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DellArte Press (formerly Harlequin Horizons)

swvaughn

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And the confusion between Harlequin Horizons and Harlequin Historicals has already begun, by no less than The New Yorker. Carole Mortimer must be beyond pissed off that The New Yorker used her Historicals cover as an illustration (probably thinking it was a Horizons book because of the double-H logo). I hope she raises holy hell.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2009/11/harlequin-hacks.html

But... this isn't supposed to happen! The Harlequin branding for Horizons is only "author-facing"! The reading public shall never know that HH books are associate with Harlequin! *cough* *vomit* *bullsh*t*
 
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BenPanced

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My first thought? But, what if they do? They said they might consider HH books that did well. We're assuming it's a false promise. But what if they pluck books out of HH? What if they pluck quite a few?
I think the question is how they're selling the dream.
 

Twizzle

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Never gonna happen.

"You're not good enough for us to pay you, but if you want to pay us and do all the hard work...maybe in a few years we'll come along, scoop up your shitty little novel we didn't want before it started making money, and take all the credit?"

Don't. Think. So.

Hope not. So hope not.

But what if. Even if they plucked just enough. And what if you weren't rejected because you weren't good enough. Why not let writers shoulder all the cost and hard work and risk instead of them and then swoop in. And why not let even more writers shoulder all the cost and hard work believing they'll swoop because hey, they really did for someone else? It would be reprehensible, yet absolutely genius business-wise--unless I'm missing something. Esp with Carina part of the mix too. Pls say I'm missing something, yes?
 
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Bubastes

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I think they'll pluck one or two and then publicize the heck out of it to get more people to fork over money.
 

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My first thought? But, what if they do? They said they might consider HH books that did well. We're assuming it's a false promise. But what if they pluck books out of HH? What if they pluck quite a few?


Even if (and I think it's a huge IF) it's not a false promise, it's still an outrageously cynical way to go about finding new authors. As things stand, anyone can submit to Harlequin, at no cost to themselves, and know that their query/partial will be read by an editor. That's how they find their new authors.

Now? New authors have to pay a minimum of $599 and then wait to see if their book emerges out of the dross before anyone at Real!Harlequin gets interested. How is this in any way an improved scenario?
 

Terie

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Even if (and I think it's a huge IF) it's not a false promise, it's still an outrageously cynical way to go about finding new authors. As things stand, anyone can submit to Harlequin, at no cost to themselves, and know that their query/partial will be read by an editor. That's how they find their new authors.

Now? New authors have to pay a minimum of $599 and then wait to see if their book emerges out of the dross before anyone at Real!Harlequin gets interested. How is this in any way an improved scenario?

You forgot the part where the manuscript might well already have been rejected, with a reference to HH in the rejection letter. :D

So they're saying that they'll reject you, point you to their vanity arm, and then string you along with the lure of your book getting picked up ... even though it's already been rejected.
 

Twizzle

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Even if (and I think it's a huge IF) it's not a false promise, it's still an outrageously cynical way to go about finding new authors. As things stand, anyone can submit to Harlequin, at no cost to themselves, and know that their query/partial will be read by an editor. That's how they find their new authors.

Now? New authors have to pay a minimum of $599 and then wait to see if their book emerges out of the dross before anyone at Real!Harlequin gets interested. How is this in any way an improved scenario?

It's not for writers. Not at all. But common sense would say it's much more lucrative for HQ. I asked on the romance board if anyone had crunched the numbers yet-I'm really curious to know.

If they spend x to take one no name from the HQ category slush and publish their title-how many HH authors can they pluck for the same cost? I've no idea what x is. And if they pluck some HH authors and/or tighten their slushpiles, how many more wanna be HQ writers will flock to HH really believing it's a viable (but expensive) way to be read by HQ?

And like I said, throw in Carina?
 

Maxinquaye

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Yeah, it was a good response. I responded there with a simile: what HH is doing is the same as approaching very sick people with snake oil that will cure them, if they only sign the check.
 

Eirin

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...

