The Next Circle of Hell

In my experience it's not only possible but likely that you'll be dropped if your first doesn't get published and also if it gets published and doesn't sell enough.

But that may depend on how excited they are by your next project.

Massive sympathies Callalily and the rest of you! People keep telling me how lucky I am to have an agent, and I know I am, I really do. But...I've had my agent for almost two years...still no sale. He's a great agent, he's done really well for many of his other clients (down, evil jealous demons, down) and he loves my book, and is still convinced it will sell. I'm trying to continue to believe him. I've also had a couple of really nice editor rejections - somehow those are worse, too...
I thought getting an agent meant, well, you know. Stuff. Book sales. My name, if not in lights, at least on a bookshop shelf somewhere. But if it's any comfort I've spoken to a couple of people (one now a well-known fantasy writer) whose books were actually accepted by an agent, then sold to a publisher - then dumped just before actual publication. That's gotta be worse.
I'm on rewrite on the next book, and 30,000 words into the first draft of the one after that. Keeping on writing is the only thing that stops me brooding about my darling baby being turned away, unloved and unwanted, into the howling blizzard...sniff...after getting so damn close.
So, yeah. I do know what you mean.

Yeah, rejections from actual real live publishers hurt worse, which is why I get my agent not to tell me about the straight rejections as they come in. If it's "rejection with comments" (e.g. we'd like it if you changed the ending, oh and the beginning, and the middle could use some work") then I want to know - there may be a pattern emerging (e.g. everyone says "lose the Latvian dwarf"). Otherwise it's just plain depressing, and I'm sure your agent will understand if you want him/her to gloss over the rejections until the end of the submission process. Then it's OK for them to provide you with a summary, such as "37 "Not for us", 5 "with comments", 2 "show me the next one". (I ask for the summary not because I'm a masochist, but I want to be sure it's done the rounds, not gone to one or two.)

Do whatever it takes you to get over the rejections - I view it like directors auditioning for parts, they have something specific in their mind, and if you don't fit the part, it doesn't matter how brilliant you are: you don't get that part, that director, that day. Another day, you will be exactly right. And sometimes they remember you favourably.

If your first book doesn't sell, I wouldn't assume that your agent is going to drop you. I've heard plenty of stories about the first book not selling and the agent selling the second or third. To say them dropping you is possible is true, but saying it's likely...well, that seems like a big generalization, and one that isn't necessarily accurate.

And if you go into your agent-author relationship thinking that, I think it'll just stress you out more, make you anxious, and possibly make your relationship awkward...like you're always approaching your agent with suspicion that they'll leave you behind at any moment.

You know what would be helpful? Some all-inclusive, all-accurate statistics on everything writing, agenting, and publishing. Someone should really get on that.

I also agree with all of you who are saying publisher rejections really hurt, because, yes, it seems so close. These editors, some of whom liked it but just not enough, have the power to actually publish you, a power that, though they're awesome, agents just don't have.

juneafternoon said:

Is it customary for agents to drop you if they didn't sell your first book? I've heard of authors being picked up on their second agented work... I would really hate to be dropped from an agent like that Pressure's big.

Click to expand...

I don't know if it's customary but my NY agent gave up after a year. I was kind of glad he did so I didn't have to do it. He forwarded all the rejection letters and I realized he'd been targeting the wrong sort of publishers. I used the editors' comments to make revisions and then sold it myself. The novel has done quite well and is still selling. I'm hesitant to contact agents for my second book as I really don't want to waste a year with someone who may not know the historical market. I've learned something from the process, though. I'm not looking for a big name agent, I'm looking for an agent who knows and is successful in selling historicals. I'm in this for the long haul. For example, I'd originally considered Donald Maass. He is or was, Jack Whyte's agent and Jack is a bestelling historical author. However, my concern is that Mr. Maass may be concentrating most of his energies on promoting his own books and writing. I would caution all writers, myself included, to really do their homework when deciding which agents to approach. A bad agent can be a huge waste of time. A good agent is one who is not only enthusiastic but an aggressive and skilled promoter.
Linnea

To avoid a break in an agent/author relationship, as a result of a book not being picked up, it's highly advisable that you're busy on your next title the minute your agent starts the shopping process. If you time it right, you'll have that next book written and polished by the time the first book has exhausted all leads. If you're a solid producer, there is no way an agent is likely to drop you. A book usually wears out on the submission trail from nine to twenty months. That's an approximate. In my case, 18 months is about the death toll, but there are agents out there that will champion a book for several years. DO NOT SIT ON ONE REPPED BOOK, WAITING FOR A SALE.

