Is the (fantasy) reading world ready for...

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Katalyst

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

I'd love to know what you all think.
 

Dreity

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The first book of the Nightrunner series was published in '96, so I think you're fine. :)
 

Filigree

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Tanya Huff wrote 'The Fire's Stone' in 1990, I believe, with a brilliant M/M/F relationship in a fantasy setting. Misty Lackey had her gay and bi Herald-Mages before that. Tanith Lee and Diane Duane had gay romances a decade or so earlier, still.

How graphic do you want to be? If you keep it erotic, the better erotic romance e-pubs (which I consider to be Dreamspinner, Riptide, Samhain, and Loose Id, but that's just my opinion) will probably be interested. The advantage there is that those houses are actively looking for plottier, more-complex works. If you slightly tone down the gay sex, many of the Big Five and smaller intermediate mainstream SFF houses will be interested.

My agent and I are currently doing the dance around a mms that I want to have gay sex as well as het sex, in an epic fantasy environment. She doesn't think it needs graphic sex.

M/M and LGBTQ-friendly books are making serious inroads into mainstream fantasy, so don't be afraid to join the club!
 
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Roxxsmom

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

I'd love to know what you all think.

Yes, and it has been for quite some time, since the 80s, at least.

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3948.Best_Fantasy_Books_with_Gay_Main_Characters



http://booklist.rassaku.net/

Just a few random lists of books that have same-gender romantic relationships in them, sometimes between main characters. Does this mean that no readers will be put off? Of course not. Like with anything else, you can't please everyone.

I think the bar has been raised in recent years, or at least consciousness has been. There were books being written 20 years ago that have tropes that raise some hackles today (like the tragic, gay hero), but the point is, mainstream fantasy (and SF) novels with LGBT characters are not exactly new, even if many mainstream writers still ignore them.
 
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Osulagh

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It has occurred and it's been rare for the most part comparably. Although, it can be a very rough sell to try getting it into the mainstream market.

Things have lessened in recent years and I do hope Fantasy and other genres expand into homosexuality and further. It does get boring reading about the prince rescuing the princess all the time.
 
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Katalyst

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Wow, thanks for all the examples. I guess my question should have been has it happened before and clearly it has.

Thanks guys :)
 

Marian Perera

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

In Suzy McKee Charnas's Motherlines, the heroine has relationships with women. The book was published in 1978.

ETA : Oh, I forgot. In her previous book, Walk to the End of the World, two of the main male characters were lovers. That was published in 1974.

And in Vonda N. McIntyre's Dreamsnake, several people mate in triads. On one occasion, a man propositions the hero; on another, a woman does, and when he tells her his interest would be elsewhere, she offers to wake her brother up. That book was published in 1978.
 
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Brightdreamer

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

Well, we are a shy and simple species, easily spooked by new ideas. Fortunately, as has been mentioned, this is not new territory by any means. You shouldn't induce too many heart attacks here.

I don't mean to sound rude with that, but if you honestly think that there have been no gay/bi/etc. romances in fantasy, I would suggest you read more in the genre.

Now, if your sole purpose for writing this story is to "break the barrier" and have a (gasp!) Male On Male Romance in a (yikes!) Fantasy... you might want to reconsider. Strong stories are rarely built on a "shock" - especially when it's not really so shocking anymore.
 

veinglory

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Fantasy was doing it long before romance. I have about 200 gay male fantasy genre books on my shelf. It is not in my opinion even remarkable. Not mainstream? Since when is Mercedes Lackey, Elizabeth Lynn, Fiona Patton not mainstream? When I released my own nobody,and I mean nobody was at all shocked from the manager of Barnes and Noble to the collection manager at the Turnbull library. Gay male fantasy is fast approaching being a cliche. Perhaps try the lesser represented sexual identities?
 
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Viridian

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Lynn Flewelling was my first thought as well. And Ursula De Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness (though technically the main character's love interest is agender, despite the fact he uses male pronouns).

Everything's pretty much been said here. I think we're to the point where a same-sex love interest can be included without being the focus of the story, if that's what you're asking.
 

rwm4768

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In more recent debut authors, you also have Django Wexler. One of the main characters in The Thousand Names and the Shadow Throne is a lesbian, and there's actually romance between her and another woman in the second book.

Others have mentioned the many authors that have done this. It might not be extremely popular, but plenty of authors are doing it.
 

