The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Renee said:

Wow, that comment brought back a PA moment for me..lol..

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I think CJ was being ironical.

It's that dry Canadian wit.

Oh my. I was just browsing the new releases over at PA, and it seems this week's theme is water.

I see at least three covers I know are repeats from older covers, too. Maybe tonight at work if I have some down time I'll track them down.

James D. Macdonald said:

I think CJ was being ironical.

It's that dry Canadian wit.

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Oh....I'll take your word for it.

I just saw something funny on the PA website. (Did you know that one of the Google Ads from the www.PublishAmericaSucks.com page was for PA?)

When in doubt, always use the Author Support Team address.
They will forward your email to the appropriate department.

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When you consider how many times the "Author Support Team" replies to unhappy authors with the words "your email did not reach its intended recipient" you have to figure they're incompetent at that, too.

To those of you who welcomed me, thank you.

I will admit, I did not read every single one of the 18,240 replies. I don’t have that kind of time, and I don’t know of anyone who does. I did, however, select many pages randomly.

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors? Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you. Posts on our own message boards keep popping up with concerns on what is being said here and elsewhere. How do you think it makes ‘us’ feel? Regardless of the levels of our quality of writing, and there are many wonderful, topnotch, writers at PA, just as much blood, sweat, and tears went into our work as it did yours. Did you ever stop and think for one moment that just maybe, for some of us, your comments appear demeaning? Well, if that is the purpose of your unkind words, let it rest on your shoulders.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents, so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net. That kind of talk just fuels the fires, and it deters those who may consider revisiting some of our PA authors works, thus, not giving us a chance to make a name for ourselves in lieu of our publisher’s reputation.

Look, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I’m just trying to get you to understand what this kind of talk can do to our self esteem and our motivation. We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

If ‘you’ can’t change what is, then why keep beating it like a dead horse? We authors at PA are not idiots, and we can fight our own battles. Let it go, and spare us all this negativity.

Oh, and someone mentioned going into google to check out the names of authors mentioned here. Big deal, most authors, good and bad, and even my own, appears there, and on just about every bookstore site...

For those of you making a living in this game of publishing, I salute you--really.

PA is not on the ball

Arkie said:

Posted on the PA web page is their Book of the Month, "Hum of Hushed Voices." The book was published in June 2002. The Amazon price is $19.95, with Used and New from $4.33.

The book is not ranked on Barnes and Noble, and its Amazon ranking has dropped in the past hour from 1,009,107, to 1,011,466. I think that about says it all.

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What's really funny about this is, this author is not Pro PA. I thought she wasn't a PA supporter so I Googled her name and PA. Here's one of the links I found http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.topic&start=721&stop=740 Her user name was darbyj. Say Lisa you still around?

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

...We authors at PA ... can fight our own battles....

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Until being banned by PA and then coming here to continue the fight. At least that seems to be much of what is going on.

--Ken

OMG, I got a perfect trifecta of ads while visiting http://www.publishamericasucks.com/ . The ads included, Vantage, Trafford, and PublishAmerica with a wild card of ST Literary Agency posting an employment ad.

Gosh, does that mean ol' Fletch is expecting to handle a lot more clients because of his name change? Hey, we need to come up with an appropriate handle for ol' Fletch just like Larry, Curlem, Moe-randa, and Shemp. It's not fair to leave him out.

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

To those of you who welcomed me, thank you.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents, so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net. That kind of talk just fuels the fires, and it deters those who may consider revisiting some of our PA authors works, thus, not giving us a chance to make a name for ourselves in lieu of our publisher’s reputation.

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First

PA print my book, it was not published. I never agreed to what they print. It was in my contract that I was to okay what they print and I wasn't given the chance to. This happened to several others, this just one complain about PA. So nobody here wants to hurt any PA author. Many of us here are PA authors. We just want PA to do as they promised.

And if an agent asks for money, RUN away from them. A good agent, as many of the authors who have good ones will tell you, make their money from selling your work to a publisher. You don't pay them. The one thing I've learned from this thread is the money flows to the author. It's our job to write the book. It's the publisher's job to sell the book.