One snag...

To make sure that the agent is going to look favorably on your next book, I usually write the synopsis and first three chapters and send them to him and ask if this is something that they might be enthusiastic about. In other words, it has to ring their bell. I do this as a precautionary measure. My agent will take many things into consideration--if there is a market for it, if it has a good concept/premise--that all important hook, and so on. You don't really have to send the first three, but I would run the idea by them and ask for a yea or nay. Agree to hit on something that gives both of you the happy shivers.

There is nothing more devastating that writing full tilt on something, spending six months, and then having your agent tell you that it isn't going to fly. Your agent has to fall in love with it, too. I had this happen to me. Fortunately it was a trunk novel that I brought out of moth balls and reworked. He still did not like it. That's one that didn't get through the gate.

Hint: Ask your agent what's hot out there. What are they looking for? What stands the best chance of being picked up? If he/she has an idea, and if it falls within your genre parameter, and you've got the voice/style to carry it off, go with it. You don't have to do this--it just ups your odds. I'm not saying to hack it. I'm saying to strategize with your agent. They have their pulse on the trends of the marketplace.

As far as agents dumping clients. I don't see a lot of that happening. What I see more is writers getting frustrated with their agents and dumping them. Case in point: I've been with my agent for 22 months. From the beginning, he had 29 fiction writers in his stable. Today he has 25. The evidence shows that three of those writers left him. He dropped the other client for personal reasons. He also represents a dead author, who started out with him at the very beginning. He made a vow that he would continue to champion that book out of respect to the estate. And, of course, he's wild about the book. Now, THAT'S diehard service going above and beyond the call of agenting. In anyone's book.

You're going to get genre "niched" whether you like it or not. I don't even think that's a word. Your maximum sales potential will come from a fan base that is launched from your first book. If it does even respectively well, you'll be encouraged to stay there, for strickly marketing considerations. It will do you no good to write all over the genre topography and hope that one of those books hit. Your agent will know where your strengths lie and tell you so. You have only to ask. When your last name is King or Koontz, you can play all over the sandbox if you like. Until then, try, try to specialize.

At the behest of my agent, I dropped science fiction. The market was just too tight for us to get in there. I had that same problem when I was repped by Richard Curtis 18 years ago. So I slid, rather comfortably, into paranormal thriller/romance and urban fantasy. The result has been that I'm getting exactly 45% more full reads in that category. My agent was right. I upped the odds. The transition wasn't hard--I love words anyway, and it's still spec fiction. I'm strong there--I feel it and I know it.

Don't irritate your agent with trivial or non-business type communications. Unless you're really best buds. Successful agents are REALY BUSY PEOPLE. I check in about every three weeks--sometimes a month. That's unless you're doing rewrites or hammering out a contract. New repped writers have a tendency to suffocate their agents with needless questions and pestering. Give 'em some breathing room, and everything should fall into place. Contrary to popular thought, they haven't forgotton about you. Their really dying to send you that all important editor's contract. You know the one you've been waiting for all your life?

Tri

triceretops said:

If you're a solid producer, there is no way an agent is likely to drop you.

Click to expand...

Before my agent offered representation, she called me, and she liked the fact that I already had a sequel for the manuscript I'd sent her. It's a crummy sequel that needs to be rewritten, but fortunately I also have another, unrelated book that can be pitched if this one doesn't work out. Agents want careers, not just individual books.

You're going to get genre "niched" whether you like it or not.

Click to expand...

I'm trying to focus on a very specific type of story - a fantasy set in a medieval world but incorporating a lot of science. So, for instance, the book that's out on submission could be summed up as "psychic powers plus crude machines". The next one is "dragons plus psychology" and the one after that is "magic plus chemistry". I don't see a lot of fantasy authors doing that, so hopefully mine will stand out.

I would love to read an ex-nun PI story.

rugcat said:

...But as I've said before, unless you're a simply astounding talent, it's basically still a crapshoot and it's out of your control.

Click to expand...

All of us need to have this inscribed above our front doors. Too many of us buy into the "if-it's-well-written-it's-sure-to-be-published" cheerleading, and get depressed and baffled when the industry doesn't show any interest.