It would be reprehensible, yet absolutely genius business-wise--unless I'm missing something.

...

Short term, maybe, but not over time. Authors who are serious about working on the quality of their writing and building their careers aren't going to go the vanity route.

As the Macdonald is fond of saying: If a ms is good enough to be published by one house, it's good enough to be published by another.

Ironically, the more books HQN picks up from HH, the sooner it will become known that they are sending publishable quality manuscripts to their vanity branch. That, I'm certain, will affect the quality of the submissions they receive.
 

Mags

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Okay, say Harlequin plucks a book from HH and publishes it. The author has spent, say, $1700 to have her book published, plus whatever for marketing packages. How much will she get for an advance? As others have pointed out, other publishers will likely not want to republish an already-published book, so Harlequin will be the only game in town. What do they pay for advances? I doubt it's much more than a few thousand dollars.

The claim that the Harlequin brand is only "author-facing" is interesting. That indicates that their customer is NOT the reader, but the author. What value does the brand have for the reader if it's not distributed by Harlequin, not available for sale on the Harlequin website, and not identified as a Harlequin book in any way? It's just another self-published book of suspicious quality. It only has value as a brand to the author. That tells you all you need to know about this business model right there. They are selling to the author. And you cannot tell me that publishing professionals do not realize that is skeevy.
 

Twizzle

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Short term, maybe, but not over time. Authors who are serious about working on the quality of their writing and building their careers aren't going to go the vanity route.

.

Right now. But this is the second significant publisher to do this in just the last few months-and mention the possibility of picking up titles that do well.

And, you know, we've all been talking and wondering about how publishers will adapt and evolve in these turbulent times in order to stay profitable-e-books, etc. so it just got me wondering. That's all.

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

I'm going back to bed, I think.
 
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girlyswot

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You forgot the part where the manuscript might well already have been rejected, with a reference to HH in the rejection letter. :D

So they're saying that they'll reject you, point you to their vanity arm, and then string you along with the lure of your book getting picked up ... even though it's already been rejected.

Well, quite.

I actually don't think that self or vanity publishing is necessarily a bad thing. I don't even think it is necessarily a terrible thing for Harlequin to be doing. What I strenuously object to is the deceitful, cynical, manipulative way in which Harlequin are marketing this. If they said, 'You know, your book, like most of the ones we see is never going to sell, and we really don't think you have what it takes to become a published author even with our editorial help. But what we can do, if you like, is print up your manuscript to make it look like a real Harlequinbook, so you can give a copy to your mum,' then I actually think there would be a market for that. And even if they wanted to put up a website listing all those books in case anyone else was interested in getting a copy, that would be totally fine.

It is the lies that sicken me. The lies that suggest that if you go with Harlequin Horizons you will be a Harlequin author (except, it turns out, you won't end up with a Harlequin book.) And the lies that suggest this is a possible way in to real publishing (get a bound copy to send to an agent?!? Selling a previously-published book is somehow easier than selling an unpublished manuscript?!?!). And finally, the fact that this is going to be advertised to authors whose manuscripts are rejected totally disgusts me. If that isn't preying on the vulnerable, I don't know what is. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

You know what totally shocked me? That this initially got a positive reaction from the writers of Smart Bitches and Dear Author. Those girls are normally pretty savvy about these things.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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just a quickie: I'm hearing that the "real" HH authors (who write for Harlequin Historicals) are ticked that their "nickname" has been usurped... they had it first, and ain't too pleased that now it's being mangled, as we've already seen in the New Yorker.

I'd refer to this illegimate child by something like, HQHo...

(heh, heh)
 

JanDarby

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That this initially got a positive reaction from the writers of Smart Bitches and Dear Author. Those girls are normally pretty savvy about these things.

Yeah, but they're readers, not writers (of fiction, I mean; non-fiction has different issues, and is an area where everyone agrees that self-publishing CAN, in the right circumstances, work well).

