Fantasy without Magic

Same here! My novel is at the intersection of two dimensions--ours and what has come to be called "faerie." Despite the fantastic name and the plethora of pointy-eared folk, though, there's no magic in that other realm and I have this whole backstory about divergent evolution and biochemical processes and alternate histories and such.

Fantasy or science fiction? I go with fantasy, because that's the tradition this story seems to derive from, but it definitely has elements of both.

Just curious, but how are you qualifying "magic?" Do you mean "no people throwing fireballs" or "no unicorns/dragons/multi-headed-sea-serpents" or what?

Game of Thrones (not YA, I know) keeps mentioning magic, but other than some creepy mojo from that red priestess, the ice zombie things, and, of course, the dragons, there isn't a whole lot of overtly fantastical elements. At least, not of the spells-and-incantation variety. (I haven't read them all yet, so perhaps something happens of which I'm not aware.)

saelyn said:

Can fantasy exist without magic?

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Yes. Now that I said that, I can't think of any concrete examples. However, the following had very little magic or scientific based explanation (and thus foregoing what most consider 'magic')

1) Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin (ETA: just the 1st book, not the whole series)
2) Dragonriders of Pern, by Anne McCaffrey (if you believe it's fantasy and not science fiction)
3) Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis (okay, the White Witch and a few others use magic, but most of it's not at play. And more specifically The Horse and His Boy had zero magic)

4) Read some of the shorts on Daily Science Fiction, Beneath Ceaseless Skies or Podcastle. Lots of fantasy stories featured don't have magic.

KidCassandra said:

Fantasy or science fiction? I go with fantasy, because that's the tradition this story seems to derive from, but it definitely has elements of both.

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I think it could go either and mostly would depend on what you the author wanted it to be. McCaffrey's Dragonriders and Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials could go either way.

How about 'The Little White Horse' by Elizabeth Goudge? Not YA, but others have given adult examples, so here's the other end of the spectrum. Magical 'feel', 'special' animals, one unicorn, and the rest is people. In a really delightful setting. No way it's not 'fantasy'. Especially the baked goods.

Dragonriders of Pern is definately SF. As are the Wizard books by Christopher Stasheff.
/pedant

Ellen Kushner's Swordspoint books don't have magic, but they're definately Fantasy.

GRRM's ASOIAF definitely has magic. It's not overt and in-your-face.

Priestess birthing a shadow-thing from her cooter. Magic. (Divine or otherwise)

Faceless Men/Women = magic. They can change appearances at will. There's nothing science-minded or nature-minded about that.

Bran "warging" into his wolf. Magic.

Some kid north of the wall using a staff to ward off the white walkers? Magic.

It's a low-magic realm, but magic exists.

To the OP's question, yes, fantasy can exist w/o magic. I think of urban fantasy where you have vampires and werewolves. These don't necessarily come from a magical source. Can be genetic or otherwise.

I'd consider some of the recent King Arthur tales to be magic-free. (The one with Clive Owen had no magic)

Watership Down? Don't think that had magic.

The Princess Bride? (arguable - but Miracle Max was just an awesome guy, right?)

QUEEN OF THE TEARLING. It's not magic-free but it's a very low magic story. It's also not quite a classic fantasy but to say more would be a spoiler.

I came in here to mention THE FALSE PRINCE, but Sage beat me to it! There's also THE WINNER'S CURSE.

There's some magic in the GIRL OF FIRE AND THORNS series, but it generally takes a backseat to politics. Think a YA ASOIAF set in pseudo-Spain instead of pseudo-England.

What about 'The Scorpio Races'? Aside from the water-horses, it's pretty much a straight-up racing story.

Mark Lawrence has a couple of excellent blog posts that may be of help to you, OP:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/in-space-there-is-no-chosen-one.html

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/you-think-thats-magic-youre-using.html

His Broken Empire Trilogy isn't YA, but I thought you might find something useful in these articles.

Thunderclap Harrier said:

Mark Lawrence has a couple of excellent blog posts that may be of help to you, OP:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/in-space-there-is-no-chosen-one.html

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/you-think-thats-magic-youre-using.html

His Broken Empire Trilogy isn't YA, but I thought you might find something useful in these articles.

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And this guy writes fantasy...?

Fantasy in the sense of a secondary world where these rules he mentions exist. Not YA, mind you.

saelyn said:

What's so appealing about magic? I mean, I love it too. Is it that we want magic in our world, and thus it appeals to us in fiction?

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To me, it's all about the possibilities. Magical, supernatural, fantastic possibilities. A sense of wonder, something that surprises me.

Fantasy can exist without magic. Absolutely.

I'm not totally committed to the following, it's just what makes the most sense to me right now (I am and avid high fantasy reader, but also enjoy low fantasy. FWIW).

If there is no magic, it is still fantasy if there is an external source of power that is currently or has shaped the world or the elements of the world that is NOT technological. At that point, I'd say you crossed over into SF.

Also the Temeraire books by Naomi Novik. Dragons but no magic IIRC.

Lois McMaster Bujold has Divine powers in her Chalion books, but no other magic.

Thunderclap Harrier said:

Mark Lawrence has a couple of excellent blog posts that may be of help to you, OP:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/in-space-there-is-no-chosen-one.html

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2014/11/you-think-thats-magic-youre-using.html

His Broken Empire Trilogy isn't YA, but I thought you might find something useful in these articles.

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So if you use psi powers in your Sci-Fi, it becomes science fantasy according to this. Because they are essentially a kind of mental magic available to a chosen group. Unless there is a society where everyone is a telepath, for example.

A good example of fantasy without magic is the His Dark Materials. There are angels and gods and witches, which could be considered magic, but something you could study is the human civilization within Lyra's world.

There are numerous fantasy elements within Lyra's world: the daemons, the ice bears, and the alethiometer. Some of these things could be considered magic, but within the context of Lyra's world, they are just considered technology and aspects of everyday life. Even the Dust is given a scientific explanation, even though it deals with intangible things, like souls and sin.