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Musa Publishing

Momento Mori

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LillyPu:
Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread.

Why would or should Musa comment on whether this is an unbiased thread? Just because it's a thread about them doesn't mean they have to come here and make it unbiased. That's a ridiculous thing to say.

You seem convinced that Musa are somehow getting an easy ride just because Mscelina is a long time member here. This is despite the fact that a number of posters (including myself) have made the point that any new publisher should be given 2 years to see whether they are still in business and if so, what the sales are like and what the royalty payments are like.

I'd add to that that I'm concerned that Musa are taking on too many books too quickly. I've seen the explanations given for that (and I thank Mscelina for the fact that she has taken the time to come and answer questions without flying off the handle) but it seems to me to be a recipe for trouble.

So does that satisfy you, LillyPu? Or are there other items on your blatant agenda that you feel need to be raised?

Honestly, you need to go and have a look at the other threads and learn a bit about how AW works and how publishing works before you start grinding your axe. If you're going to tear into a publisher or start insinuating things, it helps to know your terminology.

MM
 

Stacia Kane

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Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)


Lilly, some of those questions were answered; the posts I quoted went back like ten pages before my post. They were part of an ongoing discussion.

And as Terie said, Celina is recovering from surgery. Having done the same myself back in October (emergency abdominal surgery) I can assure you that the last thing I felt up to doing was having long involved internet discussions, and if anyone had demanded I do so at that time I would have found it extremely difficult. Hell, I had edits due the day after I went into the hospital and none of my editors or my agent insisted I hurry up and finish them immediately; they all considered my recovery to be my first priority and told me not to push myself too hard, and that was on a novel that had a release date set and everything with a signed contract, where the delay could well have caused the publisher(s) problems and necessitated reshuffling an entire release schedule (with all the attendant problems).


As for the unnecessary snark about "an unbiased thread"... I think perhaps an explanation of the nature of this forum is in order, since you seem unclear on it. This is a place for discussion, and any registered member can join in. Therefore many of our threads--most of them--have posts both pro and con for any given house or agent. The fact that a lot of members spoke up on the "pro" side here doesn't mean the thread is "biased" or that the forum itself is pro-Musa. It means a lot of members spoke up on the "pro" side, and that's all. It's not a recommendation from the mods or owners, it's evidence that all viewpoints are welcome here and we don't just delete posts we disagree with. What you see in this thread is members doing what we/they're supposed to, and presenting their opinions and experience.

Moderation for this thread has been no different than any other: unless a post is trolling or abusive it's allowed to stand, and our members can read all of them and make their own decisions.

Moreover, as others have said, the main reason this thread hasn't turned into some kind of big train wreck is because Musa's principal(s) haven't shown up to start calling everyone names or insisting we'll Never Work In This Town Again or whatever else, as usually happens with the train-wreck threads. The discussion has stayed civil. But it has absolutely not been just everyone cheerleading for Musa, and I honestly don't understand how you could characterize it as such after reading the entire thing. Are there perhaps a greater number of positive posts in this thread than in some others? Sure. But again, that's because more members had positive things to say, and not at all because the forum itself and everyone in it is "biased."

I suggest you visit the Index and start just reading random threads; you'll see the balance of opinions and the way discussions go, and you'll see that very often they go exactly as this one has: lots of members posting positive experiences and a few of us raising questions or concerns.


ETA: Just to clarify (lest I too be accused of bias), my post about how editors were paid was in the interest of preventing the spread of misinformation, and not an endorsement of Musa. I too have expressed reservations about them in this thread and still do not/would not recommend submitting to them, not for another year at least.
 
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bearilou

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Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out your bias here, LillyPu.

I don't get involved much in the BRBC section here at AW, allowing those more qualified to answer questions brought up. So when I was reading this thread with interest, as a potential author to submit one day, I was pleased to see some of the knowledgeable, heavy hitters on this board asking those hard questions that I see being asked of every new publisher brought to the attention of the members here.

They have asked these hard questions of someone who has also asked those same hard questions of others. Mscelina has been in there with the best of them, pressing for the same answers, pressing for the same information. She's not surprised or caught off guard that she is now being asked those very questions because she understands that's how it works here.

Are you upset that she's not melting down and tossing around accusations at the MeanGirlCrowd? Not all publishers who come on the boards do. Only the ones who don't have their ducks in a row and their business model falls apart when looked at closer. How a publisher handles the hard questions being asked is a huge indicator to many of us reading. While some of the answers may be concerning, Mscelina has said/done/reacted over nothing that has required a stronger hand in trying to get the answers because she's giving them as honestly as she can already. Several times, if I'm reading the thread right.

