• Read this stickie before posting.

    • In order to reduce the number of new members requesting a Beta reader before they're really ready for one, we've instituted a 50 post requirement before you can start a thread seeking a Beta reader.
    • You can still volunteer to Beta for someone else; just please don't request someone to Beta for you until you're more familiar with the community and our members.

What if your Beta experience did not go as planned?

Karen Junker

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Hi, Railroad --

I have a few great writing buddies right now and would be willing to work with more.

I'm looking for more of a writing buddy for me, though I am willing to critique or beta for others. PM me your email address if you are interested in talking more -- though I'll be out of town for the next two weeks, so I may not answer you right away.
 

Renée A. Price

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Sad to read about the things that happened to people here. Some of them made me question people's intention when they offer to beta.

I had luck with most of my betas, except for one that seems to think profesionalism isn't something to consider. Just saw this person talk about problems she thought my MS had. And here I was thiking those should be kept between us. Nice! It makes me insecure about sharing my work again.
 
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mamiller512

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I have had several wonderful Beta experiences. Wonderful ladies that I swapped chapters with who offered advice/critiques for me and were thankful for my help/comments on their work. My writing has improved by working with them.

I had a bad experience I want to share but it was as a Beta. I had a writer that I found through another site that traded with me a chapter at a time. She continually assured me that she would implement the grammatical and other simple changes when she could so I continually had to note the same type of mistakes, hoping against hope that I would reach a chapter where she had stopped making that same error. I know. I should have kicked back the first chapter where I saw the errors continuing but again it was on trade and she was editing my work.

About half the way through, I noticed all the conflict in her story happened to the buddy and not the MC. I explained my point and encouraged her to add more conflict. She thanked me and went to do a re-write. Months later, she then forwarded her MS and asked for my thoughts. Again, I took the time to read the whole thing (250+ pages), only to find that other than some (not all) of the grammatical errors, she implemented only one very minor change and left everything else as is. Now I don't expect a CP to take every suggestion, every writer has their own vision but I felt I had pointed out a bit of a misstep, and that it was something that would improve her story. So, maybe she disagreed but what about all the comments where I couldn't tell who was talking because of a lack of action tags and dialogue tags? These things were the same, too!

My point is that my time is precious, and if I'm doing Beta reading, I'm not writing. If you aren't interested in my perspective, then send me on my way. I can read for someone else. Why would you ask me to continue to read your stuff, not implement any real suggestions, and then expect me to read it again and comment? If you are not interested in a different set of eyes to review your MS, don't keep asking, hoping for a different result. Isn't that the definition of insanity?

The oddest part was she thanked me in her acknowledgments but not as a Beta (apparently she had others) but as someone who helped her along this journey? When she asked me to comment, I tried to beg off and say a generic "I like the changes you made and congrats on finishing" but she came back and asked if I had any further comments. Any suggestions?
 
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buz

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The oddest part was she thanked me in her acknowledgments but not as a Beta (apparently she had others) but as someone who helped her along this journey? When she asked me to comment, I tried to beg off and say a generic "I like the changes you made and congrats on finishing" but she came back and asked if I had any further comments. Any suggestions?

Perhaps you could say something like "I think my usefulness as a beta has run its course for this work. I don't have much to say about this that I didn't say the first time around, and we can certainly discuss those things further if you want to, but otherwise it may be time to find fresh eyes for the manuscript--I don't feel that I have anything new to contribute." ...something sorta like that. ;)
 

lise8

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the cheek of the ungreatful!

I have had several wonderful Beta experiences. Wonderful ladies that I swapped chapters with who offered advice/critiques for me and were thankful for my help/comments on their work. My writing has improved by working with them.

I had a bad experience I want to share but it was as a Beta. I had a writer that I found through another site that traded with me a chapter at a time. She continually assured me that she would implement the grammatical and other simple changes when she could so I continually had to note the same type of mistakes, hoping against hope that I would reach a chapter where she had stopped making that same error. I know. I should have kicked back the first chapter where I saw the errors continuing but again it was on trade and she was editing my work.

