POV question - sex scene strengthening vs politics?

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TessB

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Hi there! I'm new, and I hope it's okay if I come in here with a question about my current WIP. (Let me preface this by saying that I'm bi, and write queer erotic historical romance, so I'm starting from a position of some awareness.)

The setup is a gentleman trying to court two women secretly, only to discover that they've been in a relationship with each other long before he arrived on the scene. The HEA is a stable triad: the ladies are bi, he's het, the trouble with the getting there are internalized assumptions, trying to form a triad with no models of behaviour, and so forth.

The scene I'm having trouble with is the moment when he discovers they're on to his two-timing - the ladies punish him by tying him up and having their way with each other, instead.

Now there are so, SO many issues with F/F as performed solely for the male gaze (see every mainstream "lesbian" x-rated flick ever, etc). So I currently have the POV for that scene resting with one of the women, so that the scene focus is on the pleasure the ladies are having with each other.

On the other hand, F/F explicit doesn't sell nearly as well as anything involving dick, alas!

There's also the question of whether the scene would be more powerful if it were written from his perspective, fully engaging him in the triad in a way he currently isn't, as a neutralized observer.

tl;dr: If my HEA is a triad, should the non-participant be the POV for this scene, so that his emotions are engaged for the reader?

- Would I have a property that appeals more to my (majority) straight female market if I include peener in every sex scene? (all the following ones will involve dick applied directly).

- Or am I stepping in muddy water by having a male observer for a F/F scene at all, as that plays into every stereotype of requiring a male presence to 'legitimize' F/F passion?

(If it makes any difference, the first erotic scene in the book is an interrupted makeout session with just the ladies.)

Or am I overthinking everything and need to write the dratted book, and let my beta team argue about it after the fact?
 

Maryn

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It depends entirely on who your erotic fiction is intended to titillate. You want to keep the whole work, including every sex scene, aimed at your market.

So are you writing this book in the hope that bisexual women will buy it and find it arousing, or for the straight women who make up a much larger segment of the erotica readership?

I'm a huge fan of the single POV for the entire work, and would never consider changing it for just the sex scene. Whose head are you in for the rest of the book, one of the women's, or the dude's? That's a huge consideration in whose POV this sex scene should be in.

The book in my avatar is about a threesome consisting of two bisexual men and one straight woman, told from her POV. Although most of the buyers appear to be straight women, based on reviews, at least a couple of gay men have enjoyed it for the sex between the guys.

Since you're coming from direct experience, I imagine you can do the POV of one of the female characters quite well. In your shoes, I'd go with that, unless you have a compelling reason not to.

Maryn, not wearing anybody's shoes at the moment
 

TessB

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I've been eyeing your avatar pic for days now; it's going on my to-buy list next paycheque for sure now. :D (love triads!)

I'm assuming my market is straight women, primarily. The first book in the series is M/M/M (HEA is M/M), but the series itself will have some more variety between the books. I still don't want to disappoint folks who (will hopefully) have enjoyed book 1. (Though I wouldn't complain if it earned me a toaster or two. ;) )

I do switch POVs, primarily but not exclusively at chapter breaks. Book 1 was a bit simpler in that regard - the two heroes got POV sections and the jerkface antagonist did not; three sympathetic POVs is more than I've tried to juggle in a single work before.

Currently, chapter four begins so with the POV of Girl 1 - she uncovers the hero's attempt at duplicity, and reveals it to girl 2. I switch from there to his POV, arriving at the house of Girl 2, only to find both women there already. I have to admit that moment is a bit of a darling for me, with a decent "well, CRAP" jolt.

In the current draft, I switch to Girl 2, the most sexually aggressive and experienced of the group, and stay with her for the rest of the chapter. (The breakdown is something like 1k, 1k, 3k ish.)

So the issue, I suppose, is whether to stick with Boy and pick my way through so that it doesn't become Lesbianism as Performance Art For Men, or keep the current switch and pick my words carefully to avoid turning off the straight female reader. Hrm.
 
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tko

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I've been doing a lot of beta'ing recently, and I've seen a couple of cases where the author switched POV for a particular scene. In my opinion, it didn't work, and had the opposite effect.