Or are you suggesting that because she comes from the ranks of AW that everyone should be twice as hard on her than on an unknown?
 

Catadmin

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agents take a percentage of the AUTHOR'S royalties. In e-publishing, the staff gets percentages of the HOUSE'S royalties.

The publishing house doesn't get paid royalties: it has a turnover, which can run into profit or loss depending on how many copies of each book are sold. So it can't pay its staff a percentage of its royalties. Surely?


Grain of salt and all, because I'm new to editing, but the way I understand it from what other authors / small press owners have told me.

The publisher puts an eTitle on Amazon or Smashwords or E-Distributor of your choice. That distributor pays the publisher royalties off the sales through their website, then out of those royalties, the publisher pays the bills. Hence, in epublishing, as Celina said, publishers do and can actually get royalties.

I have no idea if this is true across the board or not, though.
 

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I agree.

I have hesitations about some of the business decisions, but I have no doubt about the good intentions and honesty of the company leadership, and that puts Musa well above a lot of other publishers out there!

Yes, that's exactly the appeal of Musa Publishing, which by the way, accepted my manuscript and made an offer for my Steampunk short story on Valentines Day (Night)! Yay! :) I accepted offer on the fifteenth.

Musa's editor took only nineteen days from my submission to their offer of publication. Previous to holiday weekend, I was in contact by email with my editor every day until holiday weekend hit. In total, only five weekdays have passed waiting for contract, so I feel like Musa Publishing is on top of their game. They've made me feel welcome, while representing themselves in a professional manner, and I'm very excited to be one of their future Authors.
 
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Erm. LillyPu, are you actually READING this thread? The principal of Musa had back surgery last week and is currently 'off work'. How many more times do she and others need to say this before you stop demanding answers from her until she's back to work?

I was happy to see Ms. Summers back on the thread, but I have to agree with you and the others, Terie, and I've done the surgery thing; getting rest to speed healing is so important! I am content to wait.
 

mscelina

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Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)

Allow me to be VERY clear here--if, for some reason, you feel that Musa is getting an under the table high five from the forum, and that my house is just being jollied along, then you need to read the threads on other publishers who are similar to Musa where the opinions range from good to bad to in-between. The purpose of this thread--this forum--is not to promote one publisher over another but to make available to the writing community the experiences of other authors, editors, artists and staff regarding the operations of that press. Every publisher in the world is going to have pros and cons listed about them in B&BC, because everyone's experience is going to be different. That's the nature of the business.

But what you're accomplishing here with your insistence that there's some bias, or that your insistence that you are entitled to MY answers to YOUR questions regardless of circumstances is contributing a fat lot of nothing to the real purpose of this thread. Right now I'm so hopped up on pain meds that the outermost reaches of my prodigious vocabulary are escaping me. Just as I can't/won't make any business decisions for the next few weeks, were this any other board I would just have to grit my teeth and move on.

But I'm not going to. And while I am absolutely certain that the answers I'm about to give you will not be satisfactory (in your opinion), I am definitely coherent enough to tell you what I think.

You see--I welcome this thread. I want this thread here and I appreciate everyone's comments, whether I agree with them or not. So if you're gunning for a fight you've barked up the wrong tree.

I want writers to know what Musa is before they submit. That's why our contracts are available on our site, or our royalties breakdown. That's why I keep an eye on this thread--to make sure that if anyone has a realistic question about Musa or its operations, I can answer them--and if there's been some kind of horrible misunderstanding or problem, I can fix it. That is part of my role as the editorial director: my job requires me to step up and make Musa's position known in the publishing industry.

The part you seem incapable of comprehending right now is that I AM OFF WORK. I am not doing my job right now; my assistant editor is. I am on leave. Demanding that I answer your questions when you write them is not only rude, but it's disrespectful as well.

You've stated quite clearly throughout this thread a whole laundry list of things you will NOT do:

I don't edit for royalties

I would not submit to a publisher who paid their editors in royalties,

I don't want editors or cover artists sharing my byline, nor do I want an editor sharing my royalties for the life of my book.

