M/M and sex

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arcan

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Do M/M romance books need to have explicit sex scenes? I'm writing a M/M fantasy and tend to avert being explicit...
 

gingerwoman

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I've seen publishers specifically trying to find sweet M/M.
 

Becky Black

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Nope, they don't have to. Different publishers take a range of heat levels. Check the submission guidelines always of course and see what each individual publisher wants.

Though my novels are all erotic romance I've got short stories with Dreamspinner Press and JMS Books that don't have any explicit scenes.

Now if we could just get the retailers to not default to putting M/M into the "Erotica" category even if it has nothing saucier than a snog in it. :mad:
 

Marlys

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Do what's right for your story. My first two books had explicit scenes, which I thought were necessary to illustrate how the MCs' relationships grew and changed. The third did not--my MC was a very private man, and in the context of the story it felt right for me to close the bedroom door.

Now, if you think your story would be stronger with explicit sex but you're worried about how to write it, that's a different question.
 

arcan

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I had an explicit sex scene. Not rape, but one finishes really hurt. I just cut it out, and it doesn't change much to the impact...
But so far, I don't think I haven't read a single M/M romance without at least one explicit scene...
As I don't really know how to write them I'll just won't, then, if it's not mandatory...
thanks.
 

Filigree

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Different stories will dictate how they want to be written, if you've set up strong characters. Personally, I think the world needs more non-graphic M/M romance.

I normally have no problem throwing M/M sex into the 'right' kind of story. But I'm working on a M/M/F fantasy novella that has nothing more overt than some affectionately teasing M/F afterglow scenes, strong sequel tension and kisses between the two guys, and one guy witnessing an unrelated M/M/M threesome from a distance. It's not quite a sweet romance; there is the expectation of sex, and I'll certainly write it into the sequel. But trying to get the two male MCs into bed in this book? Not happening. They've presented too many good reasons why they won't give in right away.
 

KTC

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I had an explicit sex scene. Not rape, but one finishes really hurt. I just cut it out, and it doesn't change much to the impact...
But so far, I don't think I haven't read a single M/M romance without at least one explicit scene...
As I don't really know how to write them I'll just won't, then, if it's not mandatory...
thanks.

I actually seek out the romantic/sweet ones. I'm a prude, and I love a great love story. They are out there. I don't think you would have a problem.
 

Captcha

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I asked Dreamspinner's head lady (editor in chief? Not sure what her official title is) about this a while ago and she said that all else being equal, steamier books sell better. But she didn't discourage me from submitting books with less steam, just warned me I might not get the numbers I was used to.
 

c.m.n.

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I've heard the same as Captcha. "Steamier books sell better." But I've also read that tons of readers are seeking out sweeter M/M romance.

So, write the book you want to write.
 

arcan

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If things come to it, I'll always be able to ad descriptions of the sex scenes (there are several). I think I'll also have other issues, as two of my MC have sex (more than once) not for love but kind of because they have to, and they're okay with it. I'm not sure that "free sex" is politically correct.
 

Latina Bunny

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I'm one of those readers who is looking for sweeter m/m. I was a big slash fanfiction reader, and I have tried out reading commrercial m/m romances for several years. I preferred non-erotic stuff, but since most commercial m/m are erotic, and I was so excited for LGBT romances, that I learned to just deal with the erotic content.

However, I have stopped reading commercial m/m recently because I was getting tired of the constant explicit sex. So, so tired. Some books I thought may not have explicit sex ended up having it. And, sometimes, I read m/m stories that had tons of explicit sex and barely any non-sexual plot... I'm one of those who enjoys more of the romantic feelings than the sexual act in my romances, ya know? I'm also more for non-sex-related plots or world-building than sex scenes, too.

I would be pleasantly surprised whenever I ended up with a story that turned out to be sweet. :)

I went back to slash fanfiction and still prefer slash fanfiction, since there are more sweeter material, or at least, less sex scenes, and fluffier plots I enjoyed more.

EDIT: I also am reading some LGBT YA. They tend to (for the most part) not be as explicit as adult m/m, and they focus on emotions and coming out, etc.

