Freelance Editor Question

Alzarakh

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Hi all, first off, no offense to any editors out there.

I'm looking into hiring a freelance editor and have found a few that look promising but Im starting to notice a trend. Do editors mean to blow smoke up your butt to make you feel all warm and fuzzy? As this is my first go at actual writing it seems odd that more than a few people would say it was really good. (Story wise, I sent them a sample) Maybe it is, but is this just a sales pitch to make me lean more towards them?

Im just leery about spending the 3-500$ to get it properly edited and not actually having the editor engaged in the story.
 

T Robinson

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If you are only paying $300 to $500, you are probably not getting a balanced critique. If there was nothing they saw to fix in the sample, why should you give them any money? Think about it.

Also, you don't give enough detail to know what advice you need. How many words? Have you taken it as far as you are capable of taking it?

Balanced, in a sample, means they tell you what's wrong........and explain why. Also saying what is right. In either case, it will be one person's opinion.

Go to the EFA and look at some of the average prices, read some of the reviews. The price you mentioned is not enough to warm up the word processor for some of the professional editors on the site. Some of the threads here go into much more detail. Check them out.
 

Kerosene

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Some do, some don't. It is a job, and if they don't please you, there's a chance they won't get the job or a return customer. Many writers take critics' comments as an offense. So, some editors throw underhanded--I suggest you avoid them if a lot of what they say is to rub your belly and call you a good writer. You're not paying them to be your support.

Though, $500 isn't going to get you far, or with a decent editor. I'm guessing this is a long piece, 75K+ perhaps? Novel?
Sure, there's a lot of people out there offering their services for less than that, but I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. For an good editor, depending on what type of editing, the size of the work, and how much there is to be done, expect upwards of $1000 and nearing $4000. You do get what you pay for with editing.
 

Alzarakh

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I should have added some more details. 68k words. They all range in price bit those are the editors I can afford at this time. I had one offer to work at $3/hr but the sample I got back wasn't well done. The one I like cleaned up the grammar/punctuation and made decent notes on what needed fixing. The best one was around the $1000 mark but thats way out of my budget.

Aaaand honestly I haven't gone through it as much as I should have.
 

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I should have added some more details. 68k words. They all range in price bit those are the editors I can afford at this time. I had one offer to work at $3/hr but the sample I got back wasn't well done. The one I like cleaned up the grammar/punctuation and made decent notes on what needed fixing. The best one was around the $1000 mark but thats way out of my budget.

Aaaand honestly I haven't gone through it as much as I should have.

Well, at $3 an hour... Put it like this: the UK's Society for Editors and Proofreaders suggested minimum rates are:

Proofreading: $37/hr
Copyediting: $43/hr
Substantial editing (structural, developmental): $50/hr

Those are the rates you'd pay a seasoned professional freelancer in the UK to do a proper job of it. If you're being quoted a rate that is not only less than 1/10th of that, but also way less than the minimum wage, you're not going to get a proper job.

I guess the question is, who are you actually looking to hire? Someone to write you a six-page letter critiquing your novel and suggesting changes, cuts, etc in a reasonably broad and structural way? Someone to go through it line-by-line and tighten up the language? Someone to spot and fix typos?
 

Jamesaritchie

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I should have added some more details. 68k words. They all range in price bit those are the editors I can afford at this time. I had one offer to work at $3/hr but the sample I got back wasn't well done. The one I like cleaned up the grammar/punctuation and made decent notes on what needed fixing. The best one was around the $1000 mark but thats way out of my budget.

Aaaand honestly I haven't gone through it as much as I should have.

Exactly what do you expect from the editor. Three to five hundred is reasonable, if all the editor does is check for grammar, punctuation, and typos.

But if you want an editor who is actually capable of editing content, such as plot, characterization, etc., I seriously doubt you'll find one who is qualified in this price range. There aren't many out there who can do this at all, and those few who can charge accordingly.

Budget or not, a qualified editor for this type of work is almost certainly going to charge $1,000 and up, and rightfully so.

This is an area where you usually do get what you pay for, and when you pay too little, you're just throwing money away.
 

Alzarakh

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Good points there. The editor I was talking with is way more useful at editing the major stuff that I miss like punctuation and grammar. Theyre also useful for story arc. The other one I ran into does an amazing job on the technical side of things editing sentences so they sound better and formatting. Both are around the $500 mark. Is it work hiring two editors that have different strengths or should I just find a good and qualified editor?