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[In boxing announcer voice]
In the subtle corner!!!...THE WHEEL OF TIME!!! Weighing in at 14 volumes filled with implied mild lesbian activity within an all-female environment!

In the "In your face" Corner!!!....THE STEEL REMAINS AND SEQUELS!!! The relative newcomer Richard K Morgan has scored many "shock-outs" with two out of three main characters being Gay and the multiple no-holds barred sex scenes that he's known for. This isn't for the faint hearted!!!!

....ahem....

But yeah - also if you type "fantasy novels gay main character" into google, the first entry is a goodreads list of 486, mentioning most of what's been listed above.......So some google-fu training is also in order
 
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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

I'd love to know what you all think.

You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

Imagine for a minute that someone did a poll about which people like better: cherry/vanilla ice cream or strawberry ice cream. Let's say the results came back that 75% prefer strawberry.

Now let's say a group gets hold of the poll and decide that it's wrong that stores carry only strawberry ice cream simply because it sells better. So they begin a campaign to force the stores to carry equal amounts of both and they succeed.

Unfortunately, the sales figures show that strawberry ice cream sells by a 3:1 margin over cherry/vanilla. So they begin a campaign to educate the consumers. They lamblast those who like strawberry ice cream and praise those who like cherry/vanilla. Anyone who speaks up against cherry/vanilla or for strawberry are punished. Said punishment begins simply with a smear campaign, but eventually they get enough people on their side that they're able to bring financial grief to those who say they prefer strawberry.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.

It's an amazing coincidence that when you punish people for saying what they think, that you suddenly get them to say what you want to hear.
 

BethS

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

I'd love to know what you all think.

Mercedes Lackey broke that ground back in 1989 with The Last Herald-Mage trilogy (Magic's Pawn, etc.). The fantasy reading world survived it.
 
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Amadan

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Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.


Your analogy is terrible.

Vanilla and strawberry ice cream are both available; there's no shortage of either, and no one is being told they're horrible for preferring one or the other (except by people who for some reason think it's their business what flavor other people prefer).
 

Lillith1991

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You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

Imagine for a minute that someone did a poll about which people like better: cherry/vanilla ice cream or strawberry ice cream. Let's say the results came back that 75% prefer strawberry.

Now let's say a group gets hold of the poll and decide that it's wrong that stores carry only strawberry ice cream simply because it sells better. So they begin a campaign to force the stores to carry equal amounts of both and they succeed.

Unfortunately, the sales figures show that strawberry ice cream sells by a 3:1 margin over cherry/vanilla. So they begin a campaign to educate the consumers. They lamblast those who like strawberry ice cream and praise those who like cherry/vanilla. Anyone who speaks up against cherry/vanilla or for strawberry are punished. Said punishment begins simply with a smear campaign, but eventually they get enough people on their side that they're able to bring financial grief to those who say they prefer strawberry.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.

It's an amazing coincidence that when you punish people for saying what they think, that you suddenly get them to say what you want to hear.

Wow, how arroggant to assume people aren't speaking their mind in this thread. Because, you know, the hundreds possibly thousands of books from the 80's to now featuring such characters is one huge fluke? Sorry buddy boy, but the proof is in the pudding. It may not be mainstream in all cases except for some rare exceptions, but the SFF world has proven itself ready time and time again when they kept accepting such stories and talking about them.
 

WriteMinded

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Is the fantasy reading world ready for a protagonist with a same sex love interest? In this case male and male.

I'd love to know what you all think.
I'm sure it is done all the time these days. One of the MCs in my wip is in love with one of his friends, though I'd call him bi, not gay. Never occurred to me to worry about whether or not the world is ready for it.

You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

Imagine for a minute that someone did a poll about which people like better: cherry/vanilla ice cream or strawberry ice cream. Let's say the results came back that 75% prefer strawberry.

Now let's say a group gets hold of the poll and decide that it's wrong that stores carry only strawberry ice cream simply because it sells better. So they begin a campaign to force the stores to carry equal amounts of both and they succeed.

Unfortunately, the sales figures show that strawberry ice cream sells by a 3:1 margin over cherry/vanilla. So they begin a campaign to educate the consumers. They lamblast those who like strawberry ice cream and praise those who like cherry/vanilla. Anyone who speaks up against cherry/vanilla or for strawberry are punished. Said punishment begins simply with a smear campaign, but eventually they get enough people on their side that they're able to bring financial grief to those who say they prefer strawberry.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.

