Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D

Man, those last two eps were really worth all the build-up. They rushed through the SHIELD takedown a little too much (a couple of lines after the action), but apart from that I enjoyed that a lot. One thing I wasn't sure about - is Fury still officially dead? I thought he'd stepped up again during the Winter Soldier finale, but the way they talked about the events in AoS, it seemed they're still assuming him dead.

As for the twist:

I knew something was up as soon as Ward asked to be the one to lock Garrett away. Couldn't place my hand on it, though. There's also that nod between Ward and Coulson when they walk off that got me wary.

The scene on the plane seemed out of character both for Ward and Hand. I can see Evil Ward shooting his way out of the plane to set Garrett free, but that second kill shot seemed a little too cold-blooded. (It makes sense if the purpose was to really sell Ward's dedication to Garrett, but otherwise it doesn't.) And the whole 'let's bury him deeper' speech from Hand just seemed unprofessional and less subtle than we've come to know her in that very episode.

All this, and the fact that Hand isn't some throwaway character they made up for the series, leads me to believe that it's all a big triple-cross undercover gig to flush out the rest of Garrett's operation.

I'd like me some Evil Ward because that sounds awesome, the triple-cross may sound too much like a cop-out and I want character deaths to count. But the more I think about it, the more I think that it's actually a very well-played triple-cross at the top of everybody's game, whereas the double-cross would rely heavily on everybody being quite bad at their jobs. Which is not how I want to remember the SHIELD top brass.

Brandon M Johnson said:

Wow. Did this show just get awesome?

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Pretty much my feelings in one line. This show went from being okay to SUDDENLY REALLY GOOD.

I'm really liking this current plotline, it's very difficult to predict the outcome with any confidence. I'm enjoying the are-they-aren't-they double-crossing drama a lot more than I did in Winter Soldier, and Hydra are much more menacing (and less cheesy) at this level.

Brandon M Johnson said:

One more thing: the opening was great. The dogfight felt like it was pushing the limits of a TV show budget and there's never a bad time for "Don't Fear The Reaper."

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Exactly. The opening put us on notice that from now on the series would have more cowbell!

Right now I'm supporting the triple cross theory, although I'd be pleased if Ward stays a villain. I hope they don't wrap this up in just a few episodes, though (the show has a track record of moving quickly). This could be leading toward a thrilling season finale.

I think the writers realized that while all of the characters still have room to grow, Ward's the weakest link. He even called himself boring in the episode, which was ironically a nice bit of character development in addition to being a red flag to for was to come.

One thing, though: I haven't been watching the show as closely as I would a series I really invested in, and I'm not coming from a Marvel background, so what's going on with Rising Tide? Was "Rising Tide" a cover for Hydra? I feel like the show would have been better served dealing with Hydra from the beginning but they couldn't get into it because of Captain America (which I also have not seen).

katiemac said:

Right now I'm supporting the triple cross theory, although I'd be pleased if Ward stays a villain. I hope they don't wrap this up in just a few episodes, though (the show has a track record of moving quickly). This could be leading toward a thrilling season finale.

I think the writers realized that while all of the characters still have room to grow, Ward's the weakest link. He even called himself boring in the episode, which was ironically a nice bit of character development in addition to being a red flag to for was to come.

One thing, though: I haven't been watching the show as closely as I would a series I really invested in, and I'm not coming from a Marvel background, so what's going on with Rising Tide? Was "Rising Tide" a cover for Hydra? I feel like the show would have been better served dealing with Hydra from the beginning but they couldn't get into it because of Captain America (which I also have not seen).

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If I recall correctly, the Rising Tide were just activists with a sort-of Wikileaks vibe that just wanted to bring what SHIELD was doing into the spotlight. Skye was a member along with her then-boyfriend, but Coulson and company broke everything up or something, though I don't recall how. I don't think they were HYRDA... but you never know these days.

And I agree that Ward is the weak link of the cast, which is why I'm hoping Evil Ward is here to stay. (You could argue that having Fitz and Simmons is redundant and therefore one of them is the weak link, but they've grown on me.)

