The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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CaoPaux

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Medievalist said:
Ordinarily, when LS inadvertently ships flawed product, they tell you to destroy it, and they'll credit the account. I've seen many PA books that wouldn't meet even basic QA criteria, in terms of improperly applied sealant, bad cover attachment, ink spotting and other print artifacts on the cover, internal printing errors, binding issues, adhesive errors, that I wonder if they take the credit and ship the books . . .
I would think that LS would apply QA from their end as well, especially considering the small numbers involved. This oddity, in addition to the DigitalBook info, supports our suspicion that PA uses LS only for the author copies (which are so often reported to be of better quality than later shipments). For the rest of the orders through them, PA then uses whatever back-alley POD is running a special that month.
 

Renee

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Hey Mem!

T42 said:
I have been pretty busy but I wanted to stop by and let you all know that the "banished" pa authors do have a site which I cannot disclose until I have been invited too do so, but they are all fighting back and rejoicing at having freedom of speech. I have invited them all over here though and let them know that we only have the authors interest at heart and are not out to bash anyone but pa. Oh, they just opened the doors and already have 46 members that were banned from pa.

I know Mem, I got my invite! Woohoo! It's nice talkin' to my friends from "over there."

Also I am inviting people over here. So far I have refered two over here. This is the place to be for those really wanting to write..

:Sun:
 

NancyMehl

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C.J.

C.J.! :welcome:

Sorry to be a little late welcoming you. I am so happy to see you here.

The very first time I saw your picture I thought: There's someone I'd like to know. You have a very friendly face and a sweet expression.

I hope you realize that people here only want the best for you. You shouldn't have to be concerned about mistakes in your book because your publisher should have caught them. That was their job. When someone writes a book like you did, it takes a lot of guts - and it comes from the heart. Your book should have received the support it deserved.

People here are upset with the company - not with the authors (for the most part). I hope you will read through some of the past posts so that you can begin to see why some people are concerned about the kind of company PA is. We are not "bashers." That's not true - and it never was.

Also...there isn't anyone here who would EVER write any of those stupid "travis tea" phony reviews. Those "reviews" were written by someone who just wanted to stir up trouble.

Anyway....hope you stick around. We'd love to get to know you better!

Nancy
 

Tilda

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Welcome CJ!

CJWilkes said:
I happen to be the person who wrote the comment to the other author on the PA message boards. She was upset that someone attacked her book or life story in the form of a review.

Welcome CJ, I'm very happy that you made it here!:Hug2: I feel like I know a bit of you already, having visited the PAMB and your website. Yours is also one of the rare books I have actually wanted to read out of the PA books I have seen.

BTW - I am horrible with spelling, but I have much to say, so try to skip over my not being perfect.... :)

Nobody expects perfection here, because nobody is perfect:) You'll find the odd spelling freak (*points at self*), but don't let that bother you;)

The problem I have had lately is the tactics many seem to feel necessary for disuading the authors from PA. PA does have it's problems, but attacking a fellow author simply by the choice of publishers seems childish.

I, too, have a problem with those who post derogatory and nasty messages in PA writers' guestbooks and Amazon pages. I think that is incredibly childish and stupid. I can guarantee that none of the frequent posters in this thread would do such a thing. Lurkers are a different matter, we don't know who lurks here.

There are many great authors who go through PA, but as all of you have mentioned, PA is far from perfect.
Yes, my book was published through them and I have a 7 year contract. My next book might not be published through them. I think it is great that so many have their opinions and share them, because we all learn from them.

Couldn't agree with you more.

What I do not appreciate is people posting rude things about my book because of their dislike for PA. My book and PA are 2 different things. I have recieved a 1 star rating from someone and I am grateful that he was honest. I have learned so much from him. I have also recieved 1 stars for people just attempting to attack PA such as from Travis Tea which had nothing but jabber jabber... which had nothing to do with my book, but all to do with my Publishing company and their dislike for it.

Here, exactly, is the difference. The Travis Tea impostors are nothing more than trolls who need to be left simmering in their own puddle. Those who post honest one star reviews (like yours, I have read it), are a different matter. This is what I was protesting in my post; among the PA circles I have seen and sensed this fingers-in-ears-and-sing-nananaa attitude regarding these non-rude reviews as well. This is and was my point. All glowing five star reviews (that seem to be a norm in the PA writer circles) isn't the way to go and won't help you learn and mature as a writer. Those stroke the ego and feel nice, I know that, but they don't help you grow the same way as honest ones do.
(This coming from someone who used to think her first novel was the best thing since sliced bread, and who only now, writing her third book, is producing text on a publishable level.)