All three of these things make it vividly apparent to me that Musa has absolutely nothing to offer you or your 'gold standard' when it comes to publishers. As that is the case, then this:

Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)

--becomes more puzzling to me. If Musa is getting a free ride from AW and doesn't tic off any of the little boxes in your gold standard checklist, then why are you demanding answers that have, to be frank, already been given? So let's just cut to the chase here and give the spotlight back to authors who have serious questions about agencies or publishers.

I recommend that you do your research and find the right publishing house for you and your work. You will be much happier when you're dealing with a kindred spirit than you would ever be at Musa. If that's still not good enough for you, LillyPu, you are free to email me at any time and I'll be happy to answer what I can for you. (Once I'm back at work, obviously. Until then the auto-response will still go out)

Now, if you will please excuse me, I have to go encourage my bone to regrow.
 
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The part you seem incapable of comprehending right now is that I AM OFF WORK.

Well, in the poster's defense, you seem to be having trouble comprehending that as well... You keep posting!

You said you were going to try to find someone to monitor the thread, so I don't think it's totally out of line for people to continue asking questions. And you keep responding, so, again, why wouldn't people keep asking? I didn't see any time frames included with the original questions, no suggestion that the questions be answered immediately... I saw a request that the thread return to its original topic instead of repeatedly slamming a newcomer with his/her violations of board conventions.

Really, what I saw LilyPu say was pretty much exactly what you shot back to her when you wrote "So let's just cut to the chase here and give the spotlight back to authors who have serious questions about agencies or publishers." Both posts have a bit of attitude, but you're both saying 'let's stop talking about LilyPu and go back to the main topic.' Which is a bit weird from you, again, since you follow up by saying that you're off work. I'don't think LilyPu is incapable of comprehension, rude, or disrespectful for thinking that this thread should at least be on topic while we wait patiently for questions to be answered as there's someone available.

I think it IS hard, in this case, to separate the individual from the company, and the posts that you're making as an AW member from those you're making as a representative of Musa. For example, if an AW poster tries to direct a B&BC thread in a certain direction, as you did when you suggested we get back to certain questions, I think it's totally kosher. But if a publisher under the spotlight starts trying to direct the conversation, alarm bells go off. I'm not saying I think we should continue down the derail, I'm just saying it's a weird situation we're looking at. Similarly, if an AW poster uses their recovery time to get caught up on some AW reading, that seems like a relaxing way to fill the long hours. But you're trying not to be here, since it's part of your job. Fair enough, but hard for others to see the finer distinctions.

And, honestly, for an enterprise as ambitious as yours, it's also a bit worrying that you're having health concerns. Again, I'm full of sympathy and understanding for an AW member who has a health issue. These things happen to everyone, we need to take care of ourselves, etc. And those are genuine sentiments. But when you're posting here as a publisher, it's another alarm bell. I'm not saying Musa is a one-person show, (it had damn well better not be with that publication schedule!), but there's a person in charge, and that person is off. There's apparently no one able to completely fill that person's shoes, since no one has come to fill in on the message board duties. What other duties may not be being met?

It feels like kicking you when you're down, to say that, and that's absolutely not what I mean to do. But in the interests of an impartial examination of the health of the company, I feel like it's a factor that should be examined.

For clarity, I AM NOT ASKING FOR AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO THIS. I'm not necessarily asking for a response at all: it's great when publishers come by to engage in conversation, but my understanding of this board is that it's primarily for writers to share information with each other, not to establish a Q&A session with the publisher. If there is someone else at Musa who's able to take over the responses, I'd love to hear from them. If there isn't, I understand. I don't think it makes sense to close down the thread just because one person is unwell. I hope you agree.
 

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My two cents ladys and gents. I've read just about every post on most every publisher here on this forum over the past few years and must say that Celina was asked the same hard questions about Musa that every other pub was asked. She responded quite well to them all and was quizzed further and she responded further...quite well.
 

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I don't think anyone will accuse me of being soft on mscelina, since she and I have had it out on other topics, and I've also expressed skepticism about Musa here in this thread. But I don't see where anyone thinks she's getting an easy ride here or that she's being treated with kid gloves, and frankly, some of the posts here are taking on the character of ax-grinding. I don't see that any questions haven't been answered: some people don't like the answers, and that's fine, but then you want everyone to agree that this is wrong and bad and if everyone does not unite to burn Musa to the ground (figuratively), it's a "biased" thread? C'mon.
 