They haven't had to hold the hand of a crying friend who just realized that they'd spent every penny they had (and quite a few they didn't) to vanity-publish a book that would never, ever sell to anyone outside their family, and that the person who'd raved about how good her book was, was actually raving about how good her money was, and everyone else was laughing at her or feeling condescending to her or thinking she was an idiot, or just plain hurting for her. Nor have they read through the substantial portion of agent/editor slush that's just plain illiterate, so as to get an idea of how the typical vanity-pubbed book will read. They're thinking of the .1% dross, and not the 99.9% okay-to-unreadable remainder.

Publishing is a difficult business, with lots of traps for the unwary, that readers don't know about or think about, because they're not at risk for them. Readers want more good books on the market, and from that point of view (given the complaint, largely unfounded I believe, but commonly heard, that editors/agents filter out good but unusual books), the idea that a company can get more of those good but unusual books into the readers' hands has to sound good. It's not that simple, of course, but there is a germ of something appealing to it. For a reader, I mean.

JD
 

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You know what totally shocked me? That this initially got a positive reaction from the writers of Smart Bitches and Dear Author. Those girls are normally pretty savvy about these things.

I got the impression that the Smart Bitches and Dear Author crowd are actually too savvy to understand the outrage. They know the publishing industry, so they may not understand why anyone else would be confused or deceived or preyed on.

From the comments at those sites (not thinking of any specific comments or commenters here), I got a slight "caveat emptor" feeling - like if anyone is deceived by what Harlequin Horizons is offering, it's their own fault for not doing more research. That to me suggests people who are now very well informed, and perhaps don't remember how naive and uninformed they may have been at one time in the past.
 

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I think that Harlequin will need to prove, or appear to prove, that its promise of plucking gems from the slush is genuine--so look to see some acquisitions from HH fairly early on. I don't expect that there will be many after that, though. Ditto for West Bow Press.

The marketing propaganda on the HH website is nothing new. Companies like AuthorHouse have been propounding it for years. Given that HH (and West Bow) are being run by AuthorHouse's parent, the tone of their websites is hardly a surprise. What I think is happening is that Author Solutions has come up with a nifty new business plan for expansion, and is busily selling the self-publishing division idea to commercial publishers everywhere. The moment is precisely right for this initiative, given the economic woes most publishers are experiencing. The prospect of propping up their bottom lines with a profitable self-publishing division must seem extra appealing right now.

It's interesting to me that so many people are suddenly up in arms about the propaganda on the HH website, and about the distinction between vanity publishing and self-publishing, when these things have been a trap for writers for YEARS. Call me cynical, but I think that many people are compartmentalizing the issue--they're upset because it's Harlequin, not because being misled about self-publishing, or whatever you want to call it, is a giant risk for ANY inexperienced new writer. Given that I've been warning writers about this since 1998, I have to say I'm not totally impressed by all the newfound indignation.

- Victoria
 

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No matter how you feel about self-publish Hh just isn't a good deal for anyone--I just don't see anything in it to support even over other AuthorSolutions brands.

I think Teddypig had the right nickname for the line: Whorizons. Hh is pimping authors, making them solicit their own sales, and taking half of what they earn.
 
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Eirin

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Right now. But this is the second significant publisher to do this in just the last few months-and mention the possibility of picking up titles that do well.

And, you know, we've all been talking and wondering about how publishers will adapt and evolve in these turbulent times in order to stay profitable-e-books, etc. so it just got me wondering. That's all.

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

I'm going back to bed, I think.

Sleeping with your tinfoil hat on can, over time, actually cause you to be more receptive. We're talking Alien Conspiracy Theories here. It says so in the disclaimer :tongue

I believe that authors who have a good story, a story that readers will pay for, will be able to find a decent place to publish it. That means the best books will go to the houses offering the authors the best terms.

HQN is an anomaly, in that it more or less has the category romance market locked up, meaning they can do pretty much as they please. Still, I don't think the HH venture will change anything much, not as long as HQN actually make more money from selling books to the reading public. If that changes, if their vanity branch becomes the more lucrative venture (and I can't imgine this happening. The world wide category market is huge), HQN will simply become yet another vanity house, and other publishers will no doubt slide in and nab their market share.
 