If things come to it, I'll always be able to ad descriptions of the sex scenes (there are several). I think I'll also have other issues, as two of my MC have sex (more than once) not for love but kind of because they have to, and they're okay with it. I'm not sure that "free sex" is politically correct.

Think about your readers in the genre you have chosen.

Okay, for me, the problem is not the free sex thing (whatever that means?), but is your story a romance? Or is it a different genre that just happens to have gay characters?

Choose one, because there's a difference between romance genre and other genres with romantic (or non-romantic) elements.
 
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arcan

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it is both romance and fantasy. The romance part is just as essential to the story as the fantasy one...

What I call "free sex" is sex without love. Just recreationnal sex.
 
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slashedkaze

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"Captive Prince" did pretty well as m/m fantasy and there is no sex in the first book, and only one scene in the second. It was self-published first but then Penguin picked it up, afaik.
 

Viridian

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Yeah, but the sexual tension in Captive Prince is through the roof. Every single scene, it feels like the characters are about to start ripping each other's clothes off.

I love Quentin Tarantino movies. He's known for bloody, shocking, and violent scenes, but strictly speaking, those scenes make up very little of the movie. It's just that every single scene feels like it's about to erupt into bloody violence. His movies are 95% people staring at each other and 5% murder.

That's what Captive Prince is. 95% Laurent and Damen staring at each other, 5% sex.

JMO, but I think sexual tension is more interesting than actual sex. I would rather read about the build-up than the mechanics.
 

Latina Bunny

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I actually seek out the romantic/sweet ones. I'm a prude, and I love a great love story. They are out there. I don't think you would have a problem.

See, the thing is, with m/m romance, how do you find the sweeter stories among the many popular steamy ones? With m/m, I don't know if the story is one of those that have lots of explicit sex or if it will just have one sex scene, etc. The steamy ones tend to be lumped in together with the less steamy ones.

At least with m/f romances, there are imprints (or genres: some historical and inspirational fiction) dedicated to various heat levels, and I have no trouble finding less explicit ones.

With m/m, I have no clue. I know some fantasy ones are more focused on the non-sexual plot, and YA LGBT stuff tends to be less explicit.

I tried looking at blurbs and covers... but they don't always help.

It also doesn't help when many Amazon and Goodreads reviews talk about how HOT HOT HOT and SEXY the leads are in bed (or various other sex places). Sex is not bad, but some comments like that makes me feel that some m/m stories feel like they are just sexdolls for the female audience.

I'm one of those who's more for internal emotions than the sex, so it's tough to find less sexual stories. (I'm not interested in sex at all in real life, but I'm still romantic.) And some m/m don't feel...romantic, either. Other stories go the other extreme and focus on the non-romantic plots (ex: epic fantasy or mystery) to the point where I am missing the romantic elements.

At least with m/f (and YA LGBT and slash fanfiction), I can easily find stories with less explicit sex, but still contain the gooey (or gentler) romance, ya know?
 
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Captcha

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See, the thing is, with m/m romance, how do you find the sweeter stories among the many popular steamy ones? With m/m, I don't know if the story is one of those that have lots of explicit sex or if it will just have one sex scene, etc. The steamy ones tend to be lumped in together with the less steamy ones.

At least with m/f romances, there are imprints (or genres: some historical and inspirational fiction) dedicated to various heat levels, and I have no trouble finding less explicit ones.

With m/m, I have no clue. I know some fantasy ones are more focused on the non-sexual plot, and YA LGBT stuff tends to be less explicit.

I tried looking at blurbs and covers... but they don't always help.

It also doesn't help when many Amazon and Goodreads reviews talk about how HOT HOT HOT and SEXY the leads are in bed (or various other sex places). Sex is not bad, but some comments like that makes me feel that some m/m stories feel like they are just sexdolls for the female audience.

I'm one of those who's more for internal emotions than the sex, so it's tough to find less sexual stories. (I'm not interested in sex at all in real life, but I'm still romantic.) And some m/m don't feel...romantic, either. Other stories go the other extreme and focus on the non-romantic plots (ex: epic fantasy or mystery) to the point where I am missing the romantic elements.

At least with m/f (and YA LGBT and slash fanfiction), I can easily find stories with less explicit sex, but still contain the gooey (or gentler) romance, ya know?

