'These issues aren't appropriate for age 9+ children?'

My son will be 9 in October and as such will enter 3rd grade. There is no way in hell that I would let him read a book with that subject matter. Since I'm the one who buys the books, he won't be reading something like that. Kids tend to read up so he wants to read about characters who are 11-12 years old. (Think Harry Potter)

So if your main character is 9, that means your target audience is around 7. I don't think it's likely that parents will buy books with those topics for kids that age.

Maybe it could be done with an MC around 12-13 and still fall within MG, (and be more appropriate) definitely doable in YA.

Those are just my opinions though.

It depends. I think it's a very personal issue. Some people may think it's too heavy a subject, most of all if it's the MC themselves dealing with harming. I don't have any history with it and I'm not a parent, but my best friend in middle school harmed and I always felt helpless about being able to do anything. I was much older than nine...
I think it's all in how you frame it, honestly. It happens and acting like it doesn't helps no one, but at that early age I think showing the hard details isn't as important as dealing with the emotional 'whys' of it all and giving hope in equal measure.

It isn't so much the issue as it is the way the writer handles the issue. The only way on earth I'd allow my kids to read books about such things is if my child actually had the issue, but it is largely about how you handle it. Whatever the issue you're writing about, it must be handled in a way that's appropriate for children of that age. This is not easy to do, but it's probably possible.

This subject matter is definitely YA rather than MG, IMO. As a parent there is no way I'd want a 9 yo reading about self-harming -- kids are growing up too fast these days as it is!

Add another to the "parents who wouldn't have wanted this in my young children's books." Having been very involved in the grade school, I didn't see cutting as an issue among the 5th grade and under set. In 6th grade there are more issues, but, as someone upthread mentioned, 6th graders are most likely reading YA.

That said, if your intent is to write something helpful for young children dealing with feelings that result in self-harm, there's a way to do it. It's using it as a "story element" that would make me balk.

9 years old is not upper MG. It's lower MG. In lower MG, I would be shocked to see cutting.

Upper MG readers are older. Your main characters are often 13 or 14, and the readers are usually at least 11. For this audience, the issue of cutting could work if handled properly. I still wouldn't be too graphic about it, though.

While in the harsh reality of the world I do recognise awful things happen to young children, as a mum I believe my job is to help my kids live in their little bubble of bliss for as long as they possibly can. So there is no way I would let my children read about these types of topics for entertainment purposes.

I can see a scope for this type of story for use by professionals as a support tool for young children who have been exposed to, or have experienced these types of situations.

RKen1 said:

I have researched the issue.

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Then your post is more about asking

RKen1 said:

I'd be very curious to learn and get advice/thoughts from others who have explored such issues in their writing.

Also, are there any examples people recommend I investigate?

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Just clarifying.

My recommendations are Australian-based and probably not as helpful as all that. I wanted to say, though, that whether or not other writers feel the topic is appropriate is not the point. (I don't, for what it's worth, but that's neither here nor there.) The fact is that some readers may find it helpful - whether they're children or people who have children or who work with children. It will sell, or not. When you're moving into this kind of territory, you're probably not only doing it for the sales - or you probably shouldn't be. There are easier things to sell.

RKen1 said:

what are people's thoughts on this generally (although it strictly only self-harm that I've personally written about)? Are such topics really suitable or appropriate within the upper MG context?

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That's my thoughts on the topic.

My mother wouldn't of purchased books like that for me when I was that age. I read Brothers Grimm, Mythology, Anne Rice etc. but she wouldn't of purchased a modern childrens book that dealt with the subject, even when she didn't restrict what I read out of books we already owned.

Me? Personally if I had a child of the target age, I wouldn't buy it for them either. It's one thing to allow a child free reign of the books you already own, but another to specifically buy a book including the topic you're asking about. Most parents try to strike the balance between not stifling what their little bookworms read, and what they will bring into the home with the sole purpose of said little one to be reading.

RKen1 said:

Re any query about the age group who actually do this, although much lower in number than teens, there is now significant data and evidence that children younger than that are now engaging in such practices. I have researched the issue.

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It seems like the thread has moved on and you've pretty well made your decisions about whether you're going to write it. And it's fine if you do, as you've said you've done the research and handled it sensitively. That done, the only way to know if it's going to work is to write it and query it. If it's only a backstory point, as you mentioned, then you can certainly remove it or downplay it if it catches you some flack.

