The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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CJWilkes

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Could not sit back any longer....

I could not sit back any longer... I just had to jump in and share my 2 cents. I must say that AW is a very informative site in more ways than one. I am not a person to be swayed one way or another easily. Much of my feelings come from what I have experienced myself or researched. It is nice to be able to see both sides of the coin. Having said that I would like to say that I find this site to be much less of a PA bashing, site in some respects, than the corner bar. Now mind you this is just my opinion.

I like that at this site I don't have to read the "shemp, BJO, or neverending thread if I don't want to. I can find many resources and not even speak of PA if I do not like or like. I must admit that I visit many chat lines including PA boards, Corner Bar, and AW. All of these have something to offer and all of them have things I do not like. If I do not post then I have children or books to care for and write. The point is that none of the places mentioned are perfect, yet friends can be made at all three, along with experiences shared. It is sad when a person is singled out and made to look insignificant or dumb, for lack of a better word to use. I do agree that we should choose our words and thoughts carefully when discussing a specific author (person with feelings), and stop to thing of what the purpose of our posts truly are.

Experiences can suck royally -> But then turn and try to make some lemonade with those lemons :) Boob does have a point in that it is how it is said who it is directed at. This very issue is what made it difficult for me to justify coming to AW. People are not perfect and we often say dumb things that were not meant to be quoted directly all of the time. That alone makes a person intimidated. But I must say that someone taking my words and poking fun was the last straw that drew me to AW so I could retaliate.

I have learned much here and have gained many good friends here. I hope to continue, and hope you can see that Boob just has a different way of expressing his opinions, so don't be too hasty in judging him. From what I hear, he is quite soft... or is that his companion
:ROFL:
 

Ed Williams

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To me, it looks like everyone has said their piece...

...so why not let's get back to the purpose at hand? As we sit here going back and forth, there are writers out there considering PA, and we need to be giving them lots of reasons why they shouldn't...
 

CJWilkes

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Ed Williams said:
...so why not let's get back to the purpose at hand? As we sit here going back and forth, there are writers out there considering PA, and we need to be giving them lots of reasons why they shouldn't...

Amen...
 

JennaGlatzer

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Hi. Yep, we've been here before, and all I'll say is this:

No one here is purposely making fun of PA authors. If we quote something from the boards to respond to it, we're not doing it because we want to embarrass anyone. We're doing it to try to educate people. When someone says something crazy about how publishing works, or suggests a "wonderful" new way to promote their books, or encourages others to buy their own books to place them in stores on consignment, or... well, if I tried to list all the misconceptions it would take a few hundred pages... we respond here because it's the only place we can respond.

We're mostly jumping out of our shoes with the desire to take those new authors under our wing and help them understand how publishing is really supposed to work. It's not meant to humiliate. We were all new at one point. If I posted to a guitar forum with my great techniques on guitar-playing, and someone quoted me elsewhere and said, "Ack! That's not how you play bar chords! This is how you play bar chords..." maybe I'd feel stung for a second, but I'd also realize that I'm a total amateur and maybe there are others who can teach me something so I don't continue making mistakes and teaching my mistakes to others.

I'm not out to hurt anyone. If any PA authors have felt embarrassed that we've quoted them here, I hope they'll take a minute to consider our intentions and what we're accomplishing.
 

mdin

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Local author publishes book story here. It contains this interesting quote:

[font=Verdana,Arial][font=Verdana,Arial]Parault isn't holding out for a big pot of gold at the end of her late life literary rainbow. "Drinkers of the Wind" was published by a Frederick company, PublishAmerica.[/font][/font] [font=Verdana,Arial][font=Verdana,Arial]Parault said that even though she didn't have to pay for its publication, she did have to buy her own copies. She ordered only 200 and said she doesn't plan to order more.[/font][/font]
 

Aconite

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To return to topic, anyone want to start a betting pool on what Victoria might report she and Ann have been up to?
 

SeanDSchaffer

I don't know if this has already been mentioned before, but....