ARe has heat ratings on their books that might be useful - you could go for the ones with fewer flames. http://www.allromanceebooks.com/

I don't always agree with them, to be honest, but it's a start at least.
 

Melanii

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*jumps in thread*

Personally, I think the world needs more F/F romance.

Fixed.

Reading this thread, and others, I'm kind of curious as to why you all, and a lot of others seem to be seeking M/M a lot. It seems that's what a lot of people are looking for. I must be in the 5% seeking F/F and avoiding M/M.

With that said... I want to mention that I'm Bisexual, with more attraction to females. I feel really terrible for saying that I don't really like reading about M/M. Though something is changing about that, for some reason. I have no experience with F/F in real life, so I guess that's why I seek it out in fiction.

So um, what about M/M is so intriguing to you all? o.o
 

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I've read some F/F, and honestly, as a straight woman, it did nothing for me. Some okay stories, for sure, and I'd be happy to read more books with lesbian characters, but F/F romance, or, even more, F/F erotica? It just doesn't interest me.

I'm attracted to men. So if I'm reading something steamy, I want at least one of the group to which I'm attracted involved.

I switch back and forth between m/f and m/m pretty interchangeably. As long as there's at least one man involved, the sex of the characters is no longer an issue, and I just look for good characters doing interesting things.
 

Elly_Green

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I picked up this piece of advice somewhere in my readings about M/M versus F/F. Don't know if it helps or is accurate, but here you go:

Men, on average, are the ones most attracted to F/F and men don't read as much as women do. So, you'll see more F/F in visual pornography than between the covers of a book.

Women, on the other hand, are most attracted to M/M and since women are far more likely to enjoy their pornography in a book, that's why it is there and not so much on the tv screen.

There you have it. If I can remember from where I gleaned this "knowledge" I'll post the link, too.
 

brainstorm77

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I read and write it because I find it stimulating. I also read mf. I have my moments where I like sweet romance too. I also read horror, mystery, literary, and so on.
 

thethinker42

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Fixed.

Reading this thread, and others, I'm kind of curious as to why you all, and a lot of others seem to be seeking M/M a lot. It seems that's what a lot of people are looking for. I must be in the 5% seeking F/F and avoiding M/M.

With that said... I want to mention that I'm Bisexual, with more attraction to females. I feel really terrible for saying that I don't really like reading about M/M. Though something is changing about that, for some reason. I have no experience with F/F in real life, so I guess that's why I seek it out in fiction.

So um, what about M/M is so intriguing to you all? o.o

Ask yourself why F/F intrigues you, and there's your answer. Neither is better or worse than the other, it's just people's preferences. Whatever your answer is for F/F is probably in line with someone else's answer for M/M. Why is it so strange for us to enjoy M/M, but it's not strange for you to enjoy F/F?

FWIW, I'm a bisexual woman too, and I write F/F, M/M, bisexual, trans, menage, etc. I enjoy reading all of them, but I can definitely see why people have their preferences.
 

Melanii

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It's not strange like that, but strange that it seems more popular than F/F. I can't find decent books with F/F. ;_;

Most of the readers I meant in RL are male. Of course, NOW I don't know any reader friends. :(

Good thing this ignites me to write F/F even more!
 

Filigree

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I read and write everything: M/M, M/F, F/F, various menage and gender combos...I'm open to any romantic grouping, as long as it appears authentic.

I'm reading an urban fantasy ARC right now, from a mainstream publisher's digital imprint, featuring a M/M sweet romance. In the midst of action, horror, humor, great settings and brilliant side characters, the two leads only kiss. The serial tension can't even start until the younger man realizes he's not asexual, but demisexual to his partner. It's very charming, and the perfect antidote to lots of M/M 'insta-lust' exotic romance I've read.
 

amergina

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For the original question, non-explicit m/m in fine. There are publishers looking for it.

As for why m/m? Basically what thethinker42 said. It all comes down to preferences. I'm bi and interested in people in love, so I'll read m/f and m/m and f/f and menage and genderfluid and trans romances. I could talk about what *I* personally get out of them, but I'm not sure how much that is the same or different from other people.
 
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