Richard III's remains: Leicester car park dug up

Rufus Coppertop · Feb 13, 2013

Alessandra Kelley said:
Shouldn't it have a carved effigy on top? He died in battle. Doesn't that mean his feet get to rest on a lion?

Hear hear!

Shakesbear · Feb 13, 2013

I think that what is or is not on the tomb depends on the cost. Having a carved effigy could make it, imo, a target for the vandal and the souvenir hunter. I am not sure about the significance of animals on tombs.

Alessandra Kelley · Feb 13, 2013

Shakesbear said:
I think that what is or is not on the tomb depends on the cost. Having a carved effigy could make it, imo, a target for the vandal and the souvenir hunter. I am not sure about the significance of animals on tombs.

I was told (don't know if it's true) that in English funeral effigies, (such as those all the kings and queens got), if the feet are resting on a lion (symbol of courage and valor) the person died in battle. Otherwise their feet rest on a dog (symbol of faith, i.e. the common old dog name "Fido")

Shakesbear · Feb 13, 2013

Alessandra Kelley said:
I was told (don't know if it's true) that in English funeral effigies, (such as those all the kings and queens got), if the feet are resting on a lion (symbol of courage and valor) the person died in battle. Otherwise their feet rest on a dog (symbol of faith, i.e. the common old dog name "Fido")

Makes sense to me! Except that a lot of the tombs I have seen have the female with her feet in a dog. The dog, as you have said, being the symbol of faithfulness. Lion is the king of the beasts. Gets interesting. Though I think if there is going to be an animal on the grave then it ought to be the White Boar.

Belle_91 · Feb 13, 2013

This is kind of random, sort of, but Philippa Gregory's novel The White Queen I believe deals with the subject of King Richard III and the princes in the tower. It's supposed to be made into a miniseries on BBC. I thought the book was good, but I know Ms. Gregory has a way of running away with historical facts. If the series does come to the US, I do plan on watching it.

Has anyone else read The White Queen? I thought it was good.

Shakesbear · Feb 13, 2013

Belle_91 said:
This is kind of random, sort of, but Philippa Gregory's novel The White Queen I believe deals with the subject of King Richard III and the princes in the tower. It's supposed to be made into a miniseries on BBC. I thought the book was good, but I know Ms. Gregory has a way of running away with historical facts. If the series does come to the US, I do plan on watching it.

Has anyone else read The White Queen? I thought it was good.

I have not read any of her books - the blurb on the back always puts me off.

AnneMarble · Feb 13, 2013

Shakesbear said:
I think that what is or is not on the tomb depends on the cost. Having a carved effigy could make it, imo, a target for the vandal and the souvenir hunter. I am not sure about the significance of animals on tombs.

Maybe they're worried about anti-Ricardians, if there is such a term (there is now! :tongue

) coming in and defacing the statue.

Or they're worried about the cost. When was the last time a king of England was buried with an effigy and all that? Stonecarvers charge a lot more now.

But a carved effigy would still be nice...

shakeysix · Feb 13, 2013

I think it should be the white boar. --s6

Komnena · Feb 18, 2013

Maybe he could have his feet on the lion and his head on the white boar.

Shakesbear · Feb 20, 2013

Komnena said:
Maybe he could have his feet on the lion and his head on the white boar.

I like it!

RichardGarfinkle · Feb 20, 2013

It would not be uncommon for someone of his time and rank to have their full heraldic achievement (inaccurately called a Coat of Arms) on his tomb. Two White Boars serve as supporters for those arms.
https://www.google.com/search?q=arm...AQ&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|1;d|MXEqDoNoHB6FCM:

Shakesbear · Feb 20, 2013

I agree Richard. It would, I think, be appropriate. I would hate to think how much it would cost though.

Shakesbear · Jul 18, 2013

Leicester Cathedral confirm £1 million tomb for Richard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23355604

Given that the Minster has said that they do not want Richard the judicial review results could be interesting if the decision is for York Minster. I spoke to a journalist who works for the Yorkshire Post and he would not be drawn on what would happen. Though he did agree with me that finding a place to bury Richard in the Minster could be problematical.

LOL! "A little little grave, an obscure grave . . ." struck me as being funny in the light of the plans for re-internment!

AnneMarble · Jul 18, 2013

Shakesbear said:
Leicester Cathedral confirm £1 million tomb for Richard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23355604

The May/June issue of British Archaeology has a cover story withthe headline Richard III: The Back Story and a picture of his spine!

Alessandra Kelley · Jul 18, 2013

Shakesbear said:
Leicester Cathedral confirm £1 million tomb for Richard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23355604

Given that the Minster has said that they do not want Richard the judicial review results could be interesting if the decision is for York Minster. I spoke to a journalist who works for the Yorkshire Post and he would not be drawn on what would happen. Though he did agree with me that finding a place to bury Richard in the Minster could be problematical.