Does anybody notice that the PAMB's (Public ones) have one less forum? I had always noticed it, but to this moment I do not know which one is not there.

In any case, I wonder why PA would take out one of their forums for their new Public board?

(All the forums were quite popular within the old boards, so this comes as a bit of a shock to me.)


:Shrug:
 

NicoleJLeBoeuf

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Time for another Random Thought!

It's that time again... time for Another Random Thought Of Possible Interest To PA Authors!

Today's totally hypothetical question...

Why does PA's web site look so much like a Recruitment Site For Writers, rather than like a bookstore?

Why, Totally Hypothetical PA Author, I'm glad you asked! There's a very, very simple answer to that question: PA's web site looks like a recruitment site because that's exactly what it is! PA's business model relies on recruiting new authors all the time--and not on selling books to the general public.

If you've noticed that PA's web site is geared towards recruitment, then you've laid your finger on a solid piece of evidence proving that PA lies when it implies that it functions like a regular, advance-paying, royalty-paying, book-selling publisher. Do you see any mainstream, commercial publishers recruiting authors? No! They're selling books! It takes a bit of searching, generally, to find their submission guidelines.

PA's main hype is (still) "Jamie Farr published with us; so should you!" or "We pay our authors!" These are tactics geared towards attracting new authors. They aren't tactics that lead people to buy books, though. Think about it: When was the last time you bought a book on the strength of "Random House pays its authors," or, "They published famous Bill Clinton's memoirs, so everything they sell must be good!"

No, really, think about it. Why do you buy books, O Hypothetical PA Author? What causes you to buy a book by someone you've never heard of?

It's not that they're published by the same publisher who published Jamie Farr. You know that's no guarantee that you'll like the book.

It's not because you know they paid the author. That, too, is no guarantee you'll like the book. What's more, it's rather a given. You assume that when you buy a book in the bookstore, the author will get paid his or her percentage of that sale.

Why do you buy a book by an unknown author? Maybe because your friends said you'd like it. Maybe because you flipped through the first few pages and became intrigued. (This is also how editors at real publishing houses decide to buy books from new authors. They read, and get intrigued. Editors function a lot like readers that way.)

Can those things happen with a PA book? No. PA books are not physically in bookstores for you to flip through. Your friends probably haven't heard about the book... unless it's your book, and you told them.

Look, do this. Humor me, O Hypothetical PA Author, and do this one little thing. Go to the web sites of Tor, Random House, St. Martin's Press, Viking--heck, any other commercial publishing house you can think of. Do that for any publisher whom you insert into the sentence, "Hey, PA is just as legitimate as _________!" Go look at those web sites. Compare them to PA's web site.

PA's web site recruits authors. Those other publishing house's web sites, they recruit buyers of books. Which would you rather your publisher do?

And that's not even getting into the broken links you'll find if you actually try to use PA's web site to buy books...

This has been Another Random Thought of Possible Interest To PA Authors. Keep it tuned to this very channel for more Random Thoughts, to be issued whenever they occur to my addled little brain.
 

Susan Gable

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NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
It's that time again... time for Another Random Thought Of Possible Interest To PA Authors!

Today's totally hypothetical question...

Why does PA's web site look so much like a Recruitment Site For Writers, rather than like a bookstore?

This has been Another Random Thought of Possible Interest To PA Authors. Keep it tuned to this very channel for more Random Thoughts, to be issued whenever they occur to my addled little brain.

I just love this series. I hope it continues. Although, maybe someday, PA will either cease to exist or straighten up their act (yes, ever the optimist, I am) and this series can be retired. Until then, keep up the good work, Nicole!

Susan G.
 

Ed Williams

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Nicole! RTV! I love it!

....You have to schedule further programming and let us know, I can already tell that this is gonna be a lot better than CNN....

P.S. You still have the best overall name in the history of the world!

P.S.S. Tracy, is Argile really misbehaving a lot these days? Reason I ask is that he's seemed sort of subdued, you haven't had to give him a country asswhuppin' or anything here lately, have you?

