I prefer "asks/asked" for questions when writing, but because "say/said" is invisible, it won't register with most readers. And, in fact, despite my preference while writing, I didn't even notice in your examples.
Said Is Dead?!
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Ask/asked v says/said is a style issue tbh
Some people use one, some the other,. and yet more waver depending on flow etc
Neither is incorrect -- but if you have a lot of asks in a row it's going to stand out
Some people use one, some the other,. and yet more waver depending on flow etc
Neither is incorrect -- but if you have a lot of asks in a row it's going to stand out
I go between said and asked by feel. Most of the published authors I read seem to use both. To me, both said and asked are invisible. Even something like replied or answered won't throw me out of a story.
Even the very occasional more creative tag doesn't jar me, but if it shows up too often, I notice, and it bothers me.
Even the very occasional more creative tag doesn't jar me, but if it shows up too often, I notice, and it bothers me.
I write in deep POV a lot so I avoid any attributes whenever possible. If I have to use one, it's "said". I cringe when I see anything else in a book.
I don't use it frequently but I would never say I never use it. Sometimes said is just the best way to express it I think.
Thanks to all for answering my question regarding ask vs. say. I’d been studying a popular trilogy written in first person, present tense, with a critical eye. (Well, two eyes actually—I’m not a cyclops) I was looking for certain stylistic choices to compare/contrast with a recent manuscript of mine. I suppose that reading in such an analytical way led me to notice the little things I had ignored during the frenzied first-read. It was mostly Book 1 that had so many ‘sayings of questions’; instances in Book 2 and 3 were negligible.
I’ll wait a while before I ask about another thing I noticed: sentence fragments that raised an eyebrow. (But I do have two eyebrows!)
I’ll wait a while before I ask about another thing I noticed: sentence fragments that raised an eyebrow. (But I do have two eyebrows!)
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Ha ha, I read this old romance novel where the main male character was saying stuff like that. XD The narrator was also constantly pointing out how small and white this one girl's feet and hands were.
A novel I just read had:
'Sorry,' she apologised.
Although questions need to be asked, apologies do not need to be apologised, IMO
'Sorry,' she apologised.
Although questions need to be asked, apologies do not need to be apologised, IMO
Here's a good one—(paraphrasing) from the same trilogy I had been studying:
"GET OUT!" I exclaim.
"GET OUT!" I exclaim.
I think it was Ring Lardner who made a bit of fun with dialog tag goosing, with a line that went something like:
"Go to hell," he explained.
caw
"Go to hell," he explained.
caw
lynnswayze
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EXACTLY. Although if the writer were also an avid reader, he/she would pick up on what works and what doesn't, and the "great advice" would appear as stupid to him/her as it does to us.
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Agree completely.
Great example!
Not sure why, but I find this extremely creepy, lol.
http://www.absolutewrite.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
GACK!!! NO!! Please don't add 'interesting' words. Said is NOT dead at least not to the publishers I know. It goes back to show and not tell. Writing, "Stop," she gasped. is telling.
Her hand pressed against her chest and she shoved the words over her trembling lips. "Stop!" Is more showey. Please don't listen to whomever told you that advice. I have a feeling they are newbies and they really don't know what they are saying. \
My Editor told me to write my sentences this way:
She held the door open and pointed to the hallway. "Leave now or I call the cops."
I'll get my knuckles rapped with a ruler if I write "Leave now or I call the cops," she said. I have to leave out the she said as it isn't necessary in that we know She is talking. So I only use it if I have a sentence that is only dialogue. It really does make the sentence tighter. And it makes my knuckles happier.)
Her hand pressed against her chest and she shoved the words over her trembling lips. "Stop!" Is more showey. Please don't listen to whomever told you that advice. I have a feeling they are newbies and they really don't know what they are saying. \
My Editor told me to write my sentences this way:
She held the door open and pointed to the hallway. "Leave now or I call the cops."
I'll get my knuckles rapped with a ruler if I write "Leave now or I call the cops," she said. I have to leave out the she said as it isn't necessary in that we know She is talking. So I only use it if I have a sentence that is only dialogue. It really does make the sentence tighter. And it makes my knuckles happier.
) On a site for younger writers, I came across some bizarre writing advice. And then I saw it on another site, and another. Here's one example. And there are sites all over the Internet, telling kids that "Said Is Dead" and they should always endeavour to replace it with "more interesting words."
Yikes. I don't know whether I shouldor
Apparently it can all be traced back to vocabulary building exercises where teachers told students they should replace "said" with other verbs -- but forgot to tell them that they knew as much about writing publishable fiction as my neighbor's dog.
Sadly, some kids have taken this advice seriously. Yes, they believe this stuff! Not only have some put up "helpful" sites with lots of said bookisms, but I've even seen a reader review on Amazon where the reader asked "Hasn't this author heard of 'Said Is Dead'?" I shrieked, "No! She hasn't, because she's a professional, and she knows better!"