LOL! "A little little grave, an obscure grave . . ." struck me as being funny in the light of the plans for re-internment!

Oh! It's going to rest on an inlaid white rose. (Tearing up here.)

shakeysix · Jul 18, 2013

Hate to sound like an old hippy but couldn't they throw some of that money towards helping spinal research? He's been under that parking lot for a long time. Surely he'd settle for a couple of thousand dollars for a simple tombstone--s6

Shakesbear · Jul 18, 2013

AnneMarble said:
The May/June issue of British Archaeology has a cover story withthe headline Richard III: The Back Story and a picture of his spine!

Groan! Back story. Groan. Though it looks interesting, may try to get a copy.

Alessandra Kelley said:
Oh! It's going to rest on an inlaid white rose. (Tearing up here.)

Hands Alessandra a large box of tissues.

shakeysix said:
Hate to sound like an old hippy but couldn't they throw some of that money towards helping spinal research? He's been under that parking lot for a long time. Surely he'd settle for a couple of thousand dollars for a simple tombstone--s6

Shakey I had a similar thought, that the money could be better spent. Leicester is going all out for tourism and making money from the discovery. Museum and what have you - I think there is even a fly over of the battle field. I suppose that those spending the money will consider is an investment as it will bring jobs to the city.

shakeysix · Jul 18, 2013

Okay. I can see that--s6

AnneMarble · Jul 18, 2013

Shakesbear said:
Groan! Back story. Groan. Though it looks interesting, may try to get a copy.

Check out the University of Leicester add on the back.

It says something like "We found Richard III. Who will you find." (And I must say, the drawing of Richard III is kinda hawt... If you like lean, moody warriors with longish hair. And who doesn't?!)

Shakesbear said:
Shakey I had a similar thought, that the money could be better spent. Leicester is going all out for tourism and making money from the discovery. Museum and what have you - I think there is even a fly over of the battle field. I suppose that those spending the money will consider is an investment as it will bring jobs to the city.

They have a point. If somebody had ever said "Make sure you go to the Leicester when you next visit England," I would have said "Is that where they make that sauce?"

OK, not quite, but it wouldn't have been on top of my tourist destinations. But...

Also, if that ad I mentioned above is any indication, they're using it to bring in more students, probably more professors as well, improve the reputation of the university, etc.

AnneMarble · Jul 23, 2013

You can now preorder a Richard III documentary DVD:
Richard III; Martyr or Monster? The Shocking Truth behind Shakespeare's Bloody Tyrant

One of the cast members is (and I kid you not) "Richard of York (Actor)."
Gee, I wonder why he hasn't done more movies? Perhaps they didn't have video in the 1400s?!
:e2smack:

Also coming up is a nice looking book: The King's Grave: The Discovery of Richard III's Lost Burial Place and the Clues It Holds by Philippa Langley and Michael Jones.

I know Philippa Langley got a lot of guff for the way she came off in some of the interviews. But... she has been a very crucial part of getting the dig underway, generating publicity, etc., etc. So cheers for Philippa Langley!

:e2cheer:

mccardey · Jul 29, 2013

Meanwhile, back at the car park...

Archaeologists have discovered a mysterious coffin-within-a-coffin from the same Leicester car park where England's King Richard III was famously buried for 500 years.
Experts returned to the site of the former Grey Friars Church at the beginning of July to learn more about the area, only to find a full intact stone casket with a lead coffin inside.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/double-...-grave-site-20130730-2qvhb.html#ixzz2aTj6SYeL

Car parks get more interesting by the minute...

williemeikle · Jul 29, 2013

mccardey said:
Meanwhile, back at the car park...
.

There's a great pulp British horror novel from the '60s, "Bury Him Darkly" by John Blackburn that deals with the finding of a lead casket in the tomb of a nobleman. It doesn't end well

shakeysix · Jul 29, 2013

Is that the one that begins with a girl dreaming about a man in a medieval painting? --s6

Shakesbear · Aug 4, 2013

Leicester Cathedral has started to reorder in preparation for Richard IIIs tomb. This is before the result from the Judicial Enquiry.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-23549930

William Haskins · May 24, 2014

In the battle royal over Richard III's bones, Britain's High Court has given the victory to Leicester.

The court ruled Friday that the 15th-century monarch should be buried in the city in central England where his skeleton was found under a parking lot in 2012.

A group of distant relatives had wanted Richard interred in the northern England city of York, to which he had strong ties.

Calling the case "unique and exceptional," three judges ruled there were no grounds to overturn the government's decision to grant a burial license to Leicester. Richard's remains are due to be enshrined in the city's cathedral.

http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/uk-court-richard-iii-buried-leicester-23838451

Richard III's remains: Leicester car park dug up

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