P.S.S.S. Greg, great seeing you back. Re a hamdog, my friend, you're close, but a true hamdog has the following ingredients:

Hoagie roll
Foot long dog
Hamburger pattie wrapped around foot long dog
Mustard
Ketchup
Chili
Bacon
Onions
Cheese
...and topped off with a fried egg.

It is the breakfast, lunch, and dinner of champions, my friend...
 
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SeanDSchaffer

Ol' Fashioned Girl; Tracy Sutterer & Argile Stox

Ol' Fashioned Girl said:
The one that's missing is the "Original Author Message Board", which is still available from the link at the bottom "View Old Public Message Board".

Ol' Girl


Thanks for pointing that out to me, Ol' Girl. Honestly, I couldn't figure out which board was gone. I'm glad I know now.:)

The truth be known, I never knew what in the world PA meant by 'Original Author Message Board.' Unless that board was at one time the only board they had or perhaps it was for authors who'd been with PA since the beginning.
:Shrug:

Tracy Sutterer & Argile Stox said:
Sean,

They retired the original board. I think that's the one that missing.

Tracy


I'd like to thank you as well, Tracy, for confirming what Ol' Fashioned Girl said. I highly appreciate it.

:)
 

James D. Macdonald

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Ed Williams said:
I'm curious that if some self-published authors have had successful books, why can't PA authors?
Boy, take a day off and come back 100 messages later...

Anyway, the answer to this PA's author's question ...

How do you define 'success' with a self-published book?

Answer: a mainstream publisher picks it up, pays a healthy advance, and takes it national.

With a normal self-publisher, this isn't a problem. The rights are in his pocket and he can sell 'em to that mainstream publisher any time.

With the PA book there's that seven year contract. Sorry about that.
 
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Let me make this perfectly clear!

Wow! Me thinks thou does protest too much! Why would anyone want to attack Boob for speaking their mind if there isn’t truth in what they are saying? I know this is a private message board; owned and operated by a select few, who have the right to run their board anyway they see fit, and for whatever purpose, but to sit there and deny this in NOT a board, or at least a post to bash PA, is just wrong. This is a post to trash PA, annihilate it, if possible, and, though, maybe not intentionally, indirectly insult the authors who have books with them. There are many here who have come together to do PA in. I, personally, could care less. I signed on the dotted line, I’ll live with it, tough sh**, I’ll move on. Though I am not a lawyer, PA’s contract is ironclad. They have the legal loopholes in place, the law on their side, and they have the funds; made off their authors, to back them up in a court of law. Others in the past have tried to do PA in, and they are still on the merry go round of trying to get out from under. Even various media have tried taking on PA, but to no avail, as the number of authors submitting manuscripts to them has risen sharply. And, where is PA during all this? They still thriving and doing what they have always done, publishing books, good and bad. Having said that, I truly wish those of you taking on this endeavor; to bring PA to their knees, much luck.

CJ Wilkes, I know you. I like you and I admire your writing, but you mentioned The Corner Bar. Well, let me make something perfectly clear. The Corner Bar was not created to bash PA. It was solely created to assist, not insult or destroy the hopes and dreams of authors who are disappointed by PA and tied to their name for years to come. It was designed as a meeting place for them to openly express their concerns, get support, and put their creative heads and their hearts together to try to overcome all the negativity that surrounds them as PA authors because of posts such as this one, whose negative web sites flood the internet anytime someone puts in the PublishAmerica name. For those stuck in the middle, where do they go? To the PA boards for support? Nope, because those who are willing to address their concerns; honestly, are most likely to have their posts deleted and get banned. So, they come to AW seeking help. Do they get it? Yes and no, as many come away more confused. You know what happens to them? They shut down, go away from all of it, and deal with their shame and pain in solitude. The Corner Bar allows them to come in, anonymously, and share their feelings with other authors who can understand what they are going through. Authors who are teeter-tottering on the fence of indecision in their decision to sigh with PA. Unlike this particular AW post, The Corner Bar at least attempts to show the pros and cons of PA. If you haven’t been there in awhile, go and look again. There are support groups, forums to come up with ideas on how to get around the bad publicity, if that is possible, writing exercises, and forums where you just can unwind with friends.

