The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Kevin Yarbrough

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victoriastrauss said:
Not to my knowledge. Like other scammers, PA is not going to sue--for one thing, it doesn't want to spend the money (it's expensive to go to court) and for another, it doesn't want to risk the reciprocal right of discovery. The nondisparagement clause is there to intimidate--I really doubt PA would ever try to enforce it (if it even is enforceable, which I also doubt). The Stooges might go so far as sending a threatening lawyer letter or two, in hopes the frightened author would then cave, but I'd bet money they wouldn't do more.

- Victoria
They would send more than just letters Vicotria. They would probably send a cop with a fake court order to tell you that if you don't get things straight with PublishAmerica they will serve you with the court papers and then arrest you for deceptive practice.
 

ResearchGuy

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Aconite said:
It's important to be careful with terms. A publisher who charges you to publish your book is a vanity publisher, not a POD. Many vanity publishers are POD, but some aren't, and not all POD publishers are vanity presses...
For whatever it is worth, it seems to me (and all the more so after the many-author book signing/meet&greet I attended yesterday and left with a bagful of books) that for some folks, a vanity press can be a perfectly fine choice. It depends on how they intend to market their books, reasoned choices of what to pay for and how, and understanding of limits on placement of books. For those who wish to sell locally and directly and do not want to self-publish (run a small publishing company devoted to their own books). The key is full disclosure (NOT PA's strong suit, to say the least, which is the issue here, I think) and matching expectations and intentions to the services and distribution channels provided. In short: if the author has gotten what he or she wanted and did intend to pay for, then fine all around. That is a win-win. But deceptive practices (whether in a vanity press or any other business) are not acceptable.

The squishier situation is, I think, where the publisher did provide appropriate information (at a minimum, did not deliberately hide or misstate information) but the author did not understand the implications by virtue of not asking the right questions or noodling through the mechanics of bookselling. That is a risk with any POD (iUniverse, Booklocker, AuthorHouse, whoever), I think. But PA seems beyond question to cross the line into a deceptive and deliberately uninformative or misleading promotion and contract. If the author has the option to end a POD contract and publish a new edition (new ISBN) via another POD or other means (self-publishing or a commercial publisher), then there would seem to be no room for complaint. But of course PA does not allow that--another strike against the company.

All IMHO and FWIW.

--Ken
 

Jeff

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It is not easy to rain on the parade of nice, sincere people with whom one meets from time to time in a local organization. There is a time and place for everything. That was not the time or place to raise the PA issue. "Respect the author" trumped "revile the publisher," hands down.--Ken

For me, hands down, not supporting in any manner a business that preys on others who do what I do trumps "respecting" or "reviling".

No need to make anyone feel bad. Simply, I would have chosen to walk and spend my money elsewhere.
 

Trapped in amber

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I agree Ken, and that's why this thread is about PA rather than Lulu. If PA were honest, then it wouldn't come in for the kind of criticism it does, and authors who expressly don't want to pay to be published and who are looking for commercial publishing wouldn't go near them.
 

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All the recent posts are great

and hit the nail right on the head so I won't go crazy with rep points now that I finally know how to do that:).

Uncle Jim, I found your statistics very depressing with regard to the books published by PublishAmerica. I was a statistic in February 04, although my book did not come out officially until April 04. I am also persoally responsible for bringing in at least three more victims while I thought PA was an honest-to-goodness publisher, before that reality (royalty) check. I will always be ashamed of that and so I am here now trying to atone. My own daughter has more than enough grounds for Infringement of Contract, but she has just walked away, fed-up. "Are we really making a difference?" I ask myself. Yes, we are. PA, by their own actions, are becoming more desperate.

CJ, how can you ask for numbers when, as changling says, just one poor mistreated "fool" (not calling you a fool, changling, since I am in the same boat) is justification for the fight. If you do not agree with that, just read Uncle Jim's figures and see how many more victims are being "fleeced" day by day. How can you ask for more proof? How can you need more proof after what is taking place over there right now with "he who should not be mentioned"?

I am with "changling" - even one is too many - let's go get 'em! In case you do not know who I mean - PUBLISHAMERICA

postshy (finally learning the "ins and outs" of posting).
 