I just suck at editing. Strangely enough I only really read nonfiction so trying to write fiction is a challenge.
 

T Robinson

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Geometric progression

Get one that knows what they are doing. With two, you don't double your potential problems, you quadruple them.

Are you really ready though? Never pay an editor till you have absolutely taken it as far as you can through all available resources. (If your choice is to use a professional editor)

You save your money and their time.

Just noticed you are not at 50 posts yet. As soon as you do, use Share Your Work (SYW), once it is as far as you can take it. Several people will give you objective opinions.
 
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Jamesaritchie

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Good points there. The editor I was talking with is way more useful at editing the major stuff that I miss like punctuation and grammar. Theyre also useful for story arc. The other one I ran into does an amazing job on the technical side of things editing sentences so they sound better and formatting. Both are around the $500 mark. Is it work hiring two editors that have different strengths or should I just find a good and qualified editor?

I just suck at editing. Strangely enough I only really read nonfiction so trying to write fiction is a challenge.

Two things. Quite honestly, you really, really need to learn how to edit your own work, at leas to the point where it needs nothing more than very minor touches. There are things editors just can't do for yu, no matter how good they are.

The other thing is the experience and background of the editor you hire. Editing a thousand books for a thousand new writers is not useful experience. It doesn't make an editor one bit better.

What makes a real editor good is not only solid knowledge of such things as grammar, punctuation, or even plot and character, but what it takes to make a book publishable. This is where only a tiny few hired editors have a clue, and why the good ones cost so much.

If the potential hired editor is not a writer who has not sold books in your genre, or a genre very similar to yours, or has not worked for a good publisher doing exactly what it is you want done, save your money. Editors such as these are out there, and they're the ones you want, even if you have to pay more to get them.
 

Alzarakh

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Thanks for the honesty. I'm really not ready, just trying to find ways to move forward with the first draft. Without feedback my motivation is stifled and bumming me out. I did network with another writer locally so hopefully that will get the ball rolling again. (Not sure if this is on topic buuut) can anyone suggest a forum topic I can check out to improve my writing/editing skills?
 

K.B. Parker

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1. If you plan on querying, then I don't think paying a professional editor is the best ROI. Agents accept the fact that the MS they represent will need editing once/if it's picked up by a publisher.

2. You should NEVER discount an editor because they don't cost a thousand dollars or more. While the old adage, you get what you pay for, is mostly true, it's not comprehensive.

3. Depending on your genre, I could point you to a few great editors who charge between $400 and $800. These are experienced editors with established and best selling clients. Other times, when you get a low quote, it could be a freelance editor establishing him/herself. Some of these editors are real gems - they might not be all that experienced, but great editors aren't taught. They're born. I recently contracted an editor (who has already done amazing work in the romance genre) for $350 for a comprehensive edit. I missed my deadline and lost my spot, and within two months her price had rose to $1250 (but she still does copy edits for much less).

4. For developmental editing, if you have the time, a team of beta readers can fulfill that role. They probably won't be as articulate as an editor, but as readers, they are able to point out problems with characters, plots, dialogue, etc... Even with a developmental editor, I think Betas still perform a great service (if they're honest), as their feedback can actually help you decide if you even need a developmental edit in the first place. (Of course, if you are going the trade route, that doesn't matter anyway because you WILL get a developmental edit, as well as about five-to-six others, including copy, line and multiple passes of a proofreader.

I'm not saying that all these 'cheap' editors are great. Quite the opposite, but don't ever let the low cost be the sole detractor from your decisions. You need to have every single editor do a sample edit and if there isn't more than a few red lines on each page, I'd grab my money and run.

You should also understand that not all great editors are compatible with your project or your style of writing. That's something only you can judge, but it's very important that you and your editor are cohesive in the direction of your MS.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Thanks for the honesty. I'm really not ready, just trying to find ways to move forward with the first draft. Without feedback my motivation is stifled and bumming me out. I did network with another writer locally so hopefully that will get the ball rolling again. (Not sure if this is on topic buuut) can anyone suggest a forum topic I can check out to improve my writing/editing skills?

What does feedback have to do with motivation? Motivation should simply be that you really want to write this book, and enjoy the process.

If you want to write this book, and if you enjoy writing, then just sit down every day and write. This is the be all and end all of writing.

The best feedback you will ever get will come from agents and editors after you finish and polish the book to the best of your ability. Only a given agent can tell you if she wants to represent the book, and only a given editor can tell you if he thinks it's good enough to buy. Everyone else is just guessing.
 