That sounds right.

I think there was an episode where Skye worked with her Rising Tide friend and that lead them to Ian Quinn (who... is Hydra? Isn't Hydra?), but then maybe that friend sold them out? Which is maybe why I wasn't sure if there was a connection.

Any way. More Bill Paxton, please.

Max Vaehling said:

Man, those last two eps were really worth all the build-up. They rushed through the SHIELD takedown a little too much (a couple of lines after the action), but apart from that I enjoyed that a lot. One thing I wasn't sure about - is Fury still officially dead? I thought he'd stepped up again during the Winter Soldier finale, but the way they talked about the events in AoS, it seemed they're still assuming him dead.

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Fury is still dead to the world. He's still working, but he specifically told Steve that if anyone asks about him to point them to his grave. Fury being alive is a secret to the world as a whole, similar to Coulson being alive. The only people who know Coulson is alive are people over a certain level in SHIELD. Considering Natasha uploaded all of SHIELD's secrets it's possible that the truth of Coulson may be out (it was one of Fury's locked files).

All I know, is I'm glad that Fitz was not HYDRA. Seeing him cry was a great touch. While it's still possible another member may be HYDRA, I'd suspect Simmons first.

I can't wait for the appearances of Maria Hill and then Nick Fury.

EMaree said:

Pretty much my feelings in one line. This show went from being okay to SUDDENLY REALLY GOOD.

I'm really liking this current plotline, it's very difficult to predict the outcome with any confidence. I'm enjoying the are-they-aren't-they double-crossing drama a lot more than I did in Winter Soldier, and Hydra are much more menacing (and less cheesy) at this level.

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yea this episode saved the show lol I know so many people who lost interest and are now sucked back in (myself included)

katiemac said:

That sounds right.

I think there was an episode where Skye worked with her Rising Tide friend and that lead them to Ian Quinn (who... is Hydra? Isn't Hydra?), but then maybe that friend sold them out?

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Something like that. As for Quinn, he worked for the Clairvoyant, like Deathlok and Raina, but they're all part of Centipede which was one of the writers' ways of avoiding the "H-word". So they may or may not be aware that it's all really Hydra.(Well, Deathlok probably doesn't. It's not like he signed a contract or something. Quinn may.)

Max Vaehling said:

Something like that. As for Quinn, he worked for the Clairvoyant, like Deathlok and Raina, but they're all part of Centipede which was one of the writers' ways of avoiding the "H-word". So they may or may not be aware that it's all really Hydra.(Well, Deathlok probably doesn't. It's not like he signed a contract or something. Quinn may.)

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Yes, you're right--Centipede is a branch of Hyrda overseen by Garrett. I had to read a couple of episode recaps and even watched "TRACKS" again. I sort of forgot that Quinn wasn't just pushing money around but that he was told explicitly by the Clairvoyant to shoot Syke (and Ward would have told the Clairvoyant that she was coming, so... damn).

So Ward has the plane's hard drive with all of their mission files. He knows that both Coulson and Skye were revived by the GH drug but not that the drug was alien in nature or that Skye is an 0-8-4.

Unless they want to draw out a triple cross reveal for May sweeps, I think we'll see that Ward has already handed that hard drive over to Coulson or someone similar in the next episode or two.

Watching tonight's episode, I kept asking myself why they didn't just take Lola on the trek through the frozen wasteland. It's a FLYING CAR.

7miles of hiking vs. 7 miles IN A FLYING CAR.

I wonder if the writers just forgot they made her fly.

Cyia said:

Watching tonight's episode, I kept asking myself why they didn't just take Lola on the trek through the frozen wasteland. It's a FLYING CAR.

7miles of hiking vs. 7 miles IN A FLYING CAR.

I wonder if the writers just forgot they made her fly.

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That was my first thought as well.

But after this episode, I'm so happy with the way things are going. Ward actually seems to be with the "bad guys" and I'm loving that. I hope it stays that way and isn't some massive triple cross like I feared.

