Word count for middle grade

Tromboli · May 12, 2013

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I did a quick search and didn't find what I was looking for. (So feel free to link to a thread)

I'm just curious, all you middle grade writers, what kind of word counts are you using/shooting for? I've seen suggestions that are all over the board. One site said 30k another 50k. I'm sure that it's probably ranged based on the ages because I get that there is a difference between chapter books, lower MG and upper MG. And I'm guessing that the standard is moving up over time (if only slightly).

I usually write YA but I'm working on a MG and am not sure what to shoot for. Thinking 45k now, seems reasonable but then I started seeing some querying writers with MGs at 60k and that made me wonder if my 45k would end up being too short.

I asked on #askagent on twitter:

@Trombolii: What's a good word count for MG? Is 40-45k okay for upper MG fantasy? I've seen some other writers at 60k. Not sure what to think. #askagent
https://twitter.com/search?q=#askagent&src=hash

@JuliaChurchill :
@Trombolii All about needs of book. You can have a short book that doesn't feel thin. #askagent

Guessing this means that 40k is short but would be okay under the right circumstances.

So what are you writing and how long is it? Any insight would be awesome.

Tromboli · May 12, 2013

And.... then I saw the sticky link above. Oops.

EDIT: Okay, I read it. Only a few things pertaining to what I'm looking for (mostly about word counts for chapter books, and reading levels/vocab etc) Someone mentioned upper MG to be "a bit more" than 35-40k, which doesn't fit what I've seen recently. So I'm still interested to hear what you think.

playground · May 12, 2013

I usually write upper MG (like 12 year old MC) and I shoot for a final word count of between 45-55k words.

SeaSerpent · May 13, 2013

I'd agree with that, although my MG sold at 43K and then gained during editing. So no, your 45K is not too short at all

Smish · May 13, 2013

Well, there's a big range in word counts for YA. The same is true for MG. Dystopians/Sci-fi/Fantasy tend to be longer, due to the world building. Contemporary MG (and YA) tends to be shorter.

In any event, 45,000 words is within the acceptable range for MG. It does seem a little short for upper-MG fantasy, but not so much so that it would be automatically rejected, I think.

Tromboli · May 13, 2013

Thanks. So shoot for more like 50? I'm not 100% sure its upper. Its got a little bit of a creepy feel, 12 yo protagonist. We'll see, I'm only at 12k now so we'll see where it goes.

Diem_Allen · May 13, 2013

Looks like you are doing your research. I have just submitted a requested MS for MG that was 72K. It all depends on the publisher, I guess.

geminirising · May 13, 2013

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum! I'm writing a solid middle MG and struggling to reach 35K.

DanielaTorre · May 13, 2013

Mine is settling (after edits) to a healthy and plump 54K Fantasy. None of my betas have complained about any chapters or scenes being unnecessary and whatnot, so I haven't really done too much clipping. I mean I have from 1st to 4th or 5th draft before I even dared show it to a beta, but you catch my meaning I hope.

The agent is right. Write as many words as you think necessary for the story to be told. Good luck. MG is super fun to write.

thelittleprince · May 14, 2013

I think it all depends. My MG, which is contemporary and I guess on the lower-mid MG spectrum, is around 27000 words. Which seems kind of short but fits the story well, I think. It used to be 35000, but I did a massive cull

Silent Rob · May 14, 2013

I tend to end up with something around 70k! But I set myself a strict target of 55k for the new project I just started.

thelittleprince · May 15, 2013

Hmmm, I did a bit of digging, and this is from the writer's digest blog.

MIDDLE GRADE

Middle grade is from 20,000 – 45,000, depending on the subject matter and age range. When writing a longer book that is aimed at 12-year-olds (and could maybe be considered “tween”), using the term “upper middle grade” is advisable. With upper middle grade, you can aim for 32,000 – 40,000 words. These are books that resemble young adult in matter and storytelling, but still tend to stick to MG themes and avoid hot-button, YA-acceptable themes such as sex, drugs and rock & roll. You can stray a little over here but not much.

With a simpler middle grade idea (Football Hero, or Jenny Jones and the Cupcake Mystery), aim lower. Shoot for 20,000 – 30,000 words.

http://www.writersdigest.com/editor...-and-childrens-books-the-definitive-post[/URL

SeaSerpent · May 15, 2013

TBH I wouldn't get too hung up about word count. Concentrate of writing the best book you can. Julia's my agent and she knows what she's talking about. Those #askagent things on twitter are packed with useful advice.

