So I wrote a children's book

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

and I have no idea what to do next. I am so overwhelmed by all the info here. I've read several of the stickies but I am still feeling lost.

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

OK. *pulls up chair, rolls up sleeves* Whaddaya got?

EMaree · Jan 7, 2014

Put it away for a bit, write something else, then go back and revise it.

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

Torgo - I got a story that will be a picture book. I was super relieved to find out that publishers don't want the art, becuase all I got is text!

Emaree. Ok I wrote it in September. I haven't looked at it since. So I'll look at it this week to revise. Thanks.

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

Cool! Have you tried breaking it down into pages (probably 14 spreads?) That can really help when revising a pb text.

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

I will try that thanks. (I assume you mean how it might be laid out.)

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

sassandgroove said:
I will try that thanks. (I assume you mean how it might be laid out.)

Yeah - not precisely where the words are on the page, but which words are assigned to each page. Get reveals working on page turns, look for big 2-page splash illustration possibilities, that sort of thing.

Cella · Jan 7, 2014

Good job, Sass! I hope things go well for you on this!

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

Torgo said:
Yeah - not precisely where the words are on the page, but which words are assigned to each page. Get reveals working on page turns, look for big 2-page splash illustration possibilities, that sort of thing.

I willl do that, thanks. But isn't that ultimately up to the publisher? (should I ever reach that point.)
I really appreciate your input.

THanks Cella!

Cella · Jan 7, 2014

You're welcome. And I'll admit up front that I'm going to follow this thread for selfish reasons, but I am genuinely happy for you!

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

sassandgroove said:
I willl do that, thanks. But isn't that ultimately up to the publisher? (should I ever reach that point.)

If the book's picked up by a publisher, their editor and art director will take a look at that in conjunction with you and the artist. But picture books texts do need to be written with some structure in mind - in this case, the constraints (and the opportunities offered) by the 32pp.

So, see OWL BABIES by Waddell and Benson. Martin Waddell writes a story about anxious baby owls waiting for mummy owl to come home; he ramps up the anxiety up steadily, leavening it here and there, and by 3/4 of the way through the book the reader (and the owls) are on tenterhooks. There's no way Waddell didn't plan the next spread - a glorious swoop across the double page-spread from beautiful mummy owl, with just the words AND SHE CAME. That's the big emotional payoff of the book, so he assigned it a big full-bleed image.

You don't need to be prescriptive, really, just understand the beats and the moments in the story and begin to think about how you can use inbuilt structure of the picture book format - at the most basic, page turn reveals and double-page splashes - to accentuate them.

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

the more the merrier.

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

Torgo said:
If the book's picked up by a publisher, their editor and art director will take a look at that in conjunction with you and the artist. But picture books texts do need to be written with some structure in mind - in this case, the constraints (and the opportunities offered) by the 32pp.

So, see OWL BABIES by Waddell and Benson. Martin Waddell writes a story about anxious baby owls waiting for mummy owl to come home; he ramps up the anxiety up steadily, leavening it here and there, and by 3/4 of the way through the book the reader (and the owls) are on tenterhooks. There's no way Waddell didn't plan the next spread - a glorious swoop across the double page-spread from beautiful mummy owl, with just the words AND SHE CAME. That's the big emotional payoff of the book, so he assigned it a big full-bleed image.

You don't need to be prescriptive, really, just understand the beats and the moments in the story and begin to think about how you can use inbuilt structure of the picture book format - at the most basic, page turn reveals and double-page splashes - to accentuate them.

thank you! I will get that book. this makes so much sense.

sassandgroove · Jan 7, 2014

I just ordered it at amazon.

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

sassandgroove said:
I just ordered it at amazon.

It's great. Beautiful art from Patrick Benson. It even has three owls - Sarah, Percy and Bill - at slightly different ages, so it works brilliantly reading with more than one kid as well.

Waddell is the master, I think, of the 'big hug' book - the anxiety-relieved story. See also Can't You Sleep, Little Bear?, another classic.

escritora · Jan 7, 2014

Torgo said:
So, see OWL BABIES by Waddell and Benson. Martin Waddell writes a story about anxious baby owls waiting for mummy owl to come home; he ramps up the anxiety up steadily, leavening it here and there, and by 3/4 of the way through the book the reader (and the owls) are on tenterhooks. There's no way Waddell didn't plan the next spread - a glorious swoop across the double page-spread from beautiful mummy owl, with just the words AND SHE CAME. That's the big emotional payoff of the book, so he assigned it a big full-bleed image.

Quick question: In a case where a writer imagines a double spread, it is okay to mention it in the manuscript? Or should that discussion happen after the book gets picked up.

Torgo · Jan 7, 2014

escritora said:
Quick question: In a case where a writer imagines a double spread, it is okay to mention it in the manuscript? Or should that discussion happen after the book gets picked up.

I like to get picture book texts with the author's sense of the page breaks indicated - just break it up with page numbers. It's generally understood they're subject to change, and they do the job of showing the structure very economically. So Waddell's script for that Owl Babies spread was probably just:

18.
AND SHE CAME
20.
[etc.]

It says he's imagining a double-page spread, it's pretty clear what he's thinking; he doesn't really need an illustration note, right?

escritora · Jan 7, 2014

Ah, yes. That makes sense.

Thanks, Torgo.

Debbie V · Jan 13, 2014

Another benefit of mapping out the spreads for yourself, is it forces you to think about what will be illustrated and what won't. You can cut text that describes anything that will be clear from the illustration.

Illustration notes are generally frowned upon unless the text is incomprehensible without them.

I very much recommend going to the library or a book store and looking at picture books. Think about what is written and what is shown. Think about how the author builds tension. Think about what makes the reader just desperate to see what happens on the next page rather than what his big brother is doing on the new video game.

Many structures work for picture books. A good study will introduce you to options and help you decide what is best for your book in progress.

Good luck.

sassandgroove · Jan 13, 2014

Thanks Debbie!
That makes a lot of sense.

I rec'd the Owl Babies book. What struck me is really how simple it is. I think I may need to do exactly what you've said, lay it out to see what would be in the illustration and cut some text. I think I also need to visit the library and read some more children's books. And look at the ones I liked when I was a kid. I just remembered my dad sent me the books that were still at my parents house a few months ago.

Undercover · Jan 13, 2014

Knowonder comes to mind. They seem pretty good. I'll try to think of some more you can submit to directly. Unless you're looking for an agent first?

The Verla Kay Message Boards are good to look into too if you haven't already done so.
http://www.scbwi.org/boards/

Good luck with it!

sassandgroove · Apr 13, 2014

Do I need to look for an agent first?

sassandgroove · Apr 13, 2014

I posted it in SYW if anyone is interested. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8810967#post8810967
any help is appreciated.

jasperd · Apr 13, 2014

sassandgroove,

You may want to check into picking up a copy of Children's Writer's and Illustrator's Market, if you don't already have one. It lists agents and publishers that accept picture books.

Also, check out scbwi.org. You can find workshops and events for children's writers.

Good luck!

sassandgroove · Apr 14, 2014

thanks Jasperd.

So I wrote a children's book

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