How do tactics such as this and those of writing hud about PA in our guestbooks, help "The Cause?"

They don't, because they're posted by trolls. I think we all agree on that.

Being a published author through PA has taught me what I want and don't want for the next go round. Being with them is educating me and also those I chat with on the boards. I hope that PA will make a huge change in the way things are run... but until then, I have an important message to share with others - in my book... "Daddy, I Forgive You."

Your message is an important one, which is why I would have loved to see it with a traditional pubber. I hope you find success with it!

My publishing company should not be a deterant to my work.

No, it shouldn't, and that's why people are here. The bad truth is that it is a deterrent. I'm honest here, I have read pretty many excerpts, stories and texts from PA authors, and the majority are far from ready for publication. Some are at a high-school writing level. Of course, I don't know how many of the errors have been produced by PA's own spell-check.
Now, your book may be very good (I haven't seen an excerpt from you, so I can't offer any points), but because it is published by a pubbing house that accepted Atlanta Nights and a book with 30 pages repeated over and over, it will have that stigma. Uncle Jim has pointed out repeatedly that there are great writers at PA, and I believe him. But this stigma will still be there, as long as PA accepts pretty much anything and won't edit for more than a spell-check.
Just to give an example...one of my best friends is currently in the publication process with her sci-fi novel. Her publisher is a traditional Christian publisher. Her text is one of the "cleanest" and best I have ever read, yet she has had to go through an incredibly intensive editing period that has not only left her, but also me, totally exhausted. Week after week of editing, correcting, rewriting, a true deep-scan of her text. That's traditional -level editing.

I am also learning through this experience that I have much to learn. I am not the best writer, but you never know, maybe one day I will.
Let's learn by educating each other, instead of trying to beat up on each other.

Which is what this thread is attempting to do:) I have learned so much personally just by lurking here.

I really hope you stay around, CJ, I have always considered you a very sweet lady whose posts at the PAMB have been a joy to read.:heart:

PS. If you want honest feedback of your texts, consider posting them either here on the appropriate board, or in one of the critting groups (such as www.critiquecircle.com).
 

Diana Hignutt

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Awards Comparison

My first novel was published by PA. I promoted that book as hard as anyone has ever promoted anything. As a result a few people read it and it was nominated for the 2004 Spectrum Award. PublishAmerica refused to provide review copies for the award committee. Needless to say...I didn't win.

Fast forward. My second novel came out in Dec. 2004. It is published by a small commercial publisher. This book earned a 2005 Spectrum Award nomination. My publisher sent the review copies when asked by the award committee. They also entered the book in the 2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Award for Science Fiction (my book is currently a finalist), and the 2005 Independent Publisher Award, or IPPY, for Science Fiction (I'm a semi-finalist). See the difference? I have chance. That's a lot more than I had with PA.

diana
 

Trepanny Peck

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Oh, this annoys me so much!

changling said:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws.

Libel. Not slander. Libel.

When a defamatory statement is made in any permanent form (including message boards), that's libel. Slander is speech only. I know that 'slander' sounds better than 'libel' as a word, but it's not correct. For that matter, what's wrong with 'defamatory' which covers both?
 
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T42 said:
Mem
Oh, they just opened the doors and already have 46 members that were banned from pa.

Sorry to barge in here, but I have a correction to make. Please, excuse me. The now 48 authors, who have joined that site of PA Banned-Its, are not all banned. Some came there to be able to 'freely' voice their concerns, seeing as PA will not address certain issues with them in an open forum and, in some cases, privately.
Many of the old timers there, are afraid to answer the new kids on the block posts, even simple questions, in fear of having PA take their replies as being in the negative. Obviouly, PA ignores the newbies questions and these folks, who have been with PA for a while and have a clean PA record, are afraid of getting themselves banned, too. So, they migrated to this new site to vent and look for answers with others who are in the same boat.

What awaits this lot, of self professed misfits, is anyone's guess. I'll just have to wait and see.
 

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Thanks for clarifying that, P.N.Y.L.. I think a board where PA authors can talk without PA dictating what they say is a great move. I hope some of them come here as well (some already are here it seems).
 

spacejock2

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(This coming from someone who used to think her first novel was the best thing since sliced bread, and who only now, writing her third book, is producing text on a publishable level.)

If we could bottle that knowledge there wouldn't be a POD publisher on the planet. I was the same - book one finished, look out world here I come. Now I'm the grizzled verteran of three books I can look back and chuckle at my early efforts. The last thing I'd want is for that unpublishable early work to be... well, published.

The truth is, after finishing your first book you want to turn from the hard work of writing to the fun of being loved and praised by everyone, and as quickly as possible. POD publishers can give you that feeling to a small degree (along with morning-after regrets), provided 'everyone' is your family & friends.

