Lightning Source, Ingram Spark, and CreateSpace - oh my!

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So we are just starting out in this whole publishing endeavor. I understand that CreateSpace is Amazon... and my plan was to use CreateSpace for Amazon only and Lightning Source for everything else.

I'm confused about Lightning Source and Ingram Spark. I understand that Lightning Source isn't really intended for small publishers - not much hand holding etc. and they are directing small publishers over to their Ingram Spark branch. So is LS not even an option anymore?

I tried to get an account at LS and got an Ingram Spark referral email. Should I keep trying to get the Lightning Source account - or just use Ingram Spark? What are the real advantages/disadvantages?
 

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I'd go for Spark first, then I suppose LS could come later if you become big enough or if you get with a publisher?

I think you'll need different ISBNs for LS and CS for the same book by the way.
 
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Is there any real advantage to Lightning Source over Ingram Spark?

All I know that LS is really pushing Ingram Spark so my cynical side thinks there has to be a reason they are pushing it! I just don't know what that might be!

Here is their latest email to me:

Hello-

Just to clarify for you, Ingram Spark is operated by Lightning Source. So all Ingram Spark titles are printed in the quality that Lightning Source is known for in addition you get the same great wholesale distribution you get with Lightning Source. The main difference is the operating platform allows for small publishers to not have the expensive charges and overhead costs that come with a Lightning Source account.

The following are additional advantages to using IngramSpark:
  • Free account set-up
  • Streamlined set-up process that is easier to use (have your account activated, set up titles and submit files all in the same day where it can take 2 weeks through the LSI system)
  • More cost-effective pricing for title set-up ($49 with IngramSpark VS $75 with LSI)
  • The ability to simultaneously set up a print and e-book title (saves you even more $$ and set up time)
  • Expanded distribution network for e-books (includes Apple iBooks, Barnes & Noble Nook, Kobo, Amazon Kindle and many others)
  • The ability to view an electronic proof before ordering a physical copy
Want more information about pricing, costs and distribution? Please click on the icons below to learn more:
 

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I'm confused about Lightning Source and Ingram Spark. I understand that Lightning Source isn't really intended for small publishers - not much hand holding etc. and they are directing small publishers over to their Ingram Spark branch. So is LS not even an option anymore?

There's a difference between small publishers and self publishers: are you planning on publishing just your own books, or are you planning on publishing others' works too?
 
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There's a difference between small publishers and self publishers: are you planning on publishing just your own books, or are you planning on publishing others' works too?

Currently we are planning on concentrating on my husbands books first. However, we have already gotten interest from friends and family who we've shared the news with. So I suspect that in the future we might be publishing other works as well.
 

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Currently we are planning on concentrating on my husbands books first. However, we have already gotten interest from friends and family who we've shared the news with. So I suspect that in the future we might be publishing other works as well.

What experience do you have which qualifies you to set up a publishing company?

I ask because having worked in publishing for a while, I know how counterintuitive a business it is; and having seen many, many people set up shop as publishers without appropriate experience, I know how easy it is to fail--and when publishers fail they take their authors' books with them, which isn't good.
 
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Well like I said - we are concentrating on my husband's works first. I'm not "setting up shop" and soliciting authors. I only said there was a possibility of publishing other works in the future because I'm not going to rule it out.

Any small business just starting out lacks experience. There is a certain level of risk involved when someone decides to align themselves with said small business. Friends or family that may want our new publishing company to publish their works in the future would be aware of those risks.

I would not take on another authors work unless I believed I had enough experience to allow them to be at least as successful as they would be if they were to self-publish.

Anyway -- Regardless of whether or not we take on other authors work, I still would like to find out the difference (advantages/disadvantages) between Lightning Source and Ingram Spark so if you have any knowledge to share on that - it would be appreciated!
 

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The reason to go with LSI (if they'll let you) is that you get to set wholesale discounts (you're limited with spark). I don't think you can get an LSI account unless you have more than 4 books these days. ETA:Spark sends out a catalog of their titles, and they do that b/c they have a minimum wholesale discount you can set. LSI doesn't, and so you have to elect to be added to the catalog, IF you have the appropriate discount.

And a better idea than publishing your friends or family under your publishing imprint is to teach them how to do it themselves. I can totally tell that you mean well, but the boards here are full of horror stories of exactly that situation. There is no bonus to you doing it for them. If they want a publisher, teach them how to find one - i.e. point them to AW and tell them to spend a while asking questions.

There are pros and cons to both the trade and the self-publishing routes. Help the people make the informed choice.
 
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profen4

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Also, with spark they're set up to help you more. LSI is focused on small publishers who know what they're doing with title setup. If you mess up with LSI, you'll pay fees. If you can't understand why your interior is messed up, they'll tell you to fire your layout designer. They're not the hand-holding type.

Createspace's customer service for self-publishers is incredible. Once you know what you're doing with LSI their customer service is good. But I hear Spark is much more geared for the novice.
 

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Do you know if you start out with Ingram Spark can you move to an LSI account later?


I am with LSI and Createspace. I understand that if you want to move after the fact, they'll consider it if you have x# of titles. I'm afraid I don't know the number. It might be 4, it might be 4 a year. I can't remember. If you were already with LSI, as I was, you could stay or change. I opted to stay. Many people prefer Spark.
 

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I almost hate to go down this road since it's all hypothetical at this point, but why do you say there is no bonus to me doing it for them?


Here's the thing, self publishing is not easy to do right, and it's very, very, very easy to do wrong. The same goes for publishing in general.

It is the easiest thing in the world to find a publisher to take your book and publish it for you. Easy, easy, easy. Anyone can do it, and many people do. If you lower your bar far enough, you'll find a "publisher." Finding a good publisher is not so easy (well, actually, finding them is really easy, getting them to take your book is generally the challenge).