Dave Hardy

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And, honestly, for an enterprise as ambitious as yours, it's also a bit worrying that you're having health concerns. Again, I'm full of sympathy and understanding for an AW member who has a health issue. These things happen to everyone, we need to take care of ourselves, etc. And those are genuine sentiments. But when you're posting here as a publisher, it's another alarm bell. I'm not saying Musa is a one-person show, (it had damn well better not be with that publication schedule!), but there's a person in charge, and that person is off. There's apparently no one able to completely fill that person's shoes, since no one has come to fill in on the message board duties. What other duties may not be being met?

I am not a Musa employee, so I can't say what goes on in the inner workings of Musa.
The Musa yahoo group pretty much runs without Celina being directly involved, Dominique keeps us all to date. I've had a few minor bits of business which have been handled efficiently. There's a new title out from Urania (the specfic imprint). It's pretty much business as usual, at least as far as I can tell.
 

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And, honestly, for an enterprise as ambitious as yours, it's also a bit worrying that you're having health concerns. Again, I'm full of sympathy and understanding for an AW member who has a health issue. These things happen to everyone, we need to take care of ourselves, etc. And those are genuine sentiments. But when you're posting here as a publisher, it's another alarm bell. I'm not saying Musa is a one-person show, (it had damn well better not be with that publication schedule!), but there's a person in charge, and that person is off. There's apparently no one able to completely fill that person's shoes, since no one has come to fill in on the message board duties. What other duties may not be being met?

This strikes me as really crass, actually. As has been described extensively in this thread, Musa is NOT a one-person operation. Celina checks in here even while she's on bedrest both to be helpful and, I imagine, to let her hair down a bit. She's a long-time alumna and there is in fact an "Entertain Celina" party thread in one of the other boards.

The idea that because she's still frequenting AW that nothing else at Musa is getting done seems both like a healthy dose of projection and malicious assumptions.

If you wanted to know who's filling in for her at Musa, you could have just asked.
 

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For the record, I have zero affiliation with Musa, either by way of employment or writing submission.
 

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Maybe no one else has come here to post because they are busy doing other Musa-related things that rank a little higher on the priorities ladder?

Ditto.

From my vantage point, it's been business as usual in Celina's absence. Promo, editing, communication, scheduling, etc. have all continued without a hitch.
 

Deleted member 42

And, honestly, for an enterprise as ambitious as yours, it's also a bit worrying that you're having health concerns. Again, I'm full of sympathy and understanding for an AW member who has a health issue.

You know, at most publishers, you wouldn't be told that principles were unwell, or had had surgery.

In other words, you've just put Musa in a damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-don't position.

It's not like anyone is forcing you or anyone else to submit.

Frankly, at least one of the posters in this thread is asking really stupid questions—questions that were answered previously--and has shown very little sign of getting a clue-stick.

Is Musa engaged in the risky business of publishing?

Yes.

Are they a royalty-paying no-advance epublisher? And has that been made clear, with the hazards that involves?

Yes.

Do they have an exceedingly ambitious, some would say even say, unrealistic, schedule?

Yes.

Has that been said—repeatedly—by people who actually work in publishing or have extensive experience in production in their past—Yes.

Repeatedly—by me, Old Hack, Priceless1, and possibly others.

Honestly, at this point, it's sort of a submit-or-do-not-submit issue. And again, frankly, it's foolish to judge a publisher (or an agent or an editor) by flickering bits of phosphorous.

Go look at their books. Can you buy them? Do you know people who have bought them? Can you find reviews? Where and by whom? How do the books look and read? What do their authors say?

If it's too early to tell, then you're back in the same wait-and-see position, and there's not much more to be done.

:deadhorse:
 

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This strikes me as really crass, actually. As has been described extensively in this thread, Musa is NOT a one-person operation. Celina checks in here even while she's on bedrest both to be helpful and, I imagine, to let her hair down a bit. She's a long-time alumna and there is in fact an "Entertain Celina" party thread in one of the other boards.

The idea that because she's still frequenting AW that nothing else at Musa is getting done seems both like a healthy dose of projection and malicious assumptions.

If you wanted to know who's filling in for her at Musa, you could have just asked.

Slow down. For me, the fact that there's an "Entertain Celina" thread is evidence of her popularity as an AW Member. That's excellent. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER MUSA IS A SAFE PLACE TO SEND A MANUSCRIPT.

And I'm not at all assuming that nothing's getting done at Musa. I'm just saying that it's one more area of concern. Any time the person in charge of an organization is out of service, that's a concern. It has nothing to do with whether that person is Celina or somebody else.

