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LazyDay Publishing

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Dmorgan, Good to meet you, hun. I'm just about as fresh to ebook submitting as anyone can get. Usually I go with two feet first and and blindfolded to the hilt. The only ones to keep me away from the trap doors are the likes of tho, Vein etc.

All due respect, the questions up there asked were professional and frank, and LazyDay gets every respect for coming back and answering them. It may seem like intense probing, but it's done protect authors like me, you. And hell knows we need someone out there to give us the heads up while we're trying to learn.

I can see LazyDay understands the need for that. They wouldn't keep coming back to answer these question if they didn't.
 
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eqb

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In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong, you signed up to this site today only to bolster LazyDay's unfettered claims.

I have to confess, my first reaction was "sockpuppet."

LazyDay has been quite good about answering questions. For that I applaud them. But...

If someone asked me whether they should submit to LD, I'd recommend waiting a year to see how things shake out. Publishing is a different beast. They need, imo, acquiring editors and marketing staff with experience in publishing.
 

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Might not be a sockpuppet. Could be a 'friend' that felt the need to drop in their two cent. Not in LD's best interest for it to happen, but it is a possibility that LazyDay really didn't ask for backup.

What concerns me is the full rights, not Dmorgan. A very new e-publisher should be aware that writers should be able to keep as many rights as possible. Maybe I'm ignorant - but shouldn't an e-publisher ask for only electronic rights and if approached by a print market (such as what happened with RR's zombie anthology), then offer to buy print rights?

I would think that is the best avenue for the author and the best way to build a trusting relationship instead of taking full rights for things that may never see print. Why bother amending the contract when it can be written to benefit the author in the first place? Many new authors are not going to be as savvy as most AWers.
 
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eqb

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Might not be a sockpuppet. Could be a 'friend' that felt the need to drop in their two cent. Not in LD's best interest for it to happen, but it is a possibility that LazyDay really didn't ask for backup.

Very true. That's why I said "first reaction," but I fully agree that it's probably just a well-meaning but gormless friend. (Note to DMorgan: You are not doing your friend any favors by your transparent and sadly uniformed defense.)

What concerns me is the full rights, not Dmorgan. A very new e-publisher should be aware that writers should be able to keep as many rights as possible. Maybe I'm ignorant - but shouldn't an e-publisher ask for only electronic rights and if approached by a print market (such as what happened with RR's zombie anthology), then offer to buy print rights?

All publishers try to take as many rights as they can. (Ask me about my Wizards of the Coast contract for a short story.) However, LD has said they are open to negotiation, so that's good. The bit about "amending the contract" makes no sense--what you need is a new contract for the new rights offered--but I trust they will figure that out when the time comes. They aren't stupid, merely inexperienced.

But...they are inexperienced. Painfully so. They have no acquiring editors with any background in fiction, and they are acquiring novels in too many genres, again without any background in the field.

Again, I recommend waiting at least a year after their launch to see how things shake out.
 

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Hello again. I just wanted to say that we at LazyDay have taken what everyone has said on this forum to heart. Though some comments on this site can be "harsh", most have been helpful.
Because of the concerns about full rights, we are more than willing to only contract digital at first, until of course we decide to go to print. We don't want any author to feel "screwed". That wouldn't foster a good working environment for anyone.
As for being inexperienced and waiting a year. I could say the same about many of the authors out there. How many authors are trying to find their first break? And if EVERYONE waited a year, we wouldn't have a business now would we? :)
Being a new publisher does offer many things to the authors. A lot more attention, flexibility and energy will be spent on them.
As for experienced editors... we are flooded with interested parties, and although we were waiting until after launch to hire more, we are finding ourselves busier than expected. So we are seriously considering a couple of freelance editors who have shown interest, and will hopefully be bringing two more to our team.
And thank you to everyone who publically and privately has sent LazyDay Publishing good wishes!
 

eqb

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As for being inexperienced and waiting a year. I could say the same about many of the authors out there. How many authors are trying to find their first break? And if EVERYONE waited a year, we wouldn't have a business now would we? :)

False analogy. Writers submit a complete novel. An experienced acquisitions editor can judge whether it's marketable.