Dear Lady,

We don't imagine for a moment that we can make things better for you. The main focus of many of us is to let people know what PA is so that they will not fall in with a "publisher" who cannot and will not do right by them...in fact, with a "publisher" that makes lying an SOP. Yes, this is uncomfortable for those who chose PA and are stuck there -- but for everyone who falls into the pit, we snatch dozens from the edge. Someday you will be snatching others from the edge too -- you are clearly an intelligent, caring person so I have no doubt that eventually, you will help others see BEFORE they are caught. I personally have spoken to people considering signing the contract and told them hard truths that made them turn away and turn back to the tough road that leads to real publication and real readers.

As for what it does to your book. It actually doesn't do much more to your book than PA has already done. Long long before the "word" was out, the average PA author STILL sold a scant handful of books and only to those the author had face to face contact with. You still have this option. No one here has taken that from you.

PA doesn't want you to suceed. Quite frankly, they aren't set up to deal with it. When the rare large order comes in -- there are many many reports of the books shipped being faulty...horribly faulty. Wrong covers. Missing pages. Faded printing. The author copies you got are not the "last word" in what people who order may receive. We have seen documented evidence of that. How could anything we do be worse than the shame of knowing the product you show people is not necessarily the product they will receive?

I know it's painful but quite frankly, there is nothing we, whom you consider enemies, are capable of doing that is worse than what they, your publisher, will do to you with total indifference.

gran

You Missed My Point

Renee said:

Wow, that comment brought back a PA moment for me..lol..

No one held a gun to my head when I signed my contract, no doubt. I never said they did, I don't think anyone else has either. I obviously didn't know anything about publishing at the time. So now, let me ask : what's your excuse?

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You misconstrued my point for saying that.

The point was this: if you're going to make fun of PA authors for their acts of desperation to get their books noticed based on the "they must take responsibility for their actions" line, then you must adopt that line for their entire involvement in their PA relationship.

Personally, I've been advocating that there's a certain amount of ... shall we say ... temporary insanity that goes with the desperation that PA must be what they literally claim to be.

Canada James

Passionate New York Lady --

Now that was a sincere comment. Excellent! And as you find the time do surf through this thread more. You'll find that many of us EX Paer's do have legitimate problems because/with PA. Things that they did wrong to us.

At one time I looked at this situation just like you do now. From what I can tell, that is. I read this board for three years, lurking, I was talked about. After I was talked about it was very hard for me to even consider signing up to post. I have to admit I was crushed. But, that doesn't matter now. It really didn't then either -- these are message boards not our whole life. I still continued to read through the comments because I could tell people like Uncle Jim, who I call James, had our true concerns down and in their own way were trying to help. I can see that most, if not all the people I've spoken with here, do have legitimate concerns about PA and what they are doing to innocent, and in most cases very talented people. Yes, there are lots of talented folks at PA. That doen't make PA good. I've read alot of PA books, enjoyed all of them that I read. We all deserve the chance to find a REAL publisher, period.

Just know that no one likes what PA is doing to everyone. Everyone has a story here an rest assured we all get to make our opinion and the truth known. There is at times, a lot of cutting-up on this board as well..that triggers the talking about people scenario. And sometimes that in my opinion, gets in the way of what most of us are fighting for here. Our rights back! Not everyone is always right here, just as they aren't anywhere, but even the non-Paer's have many concerns about a company that swindles their own authors (and many other things that I won't go through again).

You sound like a reasonable person, so I am confident that you will see the truth, about all this, very soon. I wish you the best, always.

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors? Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents, so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net. That kind of talk just fuels the fires, and it deters those who may consider revisiting some of our PA authors works, thus, not giving us a chance to make a name for ourselves in lieu of our publisher’s reputation.

We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

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Some of us are paying forward to repay those who helped us when we began writing. That's why we're so concerned. Others have been defrauded or otherwise victimized by PublishAmerica. That's why they're concerned.

Most writers do not have money to invest in publicists so we're standing on equal ground there. As to agents, you shouldn't be paying an agent up front to represent your work. Besides, if your work is already published, why on Earth would you need an agent? You might need a film agent, but you're not going to find them too interested unless your book is doing well.