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CaoPaux

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It's interesting to me that so many people are suddenly up in arms about the propaganda on the HH website, and about the distinction between vanity publishing and self-publishing, when these things have been a trap for writers for YEARS. Call me cynical, but I think that many people are compartmentalizing the issue--they're upset because it's Harlequin, not because being misled about self-publishing, or whatever you want to call it, is a giant risk for ANY inexperienced new writer. Given that I've been warning writers about this since 1998, I have to say I'm not totally impressed by all the newfound indignation.

- Victoria
First they came for the ignorant, and no one cared. Then they came for the naive, and no one cared. Then they came for the idealists...
 

veinglory

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Also, this is an egregious example of the trap, more bait and more bite. I mean, we keeo objecting to PublishAmerica, and IMHO this is at least as bad if not worse.
 

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Call me cynical, but I think that many people are compartmentalizing the issue--they're upset because it's Harlequin, not because being misled about self-publishing, or whatever you want to call it, is a giant risk for ANY inexperienced new writer. Given that I've been warning writers about this since 1998, I have to say I'm not totally impressed by all the newfound indignation.

I think Victoria Strauss has gone to the very heart of this discussion (my bolding).
 

DeadlyAccurate

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It's interesting to me that so many people are suddenly up in arms about the propaganda on the HH website, and about the distinction between vanity publishing and self-publishing, when these things have been a trap for writers for YEARS. Call me cynical, but I think that many people are compartmentalizing the issue--they're upset because it's Harlequin, not because being misled about self-publishing, or whatever you want to call it, is a giant risk for ANY inexperienced new writer. Given that I've been warning writers about this since 1998, I have to say I'm not totally impressed by all the newfound indignation.

- Victoria

True, but until recently, a vanity publisher didn't have so much potential to snare so many unsuspecting authors (which is saying something considering how many customers PA, Tate, Dorrance, et al get). By using real, otherwise legitimate companies (and I'm including Thomas Nelson in this) to funnel writers toward ASI services, they're adding an air of legitimacy onto these products that the other vanity publishers never had. It's easier to say, "PublishAmerica is a vanity mill," or Tate, or Dorrance.

But Harlequin? Everyone knows they're legit. Their books are in all the stores! Of course they're not a vanity mill; what a foolish notion.

Harlequin is playing on the trust their brand name engenders to part unsuspecting writers from their money. And knowing how hard it's been to convince people that PA is a vanity mill, and a scam at that, how hard will it be to convince people that Harlequin is no better?
 

victoriastrauss

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First they came for the ignorant, and no one cared. Then they came for the naive, and no one cared. Then they came for the idealists...

No, they came for the romance writers! Never piss off a romance writer.

I agree completely that Harlequin and Nelson are unfairly playing on their names and reputations to pull writers into these new ventures. Of course they are. That's the most important marketing angle these ventures possess, and they would be crazy not to use it. I agree completely that this is a bad thing for writers.

I dislike this trend. I would like to see it die a painful death. At the same time, I can see its appeal for cash-strapped publishers. Do I think they should be yielding to the Dark Side? No. But I understand what motivates them to do so.

But as much as I'd love it if HH and West Bow disappeared, I would equally like to see self-publishing services stop playing on new writers' ignorance and vulnerability by selling them publishing mythology, overstating the possibilities for success and ignoring the downsides, and slyly trying to clean up their images by tapping into the "indie" ethos (as Author Solutions has done).

I think that one of the best things that could come out of this would be that some of the indignation over HH would carry over onto self-publishing services in general, and the misleading way that so many of them present themselves.

I'm not arguing against all self-publishing, by the way. For some writers, in some circumstances, it's the right choice. What bugs me is the "self-publishing can work for anyone!" line that so many self-pub services (and self-pub advocates) try to sell. It can't, and it doesn't. I'd love to see more honesty about that in the self-pub industry.

- Victoria