At what age do anthropomorphic animals become "too childish?"

Nogetsune

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As the title asks. I have a setting where all the characters are either anthropomorphic animals(as in the "stands on two legs and wears cloths" kind, not the "normal animals who can talk" kind.), robots or monsters, and the story I have for it would be fit for kids. However, at the same time, the story is extremely, well, dark, and features complex and touchy issues like genocide, and thus would not be appropriate for any age level below MG. However, when kids get older, certain things that where once a-ok start to become too "kiddie" Like, when your really little, Barney was awesome...but when your an older kid if you watch barney you'll get laughed at. So is there room for anthropomorphic animal stories in MG? Or do kids of that age group see such characters as "too kiddie?"

If anybody who has more experience with kidlit could tell me what the "cut off age" is for anthropomorphic animal stories, I'd be grateful!
 
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Jerboa

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Even though the Redwall books are still massively popular (and some are quite dark and plenty of adults - including me - still read them) I think they are seen as quite 'kiddy' and no publisher/agent would be interested nowadays.

A few years ago I wrote a anthropomorphic story for the YA market - I did manage to get one editor interested, but she said I had to cut it right down and make it suitable for the 7-9 age range as animal stories were no longer popular with older readers.
 

CheG

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Yes, for the most part anthropomorphic animal stories are lower Middle Grade.

Though I think Redwall is usually shelved in YA at the library.
 

ssbittner

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I grew up reading Watership Down and Ratha's Creature and Rustle in the Grass, so I'd say good animal books can easily be written for YA and adults. Whether there's any market left for it these days is harder to say. Also, I think having the animals walking around and wearing clothes is associated more with childish literature, unless it's sci fi and they're alien cat girls.
 

heza

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Here is a Goodreads list of anthropomorphic animal books (obviously, not exhaustive). There are a couple from this decade, but it mostly looks like either classics or stuff from 2000 – 2009.

I've seen a few anthro and talking animal MG books get some notice on contest blogs, etc.., but everyone also talks about what a hard sell they are.

I don't think they're impossible. I think kids still like them, but I think agents and publishers are extremely wary of them. To have a shot, I think it would need to be extremely original, high concept, engaging, and very well written. Your book is your book, you know? If the thing about it is that it's full of anthros, monsters, and robots, then you can't really take all that out. You'll just have to finish it and see how it does out in the wild.
 

CrastersBabies

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One of my all time favorite novels is Watership Down, so never. It always depends on how it is done.

Yeah, this came to mind as well. I can't imagine this being called "Kiddie." (shudder)
 

CheG

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Well I think there is a big difference between something like Watership Down or even Animal Farm which is more of an allegory? Or I don't want to say satire as that implies humor, but those were written for adults to be metaphors for larger political philosophies.

Verses something like Baby Mouse.
 

Debbie V

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There are new middle grade books called Horse Diaries and Dog Diaries - The narrator and MC is the animal in question. My daughter loves these.

Guardians of Ga'Hoole was still popular enough to spawn games and movies as early as four years ago.

I don't think a YA would fy, but the right middle grade probably would.
 

Nogetsune

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Yeah, I'd not be aiming this at the YA or adult market. I posted the thread in kids lit for a reason. The book in question would likely be slated as MG as it's too...umm...dark...for younger audiences, but not so dark as to be only suitable for adults or teens. If any of you are aware of the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon fans refer to as SATAM that's the general feel that this story has. Gloomy, industrial setting with darker elements, yet also still some comedy and brightness in the mix...The setting may be -dark-, but it's not beyond hope and the story ultimately has a very positive "things can change" type of message. The darkest parts are mainly the involvement of several forms of genocide as major plot points.