You have no track record yet, so authors have no way to see if you know anything about acquiring, editing, and marketing books.

Being a new publisher does offer many things to the authors. A lot more attention, flexibility and energy will be spent on them.

So once you've been around a while, you'll stop paying attention to your authors? I know that's not what you meant, but it's a reasonable conclusion.

It's nice that you're promoting a feel-good relationship with your authors--I love the attention I get from my editors--but it's more important that you know how to edit and market your authors' books.

As for experienced editors... we are flooded with interested parties, and although we were waiting until after launch to hire more, we are finding ourselves busier than expected. So we are seriously considering a couple of freelance editors who have shown interest, and will hopefully be bringing two more to our team.

That's good to hear. I hope these are editors with experience in acquiring and editing the genres on your list.

I know you think I'm being too harsh, but publishing is not an entry level position. If you fail, you take your authors down with you. (Or at least their books.)

I strongly suggest that you read this post. Those publishers in gray? They are all defunct now. Follow the links and try to learn from their mistakes.

And best of luck.
 

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What that link doesn't show is the many many epubs who are still in business but only selling books in the single digits. It seems entirely possible for some publishers to last well past the one year mark while doing virtually nothing in sales.
 

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Yeah, epubs tend to either slowly implode from attrition, or go supernova from internal pressure. Then the remnants coalesce into their own epubs, and the cosmic dance continues.
 

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There is a core of reputable e-publishing companies who have survived a number of years and are growing in size, sales and credibility.

However, for every successful e-pub, there are many who didn't make it past the first year.
 

eqb

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And that's why I suggested writers watch LD for a year before submitting. (If not longer, actually.) That way, we can monitor their sales and the overall health of the company.
 

jennontheisland

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Which is why I suggest two years and private conversations with authors published by the company.
 

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But if everyone waits, then LD will go out of business.

In the end, each writer just has to decide for herself if she wants to take the risk.

And hopefully, she's smart enough to get a rights reversion clause in the contract from the CYA department. @=)
 

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People won't wait. There are people who want so much to call themselves published that they're willing to pay for it (not saying LD charges, they don't).

Lots of writers are willing to take the risk on new publishers. Some of us prefer publishers to have a little experience and proof that we're going to actually make money with the assets we're handing over to them. And we're willing to suggest that to others too. What people do with suggestions and advice is up to them. Me, I'm not going to hand over earning potential to an untried and unproven business venture out of the goodness of my heart just so that they won't go out of business.

(Lots of writers also don't view their work as assets, but publishers do, that's why they want so many of the rights to it).
 
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eqb

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But if everyone waits, then LD will go out of business.

My heart bleeds for them.

Seriously, why should writers risk their novels on an outfit that has a complete blank in publishing experience? (Not only that, they seem to think this is a good thing.)

However, there are authors who will send their work to LD no matter how many red flags get waved. Some advice for LD, in case they are listening:

Limit the number of genres you publish. The scattershot approach won't work.

Start off with novellas only. If you add novels, consider publishing reprints. Go with English e-pub only at first.

It's too late for you to get experience in publishing before your launch date, but it's not too late to hire that experience. Hire a full-time editor with experience in acquiring the two or three genres you focus on. Hire a full-time marketing person with experience in publishing.

Once you've established yourself, add print rights to your contract. Before you do that, make sure you have a distributor. This is when you can expand the number of genres you publish, too.

Best of luck.
 

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Seriously, why should writers risk their novels on an outfit that has a complete blank in publishing experience? (Not only that, they seem to think this is a good thing.)

I do agree that experience can get things done better and faster, but sometimes the only way to get experience is to do things. And, to play devil's advocate, I know plenty of well-published authors who have trusted experienced publishers and gotten burned just as badly.

As I said before, each writer needs to make their own decisions and I would hope everyone does their research and determines for themselves how much of risk they are willing to take before committing.

And as a footnote, it astonishes me the level of vitriol that's come out in this one thread. It's not something I'm used to seeing on AW. I would understand it better had LD already proven to be a scam publisher. But as they've just started and, to my knowledge, don't have any scammers or "evil editors" on their employment lists, it seems a little much to take the hammer to them before giving them a chance to prove themselves.
 

eqb

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I do agree that experience can get things done better and faster, but sometimes the only way to get experience is to do things.