I suspect poor Lola wouldn't have navigated the trees very well. Without a landing spot she'd have to smash through the trees to get to the ground and that'd scratch the paint.

Not to mention she'd get shot up with the autoguns.

Loving the story arc here. It's really shaking everything down to the core.

Cyia said:

Watching tonight's episode, I kept asking myself why they didn't just take Lola on the trek through the frozen wasteland. It's a FLYING CAR.

7miles of hiking vs. 7 miles IN A FLYING CAR.

I wonder if the writers just forgot they made her fly.

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Having seen the way the helicopter looked, I'm not sure I wanted them trying to stretch their effects budget for the episode any more >.<

That being said, I really liked this episode too, feels like they're really giving Coulson some stuff to do now, and I'm allowing myself a glimmer of hope that they really have the guts to make Ward's betrayal stick. Far from convinced, but I live in optimism.

Am I the only one getting a HYDRA buzz off Simmons?

I think Ward's a red herring and Gemma's going to end up being the deep cover operative. There's just been something suspicious about her since the moment she and Tripplet were in that room with Hand and Hand gave her that speech about how HYDRA hides in plain sight to make people like them.

Even if Ward's not a red herring - it was Gemma he saved when he jumped out of that plane.

Simmons was the one who was so desperate to get Sky's bloodwork to the Hub. She's actually steered quite a few moments in hindsight, right up to her going toe-to-toe with Coulson over the Bus now being a democracy.

I think the show's setting her up as their sweeps sucker punch.

For that matter, I see Raina joining up with Coulson's group. She likes him, and she's smart.

Cyia said:

Am I the only one getting a HYDRA buzz off Simmons?

I think Ward's a red herring and Gemma's going to end up being the deep cover operative. There's just been something suspicious about her since the moment she and Tripplet were in that room with Hand and Hand gave her that speech about how HYDRA hides in plain sight to make people like them.

Even if Ward's not a red herring - it was Gemma he saved when he jumped out of that plane.

Simmons was the one who was so desperate to get Sky's bloodwork to the Hub. She's actually steered quite a few moments in hindsight, right up to her going toe-to-toe with Coulson over the Bus now being a democracy.

I think the show's setting her up as their sweeps sucker punch.

For that matter, I see Raina joining up with Coulson's group. She likes him, and she's smart.

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I totally agree. Simmons has been giving me bad vibes for a while. I never really trusted her character. Then there was her insistence to research GH325 even after Coulson said no. She's dead set on it, even when shit was hitting the fan, she was still determined. It doesn't seem like she cares what happens to Coulson or Skye as long as she knows what it can do. Then there was the bit at the hub when she told Triplett lying was getting easier for her. Then this past episode she decided to get all dark rather than reassuring in her talk with Fitz. And I don't know, she's just shifty. Love Fitz though.

Cyia said:

Am I the only one getting a HYDRA buzz off Simmons?

I think Ward's a red herring and Gemma's going to end up being the deep cover operative. There's just been something suspicious about her since the moment she and Tripplet were in that room with Hand and Hand gave her that speech about how HYDRA hides in plain sight to make people like them.

Even if Ward's not a red herring - it was Gemma he saved when he jumped out of that plane.

Simmons was the one who was so desperate to get Sky's bloodwork to the Hub. She's actually steered quite a few moments in hindsight, right up to her going toe-to-toe with Coulson over the Bus now being a democracy.

I think the show's setting her up as their sweeps sucker punch.

For that matter, I see Raina joining up with Coulson's group. She likes him, and she's smart.

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After shooting those two guys in the face on the elevator, I'm pretty convinced that Ward is not a good guy. I really hope he stays that way, because he's shown more charisma in this last episode than he has last season. Love the Ward\Garret dynamic.

As for Simmons, though... yeah, if there's another HYDRA agent embedded in Coulson's team, she's the most likely candidate. Garret doesn't seem to be hinting that she's an agent though, and realistically, if she were HYDRA, he probably should have mentioned it to Ward. Though, then again, maybe it's just common knowledge that Simmons is HYDRA and Garret doesn't feel the need to mention it, assuming that Ward will know that when he says, "Wipe out the team," he's just referring to Coulson, May, and Fitz. One thing's for sure: I love the level of paranoia this show now inspires in me.

