Typesetting, Formatting, Book Design for print - what to learn? InDesign?

I don't know that much about it, but I've used InDesign to publish magazines I've worked on in the past and we sent it to RR Donnelly which is the biggest printer in the US - that being said, when we sent it to them it was in PDF (specialized with their template, but still a PDF).

However, I feel like you really don't need it for most print books? If you have Word and a piece of cover art in a jpeg, you're probably in good shape. That is, unless you're graphics heavy. Or are doing lots of special text effects. Like House of Leaves had to have been done in InDesign.

It is quite a common belief in SP'ing circles that layout/typesetting/design is a simple thing to do yourself without much experience.

You said you want to put the time in, start with this article:

http://howpublishingreallyworks.blogspot.ca/2009/05/guest-post-how-book-design-affects.html

It's an older article but hammers home just what it is typesetting is all about. It's written by Maggie Dana (http://www.maggiedana.com/) who is a professional typesetter, and talented author. I'd encourage you to check out her site, and her books.

profen4 said:

It is quite a common belief in SP'ing circles that layout/typesetting/design is a simple thing to do yourself without much experience.

You said you want to put the time in, start with this article:

http://howpublishingreallyworks.blogspot.ca/2009/05/guest-post-how-book-design-affects.html

It's an older article but hammers home just what it is typesetting is all about. It's written by Maggie Dana (http://www.maggiedana.com/) who is a professional typesetter, and talented author. I'd encourage you to check out her site, and her books.

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Heh. That's my old blog you linked to. Happy days.

We've had lots of discussions here about typesetting over the years.

Good typesetting is not something you can learn simply by working out how to manipulate text with a computer programme. It's far more complex and intricate than that. Do you think you're an accountant if you know how to work a spreadsheet? Nope? There you go.

I've seen good typesetters in action. It takes years to know what's involved; years more to know how to do it properly. If a print book is poorly typeset you'll lose readers, who won't know exactly why they don't like your book: just that it feels wrong when they read it.

You can learn how to do it quite easily. But learning how to do it well? Years.

GretchenPaintedQuill said:

What do you suggest then? If this is day one of my years of learning?

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InDesign is, I think, what most people use. Honestly, many DIY self-publishers use word. I don't think all of them do that b/c they're clueless, or careless about the print versions of their products. I think most of the time it's because the return on investment isn't there. I know people who sell thousands and thousands, tens of thousands even, of eBooks and maybe 10 printed copies a year. So taking the time to learn typesetting, or paying someone hundreds, and hundreds to do it for you might not seem like the most lucrative investment.

It's a business decision.

I hire it out for my books. But I write MG and I sell a lot of print.

I asked my husband to weigh in. His opinion is it's not the tools so much as it is the skills and knowledge. Knowing the difference between such things as visual balance and mechanical balance, etc. (His skills have been built over years. He's an art director first, graphic designer second.)

His advice to you: start reading and learning. There's tons of information on the internet. Learn about balance and symmetry and readable type. Learn about the weight of the type versus the open space of the page.

The two links above should help! Good luck!

Old Hack said:

Heh. That's my old blog you linked to. Happy days.

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I forgot that was yours. I have it bookmarked and am constantly sending the link to people. Maggie Dana is a really great person to talk to also. So helpful, and I learned a ton about book production from her. Bonus that she's a crazy talented writer too.

Butterick's Practical Typography is a good starting point:

http://practicaltypography.com/

InDesign has a steep learning curve, and is pricey, and on top of that, there's the learning curve regarding setting type.

Keep in mind too that there are distinctions to be made about setting text for digital and for print.


[Book Production] Typography
Have you looked at the FAQ?

I tried all the less-than-$200 typesetting programs, evaluating them as I did the many years I was employed by Boeing & had such a job. I concluded that the one with the best balance of features, price, and ease of learning and use was Serif's PagePlus.

In the end I used Word. It's a poor typesetting tool, but usable if you learn it's foibles and have the patience to adjust for them. That's assuming you have a simple design for your book with only limited graphics. If you have more than that a typesetting tool is necessary. Or hiring an expert.

But your most important tool will be taste and your skill and knowledge of typesetting, not some piece of software. You don't need years to learn those for the very simplest projects, but you'll need to spend many hours studying the basics and some of the subtleties. I'd suggest hanging out in some of the forums devoted to typesetting before you devote time and money to doing anything.

Pricing ranges quite a bit, I'm afraid. And what you need is often tied to what you're looking to do (what market are you targeting, who will your printer be?). I found one person who did layout, for example, and could do it well for CS, but when I tried to use the same file for LSI it was rejected and they (the layout person) wasn't able to correct the file. Also, do they have experience with off-set? Because if you ever go that route with your books (and you might), the number of pages (or rather, what that number is divisible by) will impact your price. So having someone experienced with that side of the market is helpful too.

You can find people who will do layout pretty cheap, $100-$200 for a full length novel. And others who charge $2-$3 a page. Neither one is charging too low or too much. It really does come down to experience. Look at their portfolio. Ask where they learned the skills. I haven't heard of many that charge more than $3 a page unless you're doing some really fancy stuff with graphics or something.

since you asked, I have used Tammy Desnoyers (http://www.tammydesign.ca/Tammy_Design/welcome.html) who I have found to be reliable, on budget and highly experienced and provides all versions I require and have never had a problem with them. I have also heard very good things about: http://ebooklaunch.com/print-on-demand/, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

As profen4 said, prices do vary a lot. I can't imagine charging $2-3 a page unless the text was full of charts, tables, etc. I offer layout services myself (was in graphic design & prepress for 15 years) and my prices are based on word count. $100-$175 for 40k-130k. (Service menu here).

If you want references or samples, feel free to PM me.

LBlankenship said:

As profen4 said, prices do vary a lot. I can't imagine charging $2-3 a page unless the text was full of charts, tables, etc. I offer layout services myself (was in graphic design & prepress for 15 years) and my prices are based on word count. $100-$175 for 40k-130k. (Service menu here).

If you want references or samples, feel free to PM me.

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With experience and prices like that, I'll be contacting you next time I'm ready!!

You're not typesetting until you find an old Agfa Compugraphic terminal.

Word is fine for the basics, but I use InDesign for the more complex stuff. It works, but there's a big learning curve ahead, even with the multitude of tutorials out there.

If you google around, you can get Word Templates at under $70. Some of them are quite nice.