As the saying goes, publishing is not an entry level business. The way publishers get experience is by working for other publishers before they strike out on their own. Same holds true for agents.

As I said before, each writer needs to make their own decisions and I would hope everyone does their research and determines for themselves how much of risk they are willing to take before committing.

That's a given here, and anywhere.

As part of that research, for anyone who might be reading here, do check out the list of publishers in Bewares & Background Checks.

And as a footnote, it astonishes me the level of vitriol that's come out in this one thread. It's not something I'm used to seeing on AW. I would understand it better had LD already proven to be a scam publisher. But as they've just started and, to my knowledge, don't have any scammers or "evil editors" on their employment lists, it seems a little much to take the hammer to them before giving them a chance to prove themselves.

I see no vitriol on this thread. I do see blunt questions, which *is* standard for AW.

And yes, LD is clearly not a scammer. They are merely well-meaning but gormless. But the threads of AW are filled with well-meaning, inexperienced publishers who fail after a year, sometimes two, but only after causing their authors much agony. Hence, the warning to wait until LD proves themselves.
 

eqb

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Speaking of Bewares, Recommendations, & Background Checks, I've asked the mods about splitting off the discussion about LD's experience, etc. and moving it to BR&BC, since it's really more suited to that forum.
 

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And as a footnote, it astonishes me the level of vitriol that's come out in this one thread.


It astonishes me that tough questions asked with the cynicism of experience can be interpreted as "vitriol." No one has insulted LazyDay, and the questions have all been perfectly fair and reasonable. I agree with everyone else that they seem sincere and above-board, but they also seem rather clueless. I hear a lot of MBA market-speak about their big ideas, but not a lot of cluefulness about how to edit and publish books. If all you need is enthusiasm and a business plan to succeed, then every start-up would be a success story. They've been raked over the coals for sounding naive and inexperienced and unprepared for writers asking them hard questions instead of just saying, "Squeeee! New publisher!"
 

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Vitriol? Good Lord, what's vitriolic about this thread?

When a writer signs with a publisher, e-pub or otherwise, they are signing over the rights to publish their work. When an e-pub goes under, they take a lot of writers with them. Want a cautionary tale? Look up what happened to the Triskelion writers! or Mardi Gras! I'll tell you what happened right after those e-pubs went under--other publishers (like Aspen Mountain Pres) were inundated with submissions of already released material by authors who'd not only been stranded by their publishers but in many cases hadn't been paid their royalties and couldn't get the rights to their work back.

And you call this vitriol?

You want vitriol? Track down some of the authors involved with those debacles and ask them to share their stories. ANY new publisher, print or e-pub, should be carefully inspected by any writer submitting to them. And ANY new publisher who is sincere about wanting to do well by their writers should have no problem answering these questions without getting defensive. Lazy Day has done so, for which I applaud them, but that doesn't ameliorate the facts of the business and it's not out of line for anyone here to ask tough questions. Nor is it vitriolic. It's common sense and good business.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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And yes, LD is clearly not a scammer. They are merely well-meaning but gormless. But the threads of AW are filled with well-meaning, inexperienced publishers who fail after a year, sometimes two, but only after causing their authors much agony. Hence, the warning to wait until LD proves themselves.

QFT

We'll see where things stand in a year or two, but I wouldn't submit to a press that hasn't any sort of track record - not to mention, little/no publishing experience.

If you want to take a chance on them, go ahead - but realize all the potential problems here.

There are plenty of established publishers out there taking submissions. Why not go there?

jmo, ymmv.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Known publisher + known writers = good
Unknown publisher + known writers = okay
Known publisher + unknown writers = okay
Unknown publisher + unknown writers = possible trouble

Before a publisher starts up they should be well-enough well known/have a good-enough reputation in the publishing world that they have a year's worth of manuscripts from well-known authors lined up to power their launch.
 

eqb

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Scanning the LazyDay blog, I see that the publishers still don't get it. While they have not engaged in the usual name-calling here on AW, they did just that on their blog:

http://lazydaypub.com/blog/?p=65

Sigh. These latest blog posts alone convince me that they are a poor choice for authors.