In terms of your suggestion that I just ask the question - then wouldn't I, too, be considered incapable of comprehension? Mscelina is off work. No questions for a while. Pay attention.
 

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You know, at most publishers, you wouldn't be told that principles were unwell, or had had surgery.

In other words, you've just put Musa in a damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-don't position.

I was aware of that awkwardness, which is why I tried to word it as carefully as possible. I agree, there's no right answer for the problem. But for me, it's not a question of "damning" anybody. It's an awkward situation that, for me, raises another red flag. It seemed like it was an elephant in the room, but apparently not for everybody!

It's not like anyone is forcing you or anyone else to submit.

I don't understand this point. No one's being forced to submit to any of the publishers in this forum, are they? We discuss relative merits of publishers precisely because we are not forced to submit to anyone - we have a choice, and want to make sure it's an intelligent one.


Honestly, at this point, it's sort of a submit-or-do-not-submit issue. And again, frankly, it's foolish to judge a publisher (or an agent or an editor) by flickering bits of phosphorous.

Go look at their books. Can you buy them? Do you know people who have bought them? Can you find reviews? Where and by whom? How do the books look and read? What do their authors say?

If it's too early to tell, then you're back in the same wait-and-see position, and there's not much more to be done.

Again, this line of argument seems to be dismissing the importance of the B&BC forum almost completely. I think there's a lot that can be learned from doing the things you suggest, but there's also lots to be learned from discussing things with other writers in settings like this one. I guess you're saying that this thread has become redundant, and I'm inclined to agree, but I think that's true of many of the B&BC threads for publishers that have gotten a lot of attention in our little corner of the publishing world. Is there something different about this thread?
 

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I feel that, if anything, Musa is getting a harder ride than other publishers. I feel they may be under closer scrutiny BECAUSE of the AW connection. Seems, at times, like a pile on.

I received my Musa galley for my upcoming Sebastian's Poet yesterday. I'm thrilled with the quality.

You should always question everything...but it seems to me some are popping in here out of nowhere. This particular forum is excellent at saving people and bringing them into the AW fold. But it also attracks the odd troublemaker.
 

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Slow down. For me, the fact that there's an "Entertain Celina" thread is evidence of her popularity as an AW Member. That's excellent. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER MUSA IS A SAFE PLACE TO SEND A MANUSCRIPT.

And I'm not at all assuming that nothing's getting done at Musa. I'm just saying that it's one more area of concern. Any time the person in charge of an organization is out of service, that's a concern. It has nothing to do with whether that person is Celina or somebody else.

In terms of your suggestion that I just ask the question - then wouldn't I, too, be considered incapable of comprehension? Mscelina is off work. No questions for a while. Pay attention.

"Slow down"? "Pay attention"? Really? Please, patronize me some more.

No, the entertain Celina thread has no relevance to Musa's publishing. That was my point. The fact that she is on AW for her own personal reasons, not because they couldn't find anyone at Musa ever at all to cover her responsibilities.

If you're going to be snide to others, you can at least make sure you're not conflating the issues.
 

Deleted member 42

Slow down. For me, the fact that there's an "Entertain Celina" thread is evidence of her popularity as an AW Member. That's excellent. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER MUSA IS A SAFE PLACE TO SEND A MANUSCRIPT.

Actually, no, if you read the screen, you'll note that that thread was split out from this thread—by me—to remove the socializing from a board where it really wasn't appropriate.
 

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Actually, no, if you read the screen, you'll note that that thread was split out from this thread—by me—to remove the socializing from a board where it really wasn't appropriate.

That's what I said - I said there's no point in referring to that thread, as RKLipman did, because that thread has nothing to do with Musa. I feel like you're agreeing with me while saying "no".
 

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"Slow down"? "Pay attention"? Really? Please, patronize me some more.

No, the entertain Celina thread has no relevance to Musa's publishing. That was my point. The fact that she is on AW for her own personal reasons, not because they couldn't find anyone at Musa ever at all to cover her responsibilities.

If you're going to be snide to others, you can at least make sure you're not conflating the issues.

I'm not following your argument at all. You call my behaviour crass, mistakenly accuse me of something that I have not, in fact, assumed, and based on that say that I'm displaying a "healthy dose of projection and malicious assumptions," and you feel that "slow down" is excessive in response?

What are the issues, here? What's being conflated?
 

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Chill out, people. If you've got a personal beef with each other, take it to PM, okay?