Look, who knows what is going to happen to PA. In the meantime, what is the point of sitting around and wallowing in our own self pity for having made a mistake, for those who think that way? What the people here are trying to do, may take years and years, and for those on the sidelines, it’s time to move on. The folks at the Corner Bar are trying to make the best of a bad situation, that is all, nothing more or nothing less. There is no ulterior motive to bring PA down, or for that matter, elevate to something it is not.

Jena, if this post makes it, thank you. I fully appreciate you allowing me to speak up. I know it is not easy for you to play nurse maid to those of us who come here from PA to vent and express our thoughts on their policies. You have a wonderful site, full of useful information for up and coming authors, and I salute you for your efforts and your graciousness.
 

James D. Macdonald

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JennaGlatzer said:
... well, if I tried to list all the misconceptions it would take a few hundred pages...

We've tried to list all the misconceptions and it has taken a few hundred pages.

For Boob (and others): If what I've said has hurt you, I'm sorry. Please let me know in what way and in which post I offended, so I can do better next time.

I'm not about hurting PA authors. My goal is offering my point of view so others, who haven't signed the PA contract, can make their decisions based on all the facts.
 

Diana Hignutt

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Boob said:
There`s no need to ban people here, because if somebody has a differing opinion to you, you can just hit the ignore button right? That`s really nice, and especially welcoming. It gives me the warm fuzzies all over. And this site allows people to have their own views you say? Balderdash!

The MESSAGE that you and a few others have given me at this site is: If you do not conform to the opinions of the moral majority, we will ignore you.

Thank you very much. Oh, and this behaviour here is different from the treatment at the P.A. boards how? Boob. :Hammer:

Boob, my apologies. If it makes you feel any better, I couldn't do the ignore function thing, for the very reasons you put forth. Hey, I ain't perfect, and I'll be the first to admit that. I will listen to whatever you have to say. I may not agree with it all, but I will listen.

The real Moral Majority would be quite unhappy to know that you have included me in their ranks (LOL, sorry inside joke).

diana
 

James D. Macdonald

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Passionate N.Y. Lady said:
Even various media have tried taking on PA, but to no avail, as the number of authors submitting manuscripts to them has risen sharply.

But do we know if this is actually true, PNYL? We only have Larry's word on it, and we all know what his word is worth.
 

DaveKuzminski

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And if others don't conform to the opinions of the minority?



Sorry, but something here just isn't meshing together. It can't be both ways unless both views agree to be somewhat tolerant of the other.
 

DreamWeaver

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Aconite in response to a question by Damyeon said:
Whether or not you need an agent to get published is open to debate, but having a good agent is a good thing, so go ahead and look for one.
But remember, Damyeon, agents work on commission--you do NOT pay them upfront. If an agent asks you to pay them yourself, instead of from the advance you get when you sign a contract with the publisher, run away! There are a lot of agent scams out there, as well as publishing scams. If in doubt, asking here is a really good idea.

Best of luck!
Kris
 

DreamWeaver

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As I see it, the difference between ignoring someone and banning them is, if I put someone on ignore, that person can still post whatever they want on the board, and others can read it. A banned person cannot post at all, and therefore no one on the board can read messages from them. It's a pretty big difference.

In the few months I've been here, I've seen one person banned (and I think that might have been just from one thread, and not from the whole board--someone correct me if I'm wrong). It took a lot of rude and troll-like behavior for that person to get banned. PA seems to ban their posters wholesale, often for asking perfectly intelligent and well-thought-out, but awkward (for PA) questions.

If PA just ignored those posters, instead of banning them, they would still be read by all the other posters. Their questions and concerns would get aired; other authors could learn from what the PA-ignored authors have to say. I would be overjoyed if PA instituted an Ignore function instead of banning people. But, it would never work for them--they have too much to hide.

Kris
 
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