New presses sprout up every time a butterfly sneezes, and in particular author-started publishers are especially common. Many are well meaning. Some want to help other authors find a home for their work. Others want to add credibility to their writing by surrounding themselves with other authors as a way to make it appear like their work isn't self-published.

If all parties are informed, I say go for it. But if they're truly informed, it makes no sense not to publish under their own name/own publishing house, and just work together. As you pointed out, it's almost free with Spark. It is free with Createspace. Why not just work together to market titles without taking the rights away from someone?

An example of that kind of co-operative would be http://emblazoners.com/ - Started by Susan Kay Quinn (I hope I spelled her name right), the Emblazoners are a group of self-published MG writers who work together to market their work. Everyone keeps their rights. That has some value. (ETA: to clarify, I'm not part of this group, I'm just familiar with them as I've seen some of their co-operative efforts).

But a publisher that opens their doors without first having years of experience in the trade industry - working with established, successful presses, learning the ropes (acquisition/editing/production/marketing...etc etc), has zero to offer. They will only hurt the authors they "publish." I have yet to see any exception to that. And if you take a few weeks and scroll through the BR&BC thread here on AW, you'll read some truly heart-breaking stories of authors whose books have been destroyed by such endeavors.

I know it was all hypothetical to you, and likely a moot point. On the surface it looks like it could be a good idea. But without exception it isn't. Truly.
 
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I agree with most of what you're saying except for this:

If all parties are informed, I say go for it. But if they're truly informed, it makes no sense not to publish under their own name/own publishing house

You said it yourself... self publishing is not easy to do right. And some people would rather focus on other things than getting it right. For whatever reason, whether it's ego (still have the misguided stigma towards self publishing) or simply a lack of motivation to dive into the more technical/business aspect of publishing books, many people will simply never get their stuff out there without help. I don't see anything morally wrong with providing a service to those types of people. Can I wash my own car? Absolutely! Would I rather pay to have it done? You betcha!

Like I said though... it's all hypothetical at this point. Right now I'm just focused on "getting it right" for my husband's books!!! Thanks for taking the time to explain your viewpoint on the subject though! I'm learning so much here!
 

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Yes, learning to do all the aspects of self-pub, and to do them well, is a freaking lot of work. Heck, learning enough to be able to do them half-arsed is a fair bit of work.

Like gardening. Learning how to create a halfway decent garden from scratch is a fair bit of work. Learning how to create an award-winning garden that people will pay to tour is a flipping lot of work. A whole career, really.

So if I put the time and effort into it -- using gardening as the analogy -- should I design and dig and weed and plant and hoe my sister's garden, just because I'm good at it and she isn't yet, or doesn't want to have to bother getting all hot and sweaty with a rototiller? Should I do it if she pays me? What if I do let her hire me, and then she realises I'm not in the award-winning caliber (when that's what she was expecting, because she assumes, as many newbies would, that anyone charging for their time must be an award winning professional). She'll be pissed. What if I do let her hire me, and her garden wins the awards and beats mine out every time? I'll be jealous. What if her hugely expensive peonies gets taken over by blight? She'll blame me. What if her garden's halfway done and the garden award judges are due to come by next weekend, and I throw my back out and can't do the weeding? What if she finds she could've got the work done cheaper elsewhere and thinks I overcharged her? What if I find she should've paid me ten times what I actually charged her? What if her carrots give her food poisoning?

I honestly can't see how that scenario can go any way but wrong when you're dealing with family/friends. Unless, of course, I tell her "Here's my gardening books, which you're welcome to borrow, and here's the shop where you can buy a fork and a spade, and here's a leftover coupon I have for seedlings. Good luck, and have fun!" Which is pretty much what we're recommending you do :D
 

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I don't see anything morally wrong with providing a service to those types of people. Can I wash my own car? Absolutely! Would I rather pay to have it done? You betcha!

There's nothing morally wrong with it, and I think it's kind of you to want to help: but in my experience it's a very bad move, that's all.

I've seen countless instances where people have set up with very good intentions, and then it's all gone wrong. Horribly wrong. People at loggerheads, financial disputes, lawsuits, rights to the books all entangled and in many cases, gone for good.

What I can't remember is any ventures of this kind where everything worked out well.

Consider: would you rather remain close to your friends and family, or risk those relationships on a business venture? Bearing in mind your lack of expertise and experience of publishing (I don't mean to be offensive: please correct me if you have worked in publishing before), some things are bound to go wrong and you are not going to understand why or know how to make things right again. This is no judgement on you, it's just how things go: I've worked in publishing for thirty years now, and have seen it happen so many times.

Self publishing can be really great. When it goes well it's self-affirming, positive and exciting. But it's also very hard work and difficult to do well. If you then extend your ambitions to publishing other people you're going to find things even more difficult, and it's easy to get way out of your depth without realising.

Please think carefully before taking this path.
 
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Thanks for your insight and I'll take everything into consideration. As I've said - for now it's a non-issue. I'm focusing on learning all I can about publishing so I can get it right for my husbands books! I know I'll have many more questions! About to start a new thread with a new question right now!
 

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Gretchen, you're doing the right thing in learning all you can BEFORE you make a start. So many people plunge right in without bothering to do their research, and that's really sad to see.

Good luck!
 

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IngramSpark did a free webinar the other day, and while my questions weren't answered, one thing I learned is that you can use the same ISBN at both CreateSpace and Ingram Spark, but make sure to only opt for Amazon and CS distribution on CS.

As for publishing other authors, I do not want to do it because it's way too much bookkeeping. I have more than enough of that already. I would consider coaching someone through the self-publishing process under certain circumstances (namely, already having a real-life relationship with them and having at least some confidence in their work).
 
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