There is at least three instances of genocide, two of which happen "on screen." The first is that anthro animals are used as a sort of living energy source for the villain's technology, a process that leads to death in wholesale and is is a pretty chilling case of industrialized evil(in the TV tropes sense.) The second is that part way through the story, a major civilization that apposes the villainous faction is wiped out in a very direct militaristic way. The third is one that happens -before- the start of the story, but is one that deeply effected the protagonist and is a major plot-point despite. So considering genocide comes up three times and in three very different forms...yeah. However, at the same time, there is still comedy and comic relief characters. There is still hope...so it's suitable for children, in my mind, since there are some pretty dark Disney films and cartoons out there...
 
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veinglory

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Um, a very quick search on Amazon will show there are massive amounts of adult anthro fiction out there from publishers large and small. I bought three adult anthro novels just in the last month. Rather than make assumptions, maybe try a basic online search? It may not be the hugest genre in the world but it very clearly exists. Keywords anthropomorphic, furry etc
 
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C.bronco

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Well I think there is a big difference between something like Watership Down or even Animal Farm which is more of an allegory? Or I don't want to say satire as that implies humor, but those were written for adults to be metaphors for larger political philosophies.

Verses something like Baby Mouse.

Animal Farm, thank you. Don't fret about the market. Write what you want to write. Just do it well! Authors change the game all of the time.
 

CrastersBabies

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Um, a very quick search on Amazon will show there are massive amounts of adult anthro fiction out there from publishers large and small. I bought three adult anthro novels just in the last month. Rather than make assumptions, maybe try a basic online search? It may not be the hugest genre in the world but it very clearly exists. Keywords anthropomorphic, furry etc

Yeah. I imagine there's quite a lot in anime as well. (I am not an anime person, but I'm guessing.)
 

Evaine

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I can certainly recommend the Grandville graphic novels by Bryan Talbot, featuring Inspector LeBrock of Scotland Yard, who is a badger, and Blacksad, which are 1950s detective noir graphic novels where the main character is a black panther. Both are beautifully illustrated - and there are lots of little jokes in Grandville that link it back into the tradition with nods to Rupert the Bear and Tin Tin, and other comic characters of the 20th century.
 

RedWombat

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Anthro fiction for adults can limit you to niche "furry" publishers (some of which are fabulous and publish some of my stuff, so this is in no way a slam on them, merely an acknowledgment that it's small press) buuuuut it doesn't have to. There's been adult fantasy and SF done with anthro characters, there's at least one mystery series from the point of view of the cat and the dog--Tailchaser's Song sold a LOT of copies, and it's never shelved in children's books.

There's a lot of it in comics that are not for kids--Mouse Guard, Stuff of Legend, etc.

It's doable. It may be a slightly tougher row to hoe, but if you want to write an anthro story, do it, do it well, and don't worry about the age range too much until it's written.
 

Godyth

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... unless it's sci fi and they're alien cat girls.
Or graphic novels/manga. Lots of cat girls and other anthropomorphic characters there, and the YA age kids read those with voracious appetites! So, maybe a unique approach would do it?
 

A.P.M.

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You can always market it as a chapter book, too, if it's not too long or too dark. I'm in the same boat. I have a chapter book with talking fantasy horses that I have no idea how to sell.

I do agree with posters above, though, that right now YA is a tough sell for animal fantasies. The MG or chapter book crowd might work better. And like others have said, I have read some PHENOMENAL anthro fiction for teens and adults published by niche presses. It depends on how long your story is and how the "darkness" in it is handled.
 

Debbie V

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You can always market it as a chapter book, too, if it's not too long or too dark. I'm in the same boat. I have a chapter book with talking fantasy horses that I have no idea how to sell.

Darkness isn't the only thing that separates chapter books from YA. The chapter book reader is 8 or younger and reading independently about themes appropriate for this age. The vocabulary and sentence structures have to be comprehensible, or a little above, for the age group. The themes have to resonate with the reader to keep their interest.

Most young adults aren't interested in the topics that interest an 8 year old. Even if they both love cars, the young adult does so from the fixing and driving perspective. The 8 year old may drive a go cart, but doesn't have the responsibility of the older reader.
 
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