Seeing stuff likes this makes me appreciate the advice at this site even more.
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To me that is just a bit purple and melodramatic. Maybe she is not having a full on panic attack. Maybe she just can't keep up with someone running up the stairs. In that case, gasped is all we need to know about her respiratory state. I might add, "She doubled over and clung to the banister."
Some tags are telling, some are showing. "He opined", "he speculated", "he demanded" are telling. "Gasped" is showing. If you were there, you'd perceive that it was said with a gasp without being inside her head. Telling would be, "'Stop!' she said. She was out of breath." Tags just happen to be efficient showing instead of elaborate showing. Sometimes you want one, sometimes you want the other. If you can get your message across in one word, why not? Then use the leftover space to add more meaning instead of more color.
It was just a quick example, not meant to be critiqued. But thanks anyway. The tagline info is what my editor and my publisher have hammered into me as well as other publishers. All taglines should be avoided as they are all telly including Gasped. It goes along with demanding, screaming, crying b/c you are telling the reader she is gasping as opposed to showing her gasping. so you want to show the tagline. I use descriptive taglines probably around once every 30 pages.
The tagline info is what my editor and my publisher have hammered into me as well as other publishers. All taglines should be avoided as they are all telly including Gasped. It goes along with demanding, screaming, crying b/c you are telling the reader she is gasping as opposed to showing her gasping. so you want to show the tagline. I use descriptive taglines probably around once every 30 pages.
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Personally, I use said/says and asked/asks most of the time if a line should be attributed to a character, since they're pretty much invisible and usually the content of the dialogue is clear enough that it needs no explanation--indeed, specifying it as "so-and-so exclaimed", "so-and-so asked", "so-and-so wondered out loud", ad infinitum can be highly redundant even ignoring the distraction-factor.
From time to time, though, there are situations that require some specification. Mainly those where a literal reading of the dialogue is opposite to the intended meaning--cases where, for example, humour or sarcasm comes into play--or where the speaking character's emotional state is of some significance and where a more showing description as opposed to a tag would unnecessarily harm the flow of the scene.
(For an example:
From time to time, though, there are situations that require some specification. Mainly those where a literal reading of the dialogue is opposite to the intended meaning--cases where, for example, humour or sarcasm comes into play--or where the speaking character's emotional state is of some significance and where a more showing description as opposed to a tag would unnecessarily harm the flow of the scene.
(For an example:
- "I'm so sorry," she sneered.
- "I'm so sorry."
Well, now didn't that sound sincere? Oh, right, it didn't. Sure glad it's not me she's sneering at, though.
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Personally, I hate attributes such as "sneer". You can't sneer dialogue, just like you can't spit, bark, or ejaculate dialogue. You will sound ridiculous if you even try to sneer, spit, bark, or ejaculate dialogue, and the same goes for your characters. So if you must include something other than said or asked, at least consider if the tag is even physically possible.
I use dialogue tags sparingly and rarely use anything other than said/asked. There is the occasional line when it's appropriate to use another tag, but never to show character and emotion, or to alter the pace of the story. That should be achieved through the actual writing, not lazy, and often illogical, dialogue tags. A story that has a lot of visible dialogue tags is a sign of amateurish writing to me. As always, YMMV.
I have a hard time believing that said will ever die, but if it does, I will happily be among the first to resurrect it.
ETA: Forgot that technically you can ejaculate dialogue, so it wasn't the best example in terms of logical fallacy, but it is still among the most distracting attributes of all, because of the words other definition. You would be better off using exclaim or blurt, though I would caution against using those tags, too. I'd rather be able to hear the character exclaiming through the context and dialogue, and if the writer achieves that, then it feels redundant to have the attribute say it.
I use dialogue tags sparingly and rarely use anything other than said/asked. There is the occasional line when it's appropriate to use another tag, but never to show character and emotion, or to alter the pace of the story. That should be achieved through the actual writing, not lazy, and often illogical, dialogue tags. A story that has a lot of visible dialogue tags is a sign of amateurish writing to me. As always, YMMV.
I have a hard time believing that said will ever die, but if it does, I will happily be among the first to resurrect it.
ETA: Forgot that technically you can ejaculate dialogue, so it wasn't the best example in terms of logical fallacy, but it is still among the most distracting attributes of all, because of the words other definition. You would be better off using exclaim or blurt, though I would caution against using those tags, too. I'd rather be able to hear the character exclaiming through the context and dialogue, and if the writer achieves that, then it feels redundant to have the attribute say it.
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If you ever met a certain one of my cousins, you would no longer feel it's impossible to sneer dialogue. I assure you that she manages to do so.