But I do want to say that I think there's a difference between children of a certain age doing something and the appropriateness of the topic in reading material for the group as a whole. This might not apply to you—as you've said you don't focus on it as a plot point (i.e., it's not a self-harm issues book)—but nevertheless, as a discussion point...

I feel like, while some nine-year-old readers may cut, the majority do not and the average nine-year-old reader might not have much exposure to the concept or an easy time processing the idea as a story point. Older kids could, but there's an age—and I'm not entirely sure where that line is for this topic—where average kids without this issue will cock their heads to the side and just not get it. When my niece was nine, there were a lot of "things that teens and adults do" that she simply just didn't get because "why?" and "that's dumb" and "they should just stop." So while, yeah, specific younger kids might do a thing, you have to gauge whether your target audience is going to get it or be confused about it for a few more years until they can grasp the psychology driving it a little better.

I think in general these topics are in general much more suited for YA or at least upper MG, because that's the age where these behaviors become an issue. When kids hit their teens, they are much more likely to know somebody who is dealing with these issues, or to be dealing with it themselves, or failing a personal connection, they at least have the ability to understand the emotional stakes.

This is a complicated subject. Silence and stigma around suicide and depression can stop people from seeking help, and yet exposure to suicidal imagery is linked to increased suicide rates. The effect of suicidal imagery or certain types of media coverage has been demonstrated not just by one study, but by many. I think all the studies involve either visual media like TV/movies or news coverage rather than novels, though.

Here's a link directed at news reporters: http://reportingonsuicide.org/Recommendations2012.pdf
It doesn't directly relate to how to cover suicide in fiction, but it's interesting stuff.

I'm surprised at how many parents say they pick their kids' books. My mom used to just turn me loose in the library. But when I go to my current branch, everything from lower MG to borderline YA to stuff that could be just regular fiction but somehow got categorized as YA is all shelved together. Short children's NF gets shelved with picture books. Longer children's NF gets shelved with adult NF. The kids must be finding the books somehow because the best ones are always checked out, but I swear I don't know how! I mean, short and sweet Tumtum and Nutmeg is side by side with Michael Chabon's wonderful but lengthy Summerland, and over in the paperback section Lloyd Alexander adventures are chilling with Ben Aaronovich's excellent but grisly Rivers of London series.

Haha, that was no help at all, was it?

killdeer said:

I'm surprised at how many parents say they pick their kids' books. My mom used to just turn me loose in the library.

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Libraries have pretty clear guidelines on what's appropriate for kids - those books have already been chosen with pretty full knowledge. But I think (if you're talking about 9 year olds) it's a good idea for parents to have some idea about the books they're buying for their kids. It makes sense - as much as anything in order that they can draw the child's attention to new authors, new titles, new ideas.

I always did it. I would never have read Terry Pratchett (and my son might not have read him for years) if it wasn't for me having an interest in what was new and likely to engage him - and having a good young bookseller who knew his stuff.

Imagine a life without ever meeting Nanny Ogg - or Death - or the Luggage. Doesn't bear thinking about.

mccardey said:

Libraries have pretty clear guidelines on what's appropriate for kids - those books have already been chosen with pretty full knowledge.

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Sure, and all the titles I mentioned are great books. I was just surprised that titles weren't split up more by target age. The difference in required reading ability from Tumtum and Nutmeg to Summerland is pretty sharp.

But I think (if you're talking about 9 year olds) it's a good idea for parents to have some idea about the books they're buying for their kids. It makes sense - as much as anything in order that they can draw the child's attention to new authors, new titles, new ideas.

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Oh, parents should definitely know what they're buying! That was literal surprise, not "disapproving" surprise. I guess I didn't actually own many books as a girl. We were a "reading" family, but it mostly revolved around the library, and my parents never chose my library books. Usually if I got a book, it's because I asked my mom for a library favorite for Christmas or my birthday.

Imagine a life without ever meeting Nanny Ogg - or Death - or the Luggage. Doesn't bear thinking about.