Ask me how I know.

My agent signed me in early 2007 with a book that I now totally consider crap. But my agent is a huge name and I thought surely I would be celebrating soon.

So Not.

Nothing guarantees you that sale. Nothing.

Luckily, I looked around the market at what was selling, came up with an awesome idea, and pitched it to my agent before we got all the rejections from the first book. I was really worried she would drop me if two books didn't sell so the second submission was extra stressful for me. Luckily, it sold beautifully for four books and everything is great. But that doesn't change how nerve-wracking it was to get to that second book. I had been signed with my agent for ten months and two books before we hit it.

There is always hope, but there is never a guarantee.

A.

Hey Calla and everybody else, especially the hiccuping lurkers. I'm glad I finally figured out where the party was taking place.

Can someone please pass the Kahlua? I need it pretty bad.

My book has been out on submission since end of October now. Six rejections so far. We've been waiting on the same four publishers for all this time and are about to sub to round two. The waiting is killing me!!! I have been freelancing a lot and making very little progress on book two because every time I work on it, I'm ambushed by these demons that say "What if book one doesn't get published? What makes you think book two has a chance if book one doesn't get picked up?" At least with freelancing, I get paid and someone says I can write. For some reason, I need that validation desperately right now.

I haven't been coming on AW either because it kind of freaks me out to think about the book being with publishers.

Thanks for listening. The Kahlua sure is good. I'll be back with Margaritas and a bowl of chips with salsa.

I'm resurrecting this thread. Bear with me; I feel like rambling.

Two years ago I had three agents to choose from. It was the culmination of eight months of querying and submitting partials and fulls. One of the agents was sort of new to this top agency and hungry. His enthusiasm for my ms. was boundless. After two long phone calls, I signed with him. I knew he was already making two and three book deals with top publishing houses for his clients. Unfortunately he asked me to make major revisions that I didn't see as "right." Gut feeling, but I went along and did as I was asked. Happily so, since this was a great agent with a great agency.

After submitting to about 13 houses, he stopped. Said his agency didn't submit to smaller houses. (Not small, just smaller, than S&S.)

Meanwhile I had a synopsis and part of a first draft of another novel. He gave the go-ahead. Liked it. After months of working on it, he declined to send it out. I could totally revise it or try for another book. I felt he lost sight of my writing, what direction I wanted to go.

I parted amicably with him last September. I haven't looked back because I knew it just wasn't working. The problem is pretty soon I'll be doing the query thing with agents again. He said to mention him; I will. But I want to get an agent on the strength of my writing, too. And I want this next book to sell, and sell well.

What I've learned through all of this is to go with your gut. I wish I had originally signed with one of the other agents who was interested. (He was more established, not as hungry. And that's what I needed.) And then weigh his thoughts with mine, discuss it in detail, then decide which direction--together--I should go.

Rambling over. If you've read this far, and you're not asleep, thank you!

I haven't had an offer for representation yet, so for all I know, my writing could only be good in my imagination. If/when I find an agent to offer me representation, I can sleep easier knowing a professional is willing to put time and effort into my writing and believes it will make money... editors and publishers will surely reject it sometimes, but I don't think I'll feel as bad about that as I do being rejected by an agent.

Stormie, I would reestablish contact with those two prior agents, if I were you--straight off the bat. Use your new projects and explain what happened. I'm sorry to see this happen, but I must admit that 13 houses (major) was a pretty good sub string. But I'm a little perplexed that your original agent did not pursue the small and medium houses. Houses like Juno offer advances in the 500 to 750 range, as an example.

I made kind of a deal with my agent. If he exhausted all possibilities, then I was allowed to go on the submission trail for the small and medium publishers. If I hooked up with something I liked, he was to come in on the deal and see if he could better the contract. And this happened twice. I even pulled a small advance out of one, with a 25% on cover price clause, which was pretty damn amazing.

While you're searching for this new agent, compile a list of the best independent and small publishers--find out what they are offering. Start with the ones that have at least some distribution (like Samhain), or ones that get major trade reviews. Sometimes I look at Amazon numbers across the board to determine how well books are moving with a publisher. It's very arbritary, but it does give some indication of how popular their titles are.

Good luck with your new search. I think you've got the talent there to land another agent. Choose wisely.

Tri