Though yes, sneered words do sound ridiculous--which is exactly what said character was supposed to sound like. At least, those two seconds I imagined the character as I was writing up my example. Still, you have a point that it may not necessarily have been the best example--I'll admit that I whipped it up in a bit of a hurry.
I agree that a tag should not be used to alter flow--though can be used to preserve flow--though I disagree when it comes to emotion.
Tags should not be the main expression of emotion, certainly, but I do feel there are some (albeit few) cases where they serve well for said purpose. As you said, though, YMMV.
"Said" is the most invisible tag because it's the most neutral. "Asked" is a close second. You start using "demanded," "laughed," "blurted," and the reader forms an expectation that might contradict how the dialog flows naturally in his/her head. The result can leave the exchange feeling weird or ridiculous, even if the dialog itself is good.
The rules of description and exposition seem to work for dialog: you want the reader to focus on the forest, not the trees. Flowery language has a place, but only when used sparingly. When you do need to emphasize character actions, I tend to think they work better as beats rather than tags. For example:
John sneered. "This thread is for noobs."
Works better than:
"This thread is for noobs," John sneered.
The rules of description and exposition seem to work for dialog: you want the reader to focus on the forest, not the trees. Flowery language has a place, but only when used sparingly. When you do need to emphasize character actions, I tend to think they work better as beats rather than tags. For example:
John sneered. "This thread is for noobs."
Works better than:
"This thread is for noobs," John sneered.
Fwiw, that is not telling. Gasping is a quick inhalaton of breath, which is an action. That sentence might be perfectly appropriate in some circumstances (although I would avoid using "gasped" as a dialogue tag).
Telling is explaining or summarizing. If you wrote--
Jane was afraid of Ron and told him to stop.
--that would be telling.
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I think you can bark dialogue. No, not literally. You're not a dog. But writers are still allowed to use metaphors, right? "Barking" is yelling in a hurried, clipped way. Roaring is the opposite: yelling with a lot of vibrato. Plain yelling is somewhere in between. People probably plain old yell more than they bark or roar, which is why you should avoid "bark" unless they have a reason to yell in a particular way.
I'm not sure if you can sneer dialogue. Sneering is a facial expression, not a tone of voice. But she got her point across. I imagined a kind of nasal voice, a precise, lecture-y tone.
I'm not sure if you can sneer dialogue. Sneering is a facial expression, not a tone of voice. But she got her point across. I imagined a kind of nasal voice, a precise, lecture-y tone.
I'm an English teacher to tweens and teens, and I've run up against this SAID IS DEAD nonsense quite a bit. When I instruct my students about narratives, I give them my annotated version of Elmore Leonard's Ten Rules for Writing. They all tell me their previous teachers told them said is dead. Makes me want to tear out my hair. This is because, as other posters have noted, many English teachers are not writers by trade--seems odd, but it's true. And my colleagues balk when I tell them we should all teach kids that the only acceptable dialogue tags (IMO) are said, asked, and replied, and the last two sparingly. If you must use whispered or murmured, it better not be more than once or twice in the whole book. Dear Lord please no sighing, smiling, smirking, barking, chirping, or hissing dialogue! And for the love of God, no -ly adverbs after said. You'd think none of them ever read a novel, because they don't believe me until I show them in a published work.
Anyway, this is an uphill battle because there is so much bad writing instruction out there coming from well-meaning teachers. A distinction needs to be made between the type of words used in description and those used in the narration around dialogue. Seems like many people think that, because they read a lot of fiction, they know how to write it, and therefore how to teach it. In my experience, that's not true. Academic writing is much easier to teach than fiction writing, and the skill sets are vastly different. I had to unlearn a lot of what I thought I knew about narrative writing while writing my own novel.
Sorry if this was all tl;dr, but it hit a nerve for me.
Anyway, this is an uphill battle because there is so much bad writing instruction out there coming from well-meaning teachers. A distinction needs to be made between the type of words used in description and those used in the narration around dialogue. Seems like many people think that, because they read a lot of fiction, they know how to write it, and therefore how to teach it. In my experience, that's not true. Academic writing is much easier to teach than fiction writing, and the skill sets are vastly different. I had to unlearn a lot of what I thought I knew about narrative writing while writing my own novel.
Sorry if this was all tl;dr, but it hit a nerve for me.
Publishers see taglines such as "Stop!" she gasped. as telling. Gasped is telling if used as a tagline. Writing: She gasped. Is ok. But as a tagline, it's a no-no according to the bigwigs. Of course you can do what you want.
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As someone else pointed out above with sneer, that's NOT a tag, as you can't gasp (or sneer) dialogue.
A line wouldn't be punctuated like so -
"I hate you," she sneered,
but as
"I hate you." She sneered.
You can't sneer words. That's WHY it's not a tag, not because it's telling, but because it's going to get dinged by any one of six editors, as it's wrong.
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