Is this the new norm ****

francist44 · Nov 19, 2014

I have come across the below submission requirement a few times recently. Is this the new standard? Whereas it will be easy to remove for publishers not requiring such with the REPLACE feature, should I start my next work with this in mind?Grrr it's going to be a real PIA to add to my completed manuscripts.

Scene breaks (POV shifts, etc.) should be indicated by four asterisks **** on a single centered line, with a blank line above and below

Cathy C · Nov 19, 2014

It's not new. It's a variation on the pound/number sign (#) against the left margin. I've had editors who preferred centered asterisks. :Shrug:

But definitely not new. Sorry it'll be a PITA. But pretty much everyone wants some sort of definable symbol on scene breaks.

francist44 · Nov 19, 2014

Cathy C said:
It's not new. It's a variation on the pound/number sign (#) against the left margin. I've had editors who preferred centered asterisks. But definitely not new. Sorry it'll be a PITA. But pretty much everyone wants some sort of definable symbol on scene breaks.

Rats!
Oh well, vol I is only 165k words. I should get it done by............................... One last question on this, how major must the scene break be to require the **** ?

Thanks for info.

amergina · Nov 19, 2014

Basically, anywhere there would be a blank line between scenes is where you'd put the indicator.

Drachen Jager · Nov 19, 2014

You should have some kind of standard scene break marker now. Can't you just find/replace? I've always just used # centered on an empty line and never heard any complaints (but then again, that's a really easy find/replace, since I never use # elsewhere)

Filigree · Nov 19, 2014

I use # in draft, then replace it with whatever's needed. **** is a total PITA otherwise, because my version of Word really wants that to be a solid black line. Which is harder to edit than it should be.

On the other hand, getting in the habit of showing scene breaks helps me stay in deep POV with the right characters. I was much sloppier before.

Lena Hillbrand · Nov 19, 2014

I usually do a single * but I don't think I leave blank space above and below. But, as Drachen said, I don't use it elsewhere so a search is pretty easy. I wonder if you can search for a blank line (if that's what you have now). I would try it. I search for double-space in each MS, but haven't for a blank line.

TessB · Nov 19, 2014

If you search for ^p, it will get all your hard returns. ^p^p should get blank lines -- replace those with ^p**** and that should work...

Antonin · Nov 19, 2014

Well I feel like an idiot. I had no idea this was a standardized thing.

:foilhat:

francist44 · Nov 19, 2014

I start and end my chapters with major scene breaks: issue resolutions, POV shifts, location changes etc. Should I actually consider any blank line reason enough for a scene change?

Thanks for the help people.

EMaree · Nov 20, 2014

Hmmm. I've always used '***'... a habit I picked up from print books, I think. Four asterixes instead of three is a new one of me. Have I been going against the grain this whole time?

Deb Kinnard · Nov 20, 2014

My small press wants five *****, so that's what I do in my self-published work as well. At least it has the advantage of being clear.

I do a scene break whenever I change POV from MC #1 to MC #2. Sometimes that's a page or two, sometimes a lot more. Depends on what the story needs.

I think we're going to be seeing more of this, to better serve the readers who buy e-books. A scene break thus marked stands out better on the device, at least that's been my impression when I read on my Kindle.

Turhan · Nov 20, 2014

I use '***' for scene breaks, I like odd numbers for some reason, maybe because I am ...

Cathy C · Nov 20, 2014

francist44 said:
I start and end my chapters with major scene breaks: issue resolutions, POV shifts, location changes etc. Should I actually consider any blank line reason enough for a scene change?

Thanks for the help people.

Chapter breaks are different. They already have their own built in breaks (being the chapter heading). It's just scene breaks within the chapter that need the asterisks. So, yes:

POV changes
Time of day shifts
Location changes (which usually means a time shift too)

all call for scene breaks and indicators.

francist44 · Nov 20, 2014

I think I understand it better now; again, thanks to all. I apparently have some editing to do.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 21, 2014

It's not new, but it is stupid. Four asterisks mean nothing, however much a given editor likes them. All typesetters, and every editor I know, uses proofreaders' marks. There is NO other way for everyone to know what a given symbol means. We were all taught proofreaders' marks in seventh grade or earlier, and used them all the way through college. Editors and typesetters still use them, unless they're simply ignorant.

Fortunately, I've never seen a legitimate source saying to use anything else. Not that most writers have a clue what proofreaders' marks are until they get a copy edited manuscript back. Any editor or typesetter will probably figure out what you mean, but using asterisks is still a dumb move, and I'd never, ever trust an editor who asked for them.

Agents, on the other hand, are usually neither writers nor editors, and I ignore them in favor of what I know editors and typesetters can actually read, and were actually taught.

francist44 · Nov 22, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
It's not new, but it is stupid. Four asterisks mean nothing, however much a given editor likes them. All typesetters, and every editor I know, uses proofreaders' marks. There is NO other way for everyone to know what a given symbol means. We were all taught proofreaders' marks in seventh grade or earlier, and used them all the way through college. Editors and typesetters still use them, unless they're simply ignorant.

Fortunately, I've never seen a legitimate source saying to use anything else. Not that most writers have a clue what proofreaders' marks are until they get a copy edited manuscript back. Any editor or typesetter will probably figure out what you mean, but using asterisks is still a dumb move, and I'd never, ever trust an editor who asked for them.

Agents, on the other hand, are usually neither writers nor editors, and I ignore them in favor of what I know editors and typesetters can actually read, and were actually taught.

Thanks
Since this publisher wants **** that's what he'll get. Whereas, I can do a replace with whatever another publisher wants or delete them, I may as well go that route.

Is this the new norm ****

francist44

Tenacious to a fault

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

francist44

Tenacious to a fault

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

Lena Hillbrand

TessB

The Boxing Baroness

Antonin

▐п╣�▀╪? ╧ы§�Й!

francist44

Tenacious to a fault

EMaree

a demon for tea

Deb Kinnard

Turhan

Someone

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

francist44

Tenacious to a fault

Jamesaritchie

francist44

Tenacious to a fault