It's an amazing coincidence that when you punish people for saying what they think, that you suddenly get them to say what you want to hear.
You have an interesting attitude, and I wonder how you acquired it.

I never liked cherry/vanilla. :)
 

Rachel77

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As others have said, this is nothing new for the genre.

If you want more examples than have already been provided, there's this list.

And this list.

And this list.

And much more than I can possibly put here. Really, just type "fantasy novels with gay characters" into the Google search box; you'll get plenty of hits.
 

Susan Coffin

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You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

Imagine for a minute that someone did a poll about which people like better: cherry/vanilla ice cream or strawberry ice cream. Let's say the results came back that 75% prefer strawberry.

Now let's say a group gets hold of the poll and decide that it's wrong that stores carry only strawberry ice cream simply because it sells better. So they begin a campaign to force the stores to carry equal amounts of both and they succeed.

Unfortunately, the sales figures show that strawberry ice cream sells by a 3:1 margin over cherry/vanilla. So they begin a campaign to educate the consumers. They lamblast those who like strawberry ice cream and praise those who like cherry/vanilla. Anyone who speaks up against cherry/vanilla or for strawberry are punished. Said punishment begins simply with a smear campaign, but eventually they get enough people on their side that they're able to bring financial grief to those who say they prefer strawberry.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.

It's an amazing coincidence that when you punish people for saying what they think, that you suddenly get them to say what you want to hear.

What?
 

Marian Perera

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You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

These are my true thoughts:

Yes, the fantasy world is ready for a protagonist with a same-sex love interest. It's been done before, it's being done now and it will be done again.

Personally, I write fantasy romance, mostly with straight characters. But in the manuscript I'm querying, the hero's had a sexual experience with a man as well.

And I have not been coerced or punished into saying any of this.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.
If I'm reading this analogy right, strawberry ice cream is straight romance and cherry/vanilla ice cream is gay romance. Except I don't know of any readers who are being pressured, with big grins or without big grins, to read gay romance rather than straight romance. And if there's evidence that sales of gay romance are falling thanks to the coercion of readers/bookstores, I'd like to see that evidence.

Personally, I read both types of romance, so I'm not sure how that fits into the analogy.
 
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Phaeal

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Last I heard, no one was ever beaten, shamed, needlessly treated, denied civil rights or killed for preferring cherry vanilla. Maybe I've just lived a very sheltered life, dessert-wise.
 

amergina

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You seriously expect to get their true thoughts?

Imagine for a minute that someone did a poll about which people like better: cherry/vanilla ice cream or strawberry ice cream. Let's say the results came back that 75% prefer strawberry.

Now let's say a group gets hold of the poll and decide that it's wrong that stores carry only strawberry ice cream simply because it sells better. So they begin a campaign to force the stores to carry equal amounts of both and they succeed.

Unfortunately, the sales figures show that strawberry ice cream sells by a 3:1 margin over cherry/vanilla. So they begin a campaign to educate the consumers. They lamblast those who like strawberry ice cream and praise those who like cherry/vanilla. Anyone who speaks up against cherry/vanilla or for strawberry are punished. Said punishment begins simply with a smear campaign, but eventually they get enough people on their side that they're able to bring financial grief to those who say they prefer strawberry.

Eventually the polls show that 95% say they prefer cherry/vanilla ice cream over strawberry. With big grins they collect sales data from the stores and the grins fade. Strawberry ice cream now sells by a 5:1 margin over cherry/vanilla.

It's an amazing coincidence that when you punish people for saying what they think, that you suddenly get them to say what you want to hear.

What?

No, really, as the moderator of this forum, I would really like to know what are you talking about.
 

CrastersBabies

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There are already books out there with this. And many authors. Fantasy, sci-fi. It's not a matter of people being ready for it. Some never will, but those people aren't your audience, I imagine. Most will get right into it if the characters are thoughtful, rich, round and interesting.

And a quick note: try putting the whole topic in the subject line next time. Many people don't like click bait like, "Don't you hate it when.................."

(Then people have to click to see what it's about)

I almost passed this altogether and I know boarders who completely ignore subjects that do this. Get as many eyes as you can on it! :D
 
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