About half the way through, I noticed all the conflict in her story happened to the buddy and not the MC. I explained my point and encouraged her to add more conflict. She thanked me and went to do a re-write. Months later, she then forwarded her MS and asked for my thoughts. Again, I took the time to read the whole thing (250+ pages), only to find that other than some (not all) of the grammatical errors, she implemented only one very minor change and left everything else as is. Now I don't expect a CP to take every suggestion, every writer has their own vision but I felt I had pointed out a bit of a misstep, and that it was something that would improve her story. So, maybe she disagreed but what about all the comments where I couldn't tell who was talking because of a lack of action tags and dialogue tags? These things were the same, too!

My point is that my time is precious, and if I'm doing Beta reading, I'm not writing. If you aren't interested in my perspective, then send me on my way. I can read for someone else. Why would you ask me to continue to read your stuff, not implement any real suggestions, and then expect me to read it again and comment? If you are not interested in a different set of eyes to review your MS, don't keep asking, hoping for a different result. Isn't that the definition of insanity?

The oddest part was she thanked me in her acknowledgments but not as a Beta (apparently she had others) but as someone who helped her along this journey? When she asked me to comment, I tried to beg off and say a generic "I like the changes you made and congrats on finishing" but she came back and asked if I had any further comments. Any suggestions?

you sound like an amazing and caring beta reader... Do not let this hinder you from beta reading again! In the end, it is up to the author to take on your advice or not, but I find it hard to understand how this particular author can have the guts to ask you to beta read a second time when she has not applied any of your advice! I agree with the other person's comment, it might be time to severe the link with that author! Good luck on your next beta work...
 

mamiller512

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Does it work best to swap beta reads?

I find that the process is more advantageous for both parties if it's a swap. The expectations and timelines are clearer when there is an exchange. There is also less resentment, IMO, them with a single sided agreement.
 

Viridian

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I had a beta'ing experience I still feel bad about.

I had a first page posted on Dear Author a while back... three people offered to reader further and give me some advice. Which was really exciting, but I was shy and didn't have much to show at the moment, so I kept quiet.

Then a while later, a different first page of mine was posted. Two more offers! I was flattered, but still quite shy. Ended up giving my e-mail address, and those two wonderful people helped me figure out where exactly to start my story and how to continue.

Both were helpful, and I was grateful. One didn't seem interested in continuing (busy with her own work, I think). The other agreed to read on, but around the same time I went through a job change and a big move and ended up just... not checking my e-mail for a few weeks. By then, I was too embarrassed to ask for her help again.

Sigh! I could be a good writer. Alas, I am a flake who squanders her opportunities. :/
 

CathleenT

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These are my thoughts on beta readers/critique partners.

I've worked so far with six who aren't also family members, and we reciprocated. It's a bit of a mixed bag.

I always try to give encouragement in the email I send back with the reviewed Word document, since most of what happens while I'm critiquing is essentially negative. I notice when I'm knocked out of the story.

It hurts to get criticism, because we all want to think everyone is going to love our work and think it's their new very favorite story. But that's not realistic.

If I send you my work, and it has obvious flaws and you don't tell me, you have just wasted time for both of us. You have raised my expectations when I should have been working hard to improve my manuscript. It's not kind; it just looks that way.

When I have a story in front of me, it's completely dispassionate. I make remarks with the sole idea of improving the story. That's all. And it's just as a reader; I make no pretense of being involved with agencies or publishers. Feel free to agree or disagree, because it's your story. But if I reach a point that if I were reading this as a book I'd picked up, and you (for instance) ruin my respect for the main character so much that I would put the book down and never pick it up again, you should know this. I simply might not be your intended audience, and that's fine. But I feel I owe it to anyone I'm beta reading for to let them know things like this. And I want to know them, too, even though hearing it isn't pleasant.

I used to spend a lot of time explaining, but I've found that many people don't really want to process anything beyond the fact that I don't think their book is ready to be the next bestseller. One post on this thread had a gal mention that she would like to be told why. So I would encourage you to ask your beta reader. They're probably willing to explain themselves at some length; I know I am. But there's no point in putting in the extra effort unless you know it will be appreciated.

Hope you're all having decent beta experiences to go with your less-than-wonderful ones. I figure if I get enough honest feedback, even I can get this right.
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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I recently went through the thread of people offering to be beta readers. What surprised me a little was that most of the ones I PM'd didn't reply at all (but hadn't removed themselves from the list). Of the two that responded, one was willing to do a couple of chapters at a time, and the feedback was kind of general. The other took the whole novel, and gave me back a crit that just blew me away. I did not expect that level of effort, and frankly I'm feeling a little intimidated about ever doing a beta myself.

