Too many words from a new author?

YeonAh said:

Coming from a new author with no writing background at all (I've been told multiple times winning Nanowrimo is not the kind of accomplishment you want on your query letter), what would the word count have to be before the agent starts thinking "This manuscript is going to be half padding and not worth the effort" and tossing the query aside?

I'm trying to get my and my co-author's book down to 150k by scraping out all the padding and junk, but is that still way too much and what is a good word count to aim for in a sci-fi/fantasy book?

Related, which is better or worse for a new author to try querying with: a higher-than-usual wordcount, or a two-book/three-book series?

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IMHO anything over 100K on a new author, agents tend to get a little squeamish. If it's high fantasy, that's an exception, you might be able to go as high as 120K.

Think about the thickness of the books you see on the shelves at B&N. The average urban fantasy is 90-95K. You might want to take a field trip to the book store or the library and find a book that's similar to yours in genre and check out their page counts. IIRC, it's 250-300 words a page, depending on type face. So if you've got a 150,000 word book that will be @600 pages. Check and see how many books are 600 pages on the shelf. I think you'll find that most books are less than 400 pages for a traditional paperback.

I think the sweet spot for word count depending on genre would be in the 75 - 90K range.

If you're querying with a higher than average word count, your query and your sample pages have to sparkle. If you have no clunky or excess words in them, it will go a long way to having the agent/editor overlook the length of your book. Especially, if they want to read more or the pages are so compelling they need to know what happens next.

In my experience, most agents/editors are looking for authors for their careers, so a 2 or 3 book series is a plus. However, the first book *must* be able to stand alone. And you don't discuss the other sequels in the query unless you want to say something along of the lines of "MY BOOK is a 100K-word fantasy novel with series potential."

I hope this helps Good luck!

It also depends on your genre - Adult? Young Adult? On adult works, 100k is difficult, but not impossible, to get rep for. Young Adult works are rarely accepted at 90k, it always seems to be 60k-85k with YA.

I agree with Jamie - 75-90k is a very nice range.

I'd keep it below 120k.

also, see: http://theswivet.blogspot.ca/2008/03/on-word-counts-and-novel-length.html

The above is all good advice, but also keep in mind that word count is becoming less important as ebooks overtake print and brick-and-mortar bookstores close. You're no longer competing for physical shelf space.

It's safer to stay close to genre conventions, and extremely low or high word counts will probably raise eyebrows, but the fudge room to either side of the norm is much more elastic these days.

The 100k mark is really just a rough guideline, the average length of the average adult novel. That's all it is. Depending on genre, or more exact, depending on publisher guidelines for a given type of novel, a first novel by a new writer may need to be short or longer than 100K

The best place to check for proper word length is always with major publishers. The guidelines they have out for each line of novels is there because that's what they want. The guidelines are aimed at new writers, and if your novel falls within them, you;re good to go.

If you're a bit on the low or high side, you're still good to go. If your novel is excellent, and you're at 150k, you're still good to go.

But when you fall out side these guidelines, you have to be better than writers who stay within them.

Anyway, check publisher guidelines, These are the definitive numbers, and not just opinion or guesswork.

Regarding a series, I've always read that you should never say your book is part of a series in a query. You can say that it is a standalone novel with series potential, but the key is it must be able to stand on its own.

ex_machina said:

It also depends on your genre - Adult? Young Adult? On adult works, 100k is difficult, but not impossible, to get rep for. Young Adult works are rarely accepted at 90k, it always seems to be 60k-85k with YA.

I agree with Jamie - 75-90k is a very nice range.

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Unless, again, you write fantasy. YA fantasy has been given more leeway recently, since the advent of Harry Potter (the first book was just over 85,000 words). Yes, you're not JK Rowling, but HP and the Sorcerer's Stone was a) for Middle Graders and b) HER first book. Unheard of at that time to have such a long book for 9-12 year olds. But since then fantasy has been creeping up in word count.


So for YA fantasy, a first book MIGHT be able to get away with a higher word count range (but 85K is a nice number; they still get squeamish over 100 K; I had an agent tell me 105K was too long. I cut 5K and the agent who took me on for rep said it's fine.) Middle grade fantasy used to be 30-50K; now you can write something 65K and if it's really good it's fine.

It all depends on your story, but yes, 120K is too long for a first book. It's not that they want writers to write less, it's about the cost to produce a long book from an unknown writer.

Christine N. said:

Unless, again, you write fantasy. YA fantasy has been given more leeway recently, since the advent of Harry Potter (the first book was just over 85,000 words). Yes, you're not JK Rowling, but HP and the Sorcerer's Stone was a) for Middle Graders and b) HER first book. Unheard of at that time to have such a long book for 9-12 year olds. But since then fantasy has been creeping up in word count.


So for YA fantasy, a first book MIGHT be able to get away with a higher word count range (but 85K is a nice number; they still get squeamish over 100 K; I had an agent tell me 105K was too long. I cut 5K and the agent who took me on for rep said it's fine.) Middle grade fantasy used to be 30-50K; now you can write something 65K and if it's really good it's fine.

It all depends on your story, but yes, 120K is too long for a first book. It's not that they want writers to write less, it's about the cost to produce a long book from an unknown writer.

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Oh, definitely! Pure fantasy, I think, is almost expected to be in the upper wordcount, but it's a catch-22 in that many pubs balk at anything over 100k.

I'm in the same position you are (went from about 200k to 150k) with an epicish fantasy novel out for query, and really, I decided that it doesn't matter. This isn't a 100k novel -- it just isn't, and it's counterproductive to try to make it into one. I'm working on other novels to query if this one fails, which I would encourage you to do.

Is 150,000 words a tougher sell than 100,00 for Fantasy? Yes. Is it impossible? Good lord, no. It just needs to be very good. I can point to several debut Fantasy novels over 120,000 words that have been published in the last few years. In fact, over at query tracker, I can identify several novels picked up by agents that are longer than 120,000. It's a challenge, but not an insurmountable one.