Aconite

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ResearchGuy said:
For whatever it is worth, it seems to me (and all the more so after the many-author book signing/meet&greet I attended yesterday and left with a bagful of books) that for some folks, a vanity press can be a perfectly fine choice.

Some vanity presses (not many, but some) are clear about what they do and don't do for the author, and produce good looking, well made books. An author in the situation you describe could do worse than go the vanity press route under those circumstances. (Insert applicable caveat here.)
 

Alan Yee

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Jenna, I know you have deadlines looming but when you get the chance you should set up another sticky thread (locked) and list the names of PA authors that are not happy with them.

That's what I was sort of hinting at, Kevin. There would have to be evidence that they are all unique individuals, though, (i.e. distinct addresses, e-mails, etc) but I can see how this information could get into the wrong hands. Maybe a bunch of us can keep personal lists and exchange them via personal e-mail.

They would send more than just letters Vicotria. They would probably send a cop with a fake court order to tell you that if you don't get things straight with PublishAmerica they will serve you with the court papers and then arrest you for deceptive practice.

You have my warmest sympathy for that incident, which you have mentioned before. However, why didn't they try to arrest Uncle Jim and the Atlanta Nights squad? I guess it's because you were the first one. And how could they try to have you arrested for deceptive practice if money was not involved whatsoever (these "cops" actually listen to PA?) ?

Alan

P.S. Victoria! I personally thank you and Ann for keeping me and everyone else updated on shammers and scammers.
:FairydustPA ... ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

Keep up the scam-zapping (this was the closest smiley to what i wanted)!
 

Aconite

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ResearchGuy said:
"Respect the author" trumped "revile the publisher," hands down.

Respecting them doesn't have to mean buying their books, of course.

It's a delicate situation to be in. A friend published with a vanity press, and gave a reading to promote her book. It was not...um...let's just say the book had some problems. It meant a lot to her, and since she'd already published it, I said nothing about it, and just celebrated with her. But I didn't buy the book. The only reason I would have done so was because I felt pressured to do it with her there, and that felt dishonest and disrespectful to us both. YMMV.
 

robeiae

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victoriastrauss said:
There's also a guy named Johnathon Clifford who publicizes dishonest vanity publishers in the UK--his contact info is on his website.

Victoria, there seems to be a problem getting to his website; when was the last time you visited?

However, I did find this lovely page:
http://www.vanitypublishing.co.uk/

Scary!

Rob
 

postshy

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Just my opinion.......

Geez, sometimes I still screw up royally when posting! Hope it is not just me! Just as there are infiltrators on the PA Board, I am sure they are some here. The comment has been made before that certain posts are deleted so fast that the knowledge is probably brought to PA's attention from over here. It is possible that they rely on this. Please note: This is just a personal opinion and not designed to point fingers at anybody. It is just the law of averages.

Having said that - I am content to have Jenna, Victoria and Ann know who I am. They have a great deal of my personal information since I wrote to all three before ever posting on this Board. While I think that it is a great idea to know how many ex PA supporters are posting here - numbers are all that is needed. Personal information, such as e-mail addresses, should not be readily available. I agree with you, Alan, that this information could very well fall into the wrong hands. You can see what happens to people like Jenna, Ann, Dave and many others. There are many unscrupulous people out there only too happy to take advantage of the situation.

Once again, apologies, I am not pointing any fingers and this is just my opinion.

postshy
 

AC Crispin

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Phase Two Numbers

Hi, Jenna:

You asked how many authors have taken part in Phase Two to date. When I first sent out the Phase Two mailing, I counted 42 authors on the mailing list. Since that time, requests to be added keep trickling in, a couple per week. I'd guess we're up past 50 now, but I didn't count as they came in.

My guess is somewhere between 50 and 60.

And guess what? Jean Marie, everyone else...IT'S NOT TOO LATE. You can still sign up for Phase Two!

Just drop me an email to [email protected]

I have something else afoot, and am still looking for Maryland authors who are unhappy with PA and who can provide documentation of the problems they're having with PA.

If you are a Maryland resident, and fit that description, and are unhappy, write me an email.

Best,

-Ann C. Crispin
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com
Author: STORMS OF DESTINY/HarperEos
www.accrispin.com
 

Ken Schneider

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James D. Macdonald said:
Tell you the truth, I was kinda hoping they would.

And why wouldn't you want that?

Why P.A. wouldn't want it.