Blend instant gratification with the cachet of dealing with a 'traditional' publisher and it's no wonder people fall for the company line. This lot weren't around when I was first looking for a publisher... had they been, I'm sure I would have been interested myself.
 

astonwest

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James D. Macdonald said:
That's why they try to get people to front-load their orders with the two weeks hurry-hurry-hurry 50% offer -- better order a hundred! If people just ordered ten or twenty to see how it went ... and they saw how it went ... PA would have a hard time keeping up their averages.
Unfortunately, ten or twenty upfront may be misleading, depending on how many people you know (and maybe what kind of a salesperson you are?)...

I originally bought 21 (I bought mine way after the introductory offer, but during one of the specials where you could get 40% for an order of 21), and sold out in a month. Bought another 21 and sold out. So, unfortunately, I saw that I was able to sell these books at the price I was offering...

Granted, had I continued to buy 21 at a time, I probably would have done fine. But it was at that point where they yanked the special (and I was relegated to buying 101)...just like your corner dealer......
 

T42

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Passionate N.Y. Lady said:
Sorry to barge in here, but I have a correction to make. Please, excuse me. The now 48 authors, who have joined that site of PA Banned-Its, are not all banned. Some came there to be able to 'freely' voice their concerns, seeing as PA will not address certain issues with them in an open forum and, in some cases, privately.
No problem NY Lady. I was told that they had been banned but I also noticed last night after posting that I had seen a couple of them that are still posting at PA. (But those who have been banned now have a place to go if they didn't feel like they did before) Either way I think that it is great that they (we) have a place to vent. I have noticed that most of them just seem happy to say what they want and not get banned or treated like a child because they are voicing their opinions. I hope that they will come here and check this site out too.
Have a good day all,
Mem
 

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Hi all........

I posted yesterday and got booted. Since I am a newbie at this stuff, I have no idea why, except that I may have posted at the same time as someone else, or else I got "banned" :). Maybe someone could explain the process to this posting "idiot".

Welcome CJ of the charming smile. I do not visit the PA Boards very often , but I have seen your smile and judging by that and your restrained posts, I would think you are a great person to know.

PA already knows my name and address since I told them exactly where I was going when they became objectionable, so I have nothing to fear from their finding out. I hope they have something to fear from us as a group.

PA - question of the day - why do you have to blow your horn so loudly in your personal Press release in your new Press Room? Surely, if you were that good, media groups all over the USA and Canada (not to speak of the rest of the world) would be rushing to grant you "great" coverage?
Actually, it seems to be the other way about. It's the so-called "liars" and "bashers" who are getting the "great"
coverage.

Way to go, Jenna, Ann, Victoria, Uncle Jim, Ken, Diana and, of course, the Eds, as well as all of those others who really care about PA Authors and what their publisher does to them.

postshy
 

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spacejock2 said:
If we could bottle that knowledge there wouldn't be a POD publisher on the planet. I was the same - book one finished, look out world here I come. Now I'm the grizzled verteran of three books I can look back and chuckle at my early efforts. The last thing I'd want is for that unpublishable early work to be... well, published.

The truth is, after finishing your first book you want to turn from the hard work of writing to the fun of being loved and praised by everyone, and as quickly as possible. POD publishers can give you that feeling to a small degree (along with morning-after regrets), provided 'everyone' is your family & friends.

Blend instant gratification with the cachet of dealing with a 'traditional' publisher and it's no wonder people fall for the company line. This lot weren't around when I was first looking for a publisher... had they been, I'm sure I would have been interested myself.

My first book was POD as well. I cringe when I read parts of it. Some of it is very good. I am thinking of rewriting it with the knowledge I know now and see if it can find a traditional home.
 

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Oops...

Too many "hard" returns! Remember I am an "amateur", please, that's why I am "postshy".
 

M. Story

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New PAMB

Meandered over to Poz this morning and saw posts by a certain someone who just a few days ago wrote that they would leave the PAMB if Kevin was banned. Maybe they're waiting a month, or a year or two just to make sure he's not coming back.
emoteDisappear.gif
So much for loyal friends sticking by one another... I'm tellin' ya, it's like they're addicts hooked on [a] crack[pot publisher]. PA obviously means more to them than anything else. "Fair weather friends," is the appropriate term, I do believe.
rolleyes.gif
 

Ed Williams

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Just think about it this way...