The beta crit itself didn't have any huge surprises -- I kind of suspected my issues -- but there were enough specific examples provided to allow me to get my teeth into it.

I guess my advice would be, if you don't get a good beta, try again. There are good people out there.
 

Eris0303

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I gave my manuscript to five people - only three have finished it. One begged off because it was too much work and another has had the manuscript since May and is only on page 20.
 

khosszu

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I recently went through the thread of people offering to be beta readers. What surprised me a little was that most of the ones I PM'd didn't reply at all (but hadn't removed themselves from the list). Of the two that responded, one was willing to do a couple of chapters at a time, and the feedback was kind of general. The other took the whole novel, and gave me back a crit that just blew me away. I did not expect that level of effort, and frankly I'm feeling a little intimidated about ever doing a beta myself.

The beta crit itself didn't have any huge surprises -- I kind of suspected my issues -- but there were enough specific examples provided to allow me to get my teeth into it.

I guess my advice would be, if you don't get a good beta, try again. There are good people out there.
I had a similar experience - contacted a few betas that just RECENTLY posted on the thread, and not one of them got back to me. Frustrating!

Your experience with the beta that gave you the in-depth critique sounds great though, and I'll keep searching in the hopes of finding someone willing AND able :)
 

Moonchild

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I just today had a bit of a setback with a Beta: I emailed him the first half of my MS earlier this summer (I only recently finished a major overhaul, doing a significant amount of pruning) and hadn't heard back in a while. I emailed him asking if he was ready for the second half since it's now done and he sheepishly told me he hadn't really started what I'd already given him because he's been too busy.

I'm frustrated but not angry. I know it's summer and people have things going on, and he's a busy guy so it was a bit of a risk going in. Still, though, I'm a little disheartened by it.

I wouldn't take it personally, compass. :Hug2: At least he replied and told you he hadn't had a chance to start, right? I'm having a similar experience right now--and it's with someone I already had an established relationship with! They agreed to beta, but I haven't even heard a peep from them since I sent the MS a few weeks ago. However, I happen to know this person is going through a tough time in life right now, so I'm not taking anything personally and I'm giving them all the time/space they need. :) Heck, if they just emailed me and told me they'd have to regretfully bow out because of all the crap going on in their life right now, I'd totally get it. (I am a little sad that they haven't even checked in, because I was kinda looking forward to their particular critique. :Shrug: But sh*t happens.)

Mind you, my opinion/attitude is probably informed by the fact that I myself am a ridiculously slow beta! :D I like to be thorough and I type out an actual document with my comments, so this can take up a lot of time. Plus, life is busy and I've got my own writing to work on. So I try to think my own betas are likely to be the same way: Busy, multitasking creative types with lots of stuff going on in their lives.
 

rsrdiall

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I don't know how I found this thread but this has been really helpful and is validating my decision to come here. I had an awful beta experience. One read one chapter and never got back. The other read a couple of chapters and went the other extreme. I really wish they would just come out and say, "This is crap." I spent three months trying to get people to read something that was garbage and frankly a waste of all of our time. It pushed me to get to re-writing and I'm much happier with what I've produced. That old story makes me cringe now and I feel bad about it but I honestly didn't know any better.

This time around I'm going to tell a beta to just state it up front. I hope to improve because of it. Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences. It's encouraging.
 

haunted

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ok....

I submitted a dark horror story to an anthology and the story upset a beta reader so bad, she quit. Ha Ha, I think I like that? I hope she had nightmares. Unless a story gives me nightmares, it's not scary enough.
 

WriteMinded

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I submitted a dark horror story to an anthology and the story upset a beta reader so bad, she quit. Ha Ha, I think I like that? I hope she had nightmares. Unless a story gives me nightmares, it's not scary enough.
Haha. Ya musta done good!:D
 

haunted

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Apparently! I like my horror scary...I mean, what scares me the most is what I write about. Guess it's just a little too much for some.
 