You would to bring the light of truth to them.

They couldn't keep the truth hidden.

That is The catch with P.A. They can't afford to have their (Name in lights) The questions would arise that they don't want to answer. If they try to answer, and lie, they can be proven wrong. If they tell the truth they are found out.

That is why they don't answer detractors and allow their author to fight the fight.

That is why they ban the truth singers to keep others in the dark.

They are full aware of their practices and that they can't bring charges against anyone.

They would be in court to answer to their scam after Uncle Jim, or anyone sang the song of why they blasphemed against the mighty author mill of POZ.
 

DTKelly

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James D. Macdonald said:
Now that we're wise to that stunt, we all know to get the cop's badge number and ask him if he really wants a suit for false arrest on his record.

I know things are different when you're 'in the moment', but you can always call 911, or call loudly into the house for you S/O to call. If they're real (which we know they're not) they won't object, and if they ask why you're calling the police you can just say that you would feel more comfortable with a uniformed cop there.

If they leave, of course get their license plate and car make, and when the real police arrive hand the info over.

Again, I know things are different 'in the moment', but real undercover police officers would not object to this. Impersonating a police officer is a crime, a felony I believe (in some states, at least).
 

writerjenn

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postshy said:
While I think that it is a great idea to know how many ex PA supporters are posting here - numbers are all that is needed. Personal information, such as e-mail addresses, should not be readily available.

Shy, you are more than correct here. There are some people that are okay with their real names out there, and there are some such as yourself, who are still stuck between that rock and hard place.

For me, I don't care if anyone knows who I am anymore. I use a nickname here but my website is clearly in my profile. PA lost my respect with that CE debacle a few years back, and then once I was banned from their board for posting a real opinion, I had nothing to lose. I've told them of my intent to stop promoting my PA book, and I've removed all references to it from my website.

I've moved on in my writing career, and I'm quite happy with my successes to date. But that doesn't mean I want PA suckering other aspiring writers. It isn't right to kill dreams. And I'll scream long and loud to let people know.

Jenn
 

J. Y. Moore

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Fortunate Fool

Well, folks, I've been reading some of the entries on this thread and finally had to open my written mouth in moral support for all the poor damned souls who succumbed to the PA flattery flap and signed. I cannot tell you how fortunate I feel at having escaped with my hide and ms intact. I sat in front of this same screen and cried for joy when I got their "...happy to inform you that PublishAmerica has decided to give 'Alien Presence' the chance it deserves". I called all my friends and relatives who had stood by me while I labored to tell them that I was actually going to be a published author! Then I received the sample contract from which negotiations were to begin. Since I had been doing research into the how-to-get-published game, the first thing I noticed when I read the contract was a paragraph stating that the publisher agreed to cause all copies to be printed "as the market demands". This threw a red flag up in my puny gray matter so I decided to try to find out how their contract compared with a sample contract I had seen in some of my research on the SFWA site. When I went to the site, the first thing I found was the Writer Beware area which took me to the PublishAmerica Hoax information, etc. - ad infinitum! My hopes were dashed as to getting published immediately. At the same time, I was fervently thankful that I had not signed anything. I sent them an e-mail declining the offer to publish, listing my reasons and siting the "Hoax" as well as the article in the Washington Post. What I received in return was a long denial of everything - in generalities that gave no specific rebuttal information. If anyone is interested in the full text, ask and ye shall receive!

Again, this is from an extremely fortunate fool! However, I now still have no idea as to whether my ms is worth publishing since it seems that they'll take anything :Shrug: that comes their way. I've decided to try for an agent instead of going straight to a publisher (although I still have some feelers out there).

Well, I'll end this rant. Sorry - I got carried away!

J. Y. Moore
 
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Gratian Gasparri

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James D. Macdonald said:
Tell you the truth, I was kinda hoping they would.

We all know the answer. Scams need to stay under the radar screen to survive. Uncle Jim is not your average PA author. He is well-connected in the publishing industry, he has a good understanding of publishing contracts, and he is respected as a writer and has a broad readership. Uncle Jim was joined by several other experienced authors who followed his lead. Thus Uncle Jim is everything Shemp desires to be.

If PA threatened Uncle Jim, the ensuing publicity would likely make it next-to-impossible for PA to continue on its present course.
 
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