...if PA were a legitimate publishing house they wouldn't have to work so hard at trying to convince people that they are. Ever see Random House post info advising people that they are a "traditional" publisher? Of course not, all anyone has to do is go into a bookstore and they'll discover this salient fact for themselves. And since you can't find PA books in most bookstores I guess the PR firm of Clopper, Meiners, and Prather has to do something to underwrite their "legitimacy."

Think about it, so much of what PA does is just pure bush league. Message boards for their authors, only thing is, authors can only post positive stuff, if they don't they get kicked off. An index page with a second tier celebrity referral about a TV program that's been cancelled long ago. Allowing well connected authors to die on their message boards twice. Allowing grown women to display themselves two-thirds naked. Allowing their authors to go on pointless promotional efforts when they know they're destined to fail. And worst of all, allowing their authors to go out into the literary world and discover the truth about PA in some of the most embarrassing scenarios imaginable.

Folks, we have a vanity POD run by people who will never get legitimately published. If they sense themselves going down they will pull out all the stops to get as much money out of their authors wallets as they can before the ship sinks. I am averaging 2-3 emails a day from PA authors I've never met who are upset and seeking the answers to questions that their publisher should have answered for them long ago. PA authors, listen up - having a PA book isn't a publishing credit, it's a publishing demerit. Get out, come here and begin your legitimate writing career!
 

Ed Williams

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The new PA boards...

...are horrible, if y'all haven't taken a look you need to! Talk about sanitized posts and responses, I swear that the writers of the Captain Kangeroo Show must be the censors and editors over there....
 

Gravity

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Once you've heard the truth, everything else is ju
Some days I think the pirate ship is on fire and going down by the bow, while other days I remember Barnum's Adage, and think the Stooges still have a long, healthy career of deception in front of them.

Anybody else ever feel this way? I just wish that somewhere, someone who's been through this before could come on here and say "yes, right here, when they said this, and did this, is when I knew the company was doomed". Or, conversely, "that's when I knew they were slicker than anybody thought, and they'll be doing this for years to come."

As I said, any thoughts?:crazy:

John
 
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Kevin Yarbrough

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DeePower said:
These comments don't belong here. I don't take offense to much, but I do to this. What does the size of a posterior region have to do with this discussion?

Dee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gratian Gasparri
I just caught a glimpse of it while surfing the PAMB. Setting aside the question of modesty, is it just me or is her butt like really fat?

...I have not done an up close heiny evaluation of that pic, nor do I intend to do so at the present time. Maybe if you slip Kev a fiver he might consider eyeballing it closely....
Heck Dee, if we are talking about Heiney's I will eyeball it for free. I'm a butt man.

I like ladies butt's.
I'm the butt end of jokes.
I got it, you know where, when I signed with PA.
And PA tried to have that done to me in jail when they tried to have me arrested.

Thinking about it, maybe I should be a breast man now?
 

Memphis Ed

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Ed's last post

I would like to invite everyone here to join me in congratulating Ed Williams on his last post! Ed, you are on your way to much success.

(Sorry...I've been reading too much of the PA board and got carried away.)
 

victoriastrauss

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I'm glad to see that more and more people here are putting quotation marks around "traditional" when pairing that word with "publisher" or "publishing". This inaccurate, undefined, and sometimes deliberately deceptive term is a major peeve of mine, and I'd love to see it vanish (though I'm not holding my breath).

Here's what I say about it on the updated Print on Demand page of Writer Beware:

[size=-1] "Traditional publisher" is a term of very recent origin. It was invented by the first of the author mills in order to distinguish itself from the fee-based PODs (whose business model, except for the fee, it otherwise followed very closely). The term has no meaning in the publishing industry, which by definition doesn't include vanity and self-publishing operations. ("Commercial publisher" or "trade publisher" is more appropriate.)

Unfortunately, the term has come into common usage, and you'll often see a claim of "traditional" publishing on the websites of POD-based independent publishers. T[/size][size=-1]he implication is that though they're smaller, they're essentially just like Random House or Penguin. In fact, all you can count on is that the publisher won't ask for money on contract signing. Other components of the commercial publishing model are often missing (rigorous selectivity, standard discounts, a returns policy, competitive book pricing, effective marketing), and elements absent from the commercial model are often present (nonstandard contract terms and peculiar business practices).

Publishers that call themselves traditional may simply be inexperienced. Sometimes, though, they're dishonest, and are using the label in an effort to mislead authors. While it's not an automatic red flag if a publisher proclaims itself traditional, be aware that the term doesn't have an accepted definition, and tells you nothing about how the publisher selects, produces, and markets its books.
- Victoria
[/size]
 

Aconite

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Jeff said:
Isn't there a psychological term for those who relish the action of going around exposing themselves in public?

"Exhibitionist."

The more informal term is "flasher."
 
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