Thomas Vail

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I guess my advice would be, if you don't get a good beta, try again. There are good people out there.
Given the topic, I'm a little surprised that more people haven't weight in about their experiences flaking out as beta readers (maybe I just have an unusual lack of shame :tongue). There have been times when, I must regretfully admit, that I've gone silent after getting a work. Even ones I'm really looking forward to reading, there have been times where I've gotten to the end of the day and realized, 'crap! Haven't started to read X's ms. Okay, I'll do it tomorrow.' And then two weeks go by and I realize I haven't thought about reading it at all. Then X sends me an e-mail to ask about how it's going, and I promise myself that I'll start to read it right away so I can send back a positive answer, and the cycle repeats itself.

So when a beta reader goes silent and takes forever to get back to you, it's not that they don't like, or have any issues with your writing, it's just that they're kind of a putz. :D
 

chompers

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I had a terrible critique partner, who is actually from this site. He just suddenly stopped responding at all, but I know he was alive because I kept seeing him posting elsewhere. I told him if he didn't want to continue, just let me know, but he was still too cowardly to say anything. Tried following up with him numerous times. It wasn't until I straight up called him out on it that he came back with excuses on how busy he was. Seriously, not even to have the decency to at least respond that he couldn't make it? It was three weeks and multiple messages. What a liar. Completely burned his bridges, and I don't get mad easily.
 
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chompers

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I guess my advice would be, if you don't get a good beta, try again. There are good people out there.
Yes, there are.

Despite my terrible experience with the critique partner I mentioned above, I did find a good critique partner (also from this site), although it's for a different genre. She's honest and open with me. And there's been times where she's forgotten about a meeting (so have I), but she apologizes for it and doesn't try to hide the fact.

And for my writing, she's reliable in that if she says she'll do it, it'll get done. Unless it turns out to be something she normally wouldn't read, then she'll tell me. But at least she gave it a try and let me know it's not her cup of tea.
 

chompers

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I had a beta'ing experience I still feel bad about.

I had a first page posted on Dear Author a while back... three people offered to reader further and give me some advice. Which was really exciting, but I was shy and didn't have much to show at the moment, so I kept quiet.

Then a while later, a different first page of mine was posted. Two more offers! I was flattered, but still quite shy. Ended up giving my e-mail address, and those two wonderful people helped me figure out where exactly to start my story and how to continue.

Both were helpful, and I was grateful. One didn't seem interested in continuing (busy with her own work, I think). The other agreed to read on, but around the same time I went through a job change and a big move and ended up just... not checking my e-mail for a few weeks. By then, I was too embarrassed to ask for her help again.

Sigh! I could be a good writer. Alas, I am a flake who squanders her opportunities. :/
You could still try to contact them, even after a long period of time. I once had someone beta something for me, and she did a GREAT job and had it back to me I think the next day. I know it was a really fast turnaround. And then holidays came around and I didn't have time to work on that story anymore. Something like half a year passed by before I had a chance to get back to it. I emailed her again, telling her that it'd been a while since I'd worked on it and that I was ready to work on it again and would she be interested in looking at the rest of what I had (I'd only given her the first chapter the first time around)? And she was enthusiastic about helping again and provided yet again some great feedback. And it was another fast turnaround again - less than 24 hours for 30k words of my still-in-progress story.

So you never know... :)
 
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Tepelus

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I had a terrible critique partner, who is actually from this site. He just suddenly stopped responding at all, but I know he was alive because I kept seeing him posting elsewhere. I told him if he didn't want to continue, just let me know, but he was still too cowardly to say anything. Tried following up with him numerous times. It wasn't until I straight up called him out on it that he came back with excuses on how busy he was. Seriously, not even to have the decency to at least respond that he couldn't make it? It was three weeks and multiple messages. What a liar. Completely burned his bridges, and I don't get mad easily.

Had one from here just as you described. After a while I decided he wasn't worth the effort to contact with. Never got a thank you for the crit I did on the partial he sent me of his piece, though he did crit the partial I sent him. But after that, he stopped responding to my messages and like you, I saw that he was posting on the forum.
 

mccardey

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I know the OP is about beta reads that didn't go as planned, but just to balance things out, I've really enjoyed the process. I've done a few reads and loved them, and I had someone very kindly offer to look at my first few chapters when I was moaning about them recently, and received valuable and very insightful feedback.

So, there's that.

Guess I just don't want people to be put off by only focussing on the negative.


ETA: Oh - I did have one negative beta-experience in an early read I did, where I got smacked for being critical. No idea what that was about - miscommunication, I expect. Anyway, I survived and lived to beta another day :)