Tromboli · May 15, 2013

TheLittlePrincess I've seen that suggestion, it was one of the lower words count suggestions I saw. 40k is still low based on what I'm hearing/seeing, from the agent and from what others are writing/publishing. Thanks though, I'm guessing its evolving as we speak so older posts are out of date. MG word counts trending up...? (And I do find it weird that they say MG can go up to 45 but upper MG to 40. Do they mean 50?)

SeaSerpent thanks. Her answer just wasn't completely clear. I was guessing that meant 40k was low. I know writing what's best for the book is more important but I want an idea of what's a good length so I can plan accordingly. I tend to write short.

That being said I've got a pretty good idea now. Thanks everyone.

Smish · May 15, 2013

MG has definitely changed a lot in the past decade. To get a good feel for current MG, you really have to read a lot of it.

For the first draft, just write until you're finished. Then you can edit to add words, if necessary (and only if necessary to tell the story; not to pad it for length), or cut words if necessary (editing is always important, but especially in children's books. Kids won't hang in there through boring prose or unnecessary backstory like an adult will).

Debbie V · May 20, 2013

Mine falls on the low end at under 32,000, but all of the comments I've gotten say it doesn't need more or less. I'm sticking with it unless an agent or editor says otherwise.

rugcat · May 20, 2013

There is definitely a difference between upper and lower MG.

But despite all the blogs and books quoted, the sweet spot for upper MG these days is actually more in the range of 60-80K according to my agent.

And she reps and sells a lot of YA and MG.

Tromboli · May 21, 2013

Thanks Rugcat. I'd be surprised to see a lot of 80k MG, that's pretty insane. But I guess upper MG is marketed more like Lower YA (I know in my library upper MG is housed with YA) so it's adopting that word count range. Interesting.

Diem_Allen · May 21, 2013

Just my experience, currently have a MG MS out and about and its just over 74k no one has baulked at the count yet.

rugcat · May 21, 2013

Tromboli said:
Thanks Rugcat. I'd be surprised to see a lot of 80k MG, that's pretty insane. But I guess upper MG is marketed more like Lower YA (I know in my library upper MG is housed with YA) so it's adopting that word count range. Interesting.

Yes, 80K is really the upper limit. But just like YA and Adult is getting blurry, so is upper MG and YA.

Just offhand, Sarah Prineas' Magic Thief is around 80K

Brandon Mull's Fablehaven books, Michael Scotts's Nicholas Flamel books, and John Flanagan's Rangers Apprentice are all well over 80K

All best sellers.

Later books in the series are well over 100K, but after you have a successful series, of course, word counts become irrelevant.

Mud Mamba · May 30, 2013

Short answer: 45K is fine.

Longer answer: I still see middle grade word counts described as 30-40K (or whatever), but it seems like most of them are longer than that. I will use the ren learn site to look at word counts of recent middle grade novels, and find almost all of them to be 60K or longer. There ARE still shorter ones, including award winners, but I feel like a lot of websites need to be updated. One thing I've noted is that a lot of reading list type books, ones that thrive in schools, tend to be in the classic MG range, while trade books that thrive in bookstores are longer, so I wonder if it has to do with buyers wanting more book for their buck.

Painting with a broad brush here, but I guess the main thing is that websites and books that list the middle-grade word count ranges are now underestimating. They might say a long middle grade is 50K when the reality is that not only some, but a high percentage of middle grade books are over 60K.

suki · May 30, 2013

I think you are obsessing unnecesarily. You are coming in around 45k, and give or take 10k would probably not be an authomatic rejection in MG.

But if you just need to know, then instead of trying to generalize, why not look at specific books similar to your book?

Using the RenLearn site, you can look up the exact wordcount of published books: http://www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp?c=1

So, if you are reading in MG (which you should be doing, so as to know your market), look up some books you think are good comparatives to your book (whether in appealing to similar readers, or similar level readers) and see what their word counts are.

~suki

profen4 · May 30, 2013

I write MG and I read a lot of MG (mostly upper), and the bulk of the books I've read lately have been thick - +70K words, with some +100K words.

Good luck!

Debbie V · Jun 3, 2013

From my notes on a visit from Joanna Volpe, agent, to a local writers' group: MG minimum of 25,000 words. That's a very low minimum, probably young MG. But if it is what you have, she'll look at it.

K.L Hallam · Sep 22, 2014

I'm having such trouble. I have a MG ms (9-12 yo's) coming in at just over 26K, though as I work through it I'm trying to world build (Scifi) to increase the word count. And word counts are all over the place. Any one have experience with agents who don't mind a lower (below 40K) MG book?

Word count for middle grade

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