If the reader has gotten this far in your novel, and has become involved, switching viewpoints at the last moment, even for the best of reasons, takes them out of the story. If I understand your commercial concerns correctly, how would a scene switch mid novel make a difference? The reader won't know until they buy the book.

Now, if you been switching POVs throughout the entire novel, built up to it, prepared the reader, it might work.
 

beckethm

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I guess I wouldn't worry too much about F/F sex offending your straight, female readership. (I'm saying this as a straight woman who occasionally reads F/F and M/M romance.) Presumably the people who buy the book in the first place will know it involves a polyamorous relationship and will be open to all the possibilities that implies.

I would, however, be offended if the scene were told from the male POV. The whole "Lesbianism as Performance Art for Men" trope, as you put it, is so overdone, and it's a big turn-off for me. It would be nice to see a woman-centered spin on that scenario.

If you feel the need to show the reader the man's reaction, find a way to give it after the fact.
 

Calliea

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This is just my personal opinion, so take it more as a sample than actual advice, but I don't think one scene like that will have any sort of off-putting impact, so I'd go with F/F. This way you avoid the stereotype (now that COULD have an off-putting effect), and if your straight female readership will with it not titillating (while looking for titillation), they can just skim over this one scene, because from what you say there's plenty others involving all parts present ;)

Variety is the spice of life. I believe it's always more fun to show something new and different from the rest of the content. Especially if it helps avoid going into potentially harmful stereotypes that you'd rather avoid.
 

TessB

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Yay, thank you! (and Heroine #2 thanks you, as she's having a grand old time.)

I'll be posing the question to my usual beta team as well, but the more data points on this one, the better. I'm really not in the right position to judge when it comes to figuring out if F/F or M/F is more appealing. ;)

After this one, if all goes according to plan, the rest should be F/M/F in various configurations. I have two more tentatively planned, but we'll see how the inspiration goes.
 

TessB

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In terms of erotic fantasy? Blue balls all over the place. It's a reversal of the power structure he thought he had in place - keeping two women dangling on his line. By taking charge and placing him in the submissive, excluded position, they're flipping his worldview over. At least when it comes to his romantic relationships.

(am I allowed to put a clip up as illustration? Not too explicit, and I'm not looking for critique. I have beta readers whom I trust implicitly who will be reading it over, and this is the very roughest of first drafts.)

--

“What do you intend to do with that?” He asked, standing and raising his hands before him in warning. “Tie me and leave me in the public square with a sign announcing my misdeeds?”

“Creative,” Meg approved. Sarah laughed, and James looked vaguely offended. “But no.”

“You can leave now, if you wish,” Sarah added, rising to the occasion and gulping down the last of her drink in one long swallow. She stood, resting one hand on the back of the simple wooden chair sitting by the fire. “But if you do, you won’t have a chance with either of us again.”

“And if I stay?”

“You won’t be harmed,” Meg reassured him. “Only you’ll have a chance to learn what it feels like, to see the object of your desires betray you.”

“I don’t think I like this offer,” he murmured, a vein working at the side of his jaw.

Sarah shook her head and, daringly, trailed her fingers across the lapel of his jacket only to poke him in the square chin. “Now imagine how we felt, who had no choice in the matter.”

He paused, opened his mouth to speak, then shut it again. “I am duly chastened.”

“In that case,” Meg said cheerfully, gesturing to the chair. “Sit yourself down, sir, and be corrected.” He sat, everything about him stiff and tense. Meg drew his hands behind the back of the chair, and with a few deft movements, bound his hands snugly in place, then his ankles to the chair legs. “Is this painful?” she asked, tugging on her knot to make sure that it would hold. He twisted his hands, his face set in what had to be a permanent state of shock and surprise by now, and coughed.

“No, that is, I am well comfortable, thank you; albeit extremely confused. Tell me, ladies, please; what happens next?” He asked, his voice strained.

Sarah stood still, her arms folded across her slim waist, and Meg stalked across the floor toward her. “To you?” Meg cast a look back over her shoulder to smile wickedly at him. “Absolutely nothing.”

--

Orgasm delay/orgasm denial is one heck of a power play / satisfying kink, if done properly. I'm sure my beta team will let me know if I've gotten too ridiculous with it, or if the setup feels unrealistic.
 
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