Jamesaritchie

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2. You should NEVER discount an editor because they don't cost a thousand dollars or more. While the old adage, you get what you pay for, is mostly true, it's not comprehensive.

3. Depending on your genre, I could point you to a few great editors who charge between $400 and $800. These are experienced editors with established and best selling clients. Other times, when you get a low quote, it could be a freelance editor establishing him/herself. Some of these editors are real gems - they might not be all that experienced, but great editors aren't taught. They're born. I recently contracted an editor (who has already done amazing work in the romance genre) for $350 for a comprehensive edit. I missed my deadline and lost my spot, and within two months her price had rose to $1250 (but she still does copy edits for much less).

S.

And novelist who needs to hire an editor is in the wrong line of work, and, yes, you get exactly what you pay for when hiring an "editor".

About 99.9% of the hired "editors" out there are gems, all right, they cracked rhinestones, and the money they get from writers is just a fool and his money parting.
 

K.B. Parker

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And novelist who needs to hire an editor is in the wrong line of work, and, yes, you get exactly what you pay for when hiring an "editor".

About 99.9% of the hired "editors" out there are gems, all right, they cracked rhinestones, and the money they get from writers is just a fool and his money parting.

Any novelist who needs to hire an editor is in the wrong line of work? What the hell are you talking about? Should self published authors not hire editors? Do your words of wisdom apply to authors who are given editors at publishing houses?

Have you hired any of these editors? Have you had conversations with them? Have you seen their work? Doubt it. I already said you have to be careful when hiring an editor, but if you really believe great editors don't exist outside of New York, I feel sorry for you.
 

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And novelist who needs to hire an editor is in the wrong line of work, and, yes, you get exactly what you pay for when hiring an "editor".

About 99.9% of the hired "editors" out there are gems, all right, they cracked rhinestones, and the money they get from writers is just a fool and his money parting.

James, you're ignoring self-publishers, who are wise to hire editors prior to publication; and you're ignoring the many writers who have been helped by editors and editorial agencies.

You might not choose to work with editors you have to pay yourself, but that doesn't mean that no one should.

Any novelist who needs to hire an editor is in the wrong line of work? What the hell are you talking about? Should self published authors not hire editors? Do your words of wisdom apply to authors who are given editors at publishing houses?

Have you hired any of these editors? Have you had conversations with them? Have you seen their work? Doubt it. I already said you have to be careful when hiring an editor, but if you really believe great editors don't exist outside of New York, I feel sorry for you.

KB, you're welcome to disagree with James but you will do so in a respectful way. I hope that's clear.
 

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My day isn't complete without coming into a thread about editing and seeing the 30+ years I've spent honing my skills relegated to the level of snake-oil shysters.
 

K.B. Parker

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James, you're ignoring self-publishers, who are wise to hire editors prior to publication; and you're ignoring the many writers who have been helped by editors and editorial agencies.

You might not choose to work with editors you have to pay yourself, but that doesn't mean that no one should.

KB, you're welcome to disagree with James but you will do so in a respectful way. I hope that's clear.

In retrospect, I get that, but there was a clear lack of respect from James (towards both editors and the OP).
 

Old Hack

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In retrospect, I get that, but there was a clear lack of respect from James (towards both editors and the OP).

If that's what you thought and your intentions were good, then you should have reported the post and left it to the mods to resolve.

Snarking at him in the way you did was unacceptable. And coming back to whine about him after I corrected you both? Also unacceptable.

Next time, think carefully about what you're adding to the discussion and if you still feel you have to say something, take it to PM.
 

veinglory

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To be honest I think some prospective editors will try and butter you up to get the job. IMHO these are probably one to avoid. Praise that is moderate and specific is probably sincere. For example a recent editor sent me a quote where she noted a lower price due to the work only needing light copy-editing. I took that as a compliment ;)
 

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Discount editors, those charging less than $1,500 - $2,000 for a simple editing job, seem to fall into two groups. First is students. Not necessarily bad, but they are learning on your work. The second is off-shore and/or non-English editors. When you live in second, third or nineteenth world countries, the cost of living allows you to charge less. By the same token, you aren't working on the quality manuscripts and don't get a lot of experience.

Now, for a copy edit with grammar and punctuation corrected, you're in the price range. For a full-on book edit, maybe not. But it does depend on your relationship and the editor themselves as to what you'll get out of it.

Jeff