I'm also not sure about Triplett. At this point, the only people I'm pretty sure aren't (consciously...) HYDRA are Coulson and Skye. I'm pretty sure Fitz is clean too, and I think May is good, but I'm less sure about her than the others.

And I'm loving Garret as the villain. When that guy hailed HYDRA and Garret compared him to a cheerleader I was like: . Plus, I loved his nonchalant delivery of "Hail Hyrda" from last episode, so if him basically mocking HYRDA becomes a running gag, I'm cool with that.

The other thing that makes me question Ward's loyalties (besides the remaining lack of a single 'Hail, Hydra') is Sky.

He knows she's the 0-8-4, and he knows that Garrett is after alien tech. Garrett would have brought her in, if he'd known about her.

I guess you could spin it that Ward was afraid Garrett would hurt or kill Sky in service of discovering what, exactly, she is, but when under threat of a kill order, anyway, it stands to reason that giving up that info could actually keep her alive. It's a fairly huge omission to make.

In good old Thriller tradition, the traitor is always the one nobody even thinks of suspecting. So if there's another one, my money's on Fitz. (Also, it's possible that Hydra's Clairvoyant group has no idea what the other group inflíltrating the Bus is up to. We're not talking about one of the more transparent secret societies here. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my end.)

Yeah, Ward's actions in this ep (i.e. shooting two SHIELD gurards in the face) don't look like he's just pretending, though I've seen characters take extreme actions to sell their undercover identity, and the AoS themselves acted pretty dodgily in TAHITI.

Anyway, for now I'm willing to buy into the notion he really is a bad guy. He may be redeemable, though. Whedon characters often are. Raina, too. I loved the look on her face when she found out she's been working for Hydra all the time. I don't think she likes that.

Great ep. They're keeping us on our toes and unsure about everybody. Oh, and Patton Oswalt. Can't go wrong with Patton Oswalt.

Max Vaehling said:

Oh, and Patton Oswalt. Can't go wrong with Patton Oswalt.

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No kidding. I hope they keep him around.

Oh hey there. You don't know me, and pretty much everyone is dead or a traitor, but I've got lanyards! And Fury's dead, but he's alive, but you can't tell anyone. Just let me open up the garage door and you can park your jet, 'K?

One of the best new faces I've seen on the show.

Cyia said:

The other thing that makes me question Ward's loyalties (besides the remaining lack of a single 'Hail, Hydra') is Sky.

He knows she's the 0-8-4, and he knows that Garrett is after alien tech. Garrett would have brought her in, if he'd known about her.

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But does he know? I thought only May, Coulson and Skye knew she was an 0-8-4, and only Skye and Coulson know the origins of the guest house drug is alien.

That said, I'm certain Ward is going to blow his Hydra cover by bringing Skye to Garrett. Not only did she encrypt the hard drive, she's received drug. Garrett would have wanted her either way eventually, and she's easier to bring in than Coulson.

As for Gemma, I'm not picking up a Hydra vibe more so than the vibe that they're sticking a wedge in general between her and Fitz. But I did think it was suspect that Hand questioned Gemma and Triplett together, and only Triplett actually did anything to clear himself of not being Hydra. Gemma was just there.

Anyway, loving seeing the "real" side of Ward. He's more dynamic in this one episode than he's been the entire show, and I feel bad for originally blaming some of blandness on Brett Dalton's acting--not the case. Hands down my new favorite.

katiemac said:

Anyway, loving seeing the "real" side of Ward. He's more dynamic in this one episode than he's been the entire show, and I feel bad for originally blaming some of blandness on Brett Dalton's acting--not the case. Hands down my new favorite.

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Dalton mentioned in an interview that he wasn't told that his character was a Hydra agent until the episode "Yes Men", so the vast majority of his blandness was unintentional.

"Play this blandly. We'll tell you why, later." Works for me.