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*shudders in horror*

My ma never picked out my books when I was growing up but I remember being taken aback if I picked up a book when I was 12 thinking it was going to be a light story about two friends making their way through school and finding out it was a very heavy handed 'message' book about illness. Of course, I'm sure writing on the subjects has gotten much better than those old dusty books from the 70's I found back then...

As a dad of two (9 & 12) I'm really not sure how I would handle either of them asking me about self harming that they read about in a book. My first instinct would be to have a look and then more than likely tell them this was an adult book and stop them from reading it.

It's difficult because I don't like to shield my kids from the bad stuff in life but I would be concerned that they might see it as a viable act should things get too bad. My son already thinks the world is against him at 12 years old FCOL!!
8O

Personally, I don't think I'd write about it in a book aimed at young children.

I don't see it as inappropriate to include darker subjects handled in an age-appropriate way. It will limit the sales of the book for sure, but that's not the same as saying it won't have a target audience. A lot of children live those darker things, so might appreciate seeing a character facing the same issues. But you will have to face that some people will not want their children reading the book because of the content, and that's going to be a factor in selling the book.

Someone mentioned that kids these days are growing up fast enough as it is. That's exactly the reason a book like this is a good idea (depending on how it's expressed/handled obviously). Times have changed. More and more, upper KS2 kids are reading books that would have been more traditionally aimed at teens. I see ten year-olds reading books like The Hunger Games all the time, books centered around bloody violence, and what some regard as 'taboo' topics. Why should the topic of self-harm be any different? When I was eight, I read Watership Down for the first time and loved it. Despite being about 'rabbits', there was a distinctly adult tone to it. There are some kids who are naturally melancholic who will appreciate books like this.

The writer should go with his gut. If he's seen other writers address the same issue, then why not? There is nothing wrong with creating awareness - if anything, it's essential to do so in a day and age where self-harm has been highlighted among society. I started self-harming when I was 13. I had never come across a book that addressed the topic. Perhaps if I had, it would have helped prepare me. Maybe, maybe not. But thirteen years ago, the topic of self-harm was not as wide-spread as it is now; kids need to be educated on this. And anyone who thinks that these types of books can actively influence kids to self-harm/suicide ... I don't buy that. Not if the book is written in a certain way - where it's not 'glorified' or in any way makes the character appear 'special'. It's a tricky one - you would really have to be mindful of writing a story like this.

All in all, if you feel you can address this issue in a way that children can understand, and in an ultimately positive way, then go for it. Anyone who doesn't like this type of book simply doesn't like the horrors that come with it; understandably they want to protect their kids. But there are plenty of horrors in this world and there are plenty of kids who'll one day find themselves self-harming out of the blue. Maybe a book like this could have prepared them. Give them something to relate to. I hope you press on with it. Just be mindful of the information you put in your book. Books like this need positive outcomes because I'd go so far as to say a story like this can be a coping mechanism.

This is a hard thing to classify when dealing with these issues. A lot of parents are going to speak out against it, but sadly, these things happen in this age group in real life. I've known kids around this age who have killed themselves and I've run into kids who were suicidal about things at that age. On one hand, you could say 'absolutely not!' But on the other hand, it's a very real issue that should be talked about openly to help those who need it.

And honestly, it's really not that bad considering when I was that age, we read the diary of Anne Frank and The Devil's Arithmetic when I was around 12 or so for school.

Would I let my kids read it? Yes, but I'd be having talks with them about it, making sure they understood that suicide is NOT the answer and there is help there. And I would encourage them to reach out to other people. Because sadly, growing up, I've had a friend that killed himself around that age and I sometimes wonder 'what if/what could I have done/why?'

Just had to pitch in again -- the last two posts mention the ages 13 and 12 having issues/ reading more adult material. There is an absolute gulf between a 9 year old and a 12 year old developmentally and emotionally. Therefore regarding sensitive issues like self-harming, I don't think the middle-grade age range should apply. Perhaps the OP should pitch as an upper middle-grade?

I haven't read enough MG to know what the market finds appropriate, but one thing you might want to do is to ask this question to various agents using the #askagent hashtag. Quite a few agents hold #askagent sessions regularly. I think Juliet Mushens, who is based in the UK, does one every Sunday. You could also ask this question on agent Maria Vicente's blog. She's very good with replying super fast. They probably have a better idea of what would be okay for MG.