Speaking of which, PA's behavior, policies, and activities are what created the negative attitude toward PA. We didn't just pick publisher names out of a hat and, voila, PA got selected. No, the truth is that PA earned the scorn it receives. If you want to overcome the negative attitude, I suggest you re-evaluate the facts and get away from PA as quickly as possible because, like it or not, we're in this fight to protect your rights.

By the way, I'm probably with some of the smallest publishers around. Even so, my book sales, most of which are ebooks, probably exceed 95% or more of the PA books sold including those that are self-purchased by PA authors trying to prime the pump, so to speak.

I said I wasn't going to get involved, but I think I can offer a nice, simple, explanation.

Many of the messages that are copy and pasted here are for educational purposes. Most of them are the same tripe that PA has forced down its authors gullets since its inception. Your publisher (and I use the term loosely) is a fountain of misinformation.

Since we can't post the truth on the PA boards, those messages are copied here so that others know what is being referenced.

Me? No publicist, no agent, just publishing a book with a small, honest publishing house. I guarantee you that I will sell more books in a six month royalty period than most PA books will sell over the course of their lifetime, b/c my publisher is working to get books in stores, they are working to get me signings. What money does come out of my pocket will be limited to a few copies I may purchase to have on hand (in case someone asks) and gas money.

My publisher is going to put out about a dozen books this year. PA puts out over 100 a week. Do you think my small publisher only recieves a few subs? Nope. I think the wait time there for a decision has gone from eight weeks when I subbed, to more than four months. They actually read each and every sub that comes in. They reject stuff too, and not just b/c they've met their quota that day.

PA responds to most subs in a day or less. What does that say for the quality of books they put out? Don't you, as an author, deserve better? If your writing is of quality, it should be showcased by a real publisher. If not, well, then you deseve to be told that it needs work and given the opportunity to improve your craft. It is a disservice to you as a writer to tell you that your book is good enough if it isn't. (and I mean "you" in the global sense, not a personal one.)

And that's why the fight goes on, NY lady. No one here, that I know of, is trying to make you feel bad or lower your self esteem.

PA lies to you. They tell you you're good enough. You may be, and you may not. The fact, they don't really know. They are spoon feeding you what you (an every person who wants to write and be read) want to hear.

All that crap of "bookstores needing to add 15 feet of shelf space a day" to get in every book published? Ask Uncle Jim, he'll explain why that's a lie. 90% of books don't ever get shelved. That's a lie. Much published material was never meant to be shelved in the first place. POD is the "wave of the future"- a lie.

PA also treats it's unhappy writers like unruly children. They actually tell authors not to "take that tone with them." It's shameful.

As I said before, you all deserve much better.

(I tried to post this before Dave, but my AOHell booted me)

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors?

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Because PA constantly treats you badly, lies to you about the publishing industry and your own level of talent and knowledge, and then tells you it's all your fault. PA sets you up to fail, and then calls you whiners and losers when you object. I don't like seeing good people who've put honest effort into something near and dear to them being treated that way.

Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you.

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Please, give an example of this bashing. I know you've heard on the PA boards that that's what's going on here, but when you look past what you've been told to expect, do you really see it happening? Don't confuse correcting errors with bashing; don't confuse criticizing PA with criticizing the authors.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents, so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net.

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This is the kind of misinformation we're trying to combat. This is what you're told on the PA boards--that you have to invest money in agents and publicists. The people on this board have said, over and over and over, that that is a scam. You do not pay legitimate agents up front. You do not need to hire publicists if your publisher is doing its job.

The problems with having a PA book are not generated by chatrooms like this, but by PA's author-hostile contracts and policies. The reasons it's hard to get your book in bookstores isn't because we're sitting here pointing out the problems with PA, it's because PA is POD, offers no returns, offers short discounts, and produces the physical books poorly; it has no marketing staff, no experienced production staff, no experienced editors, nothing. And it lies to you and tells you these things aren't problems.

That's what infuriates me. PA lies to you. It sets you up to fail, it lets you move heaven and earth trying to figure out how to succeed, and it tells you, when you fail because of its own stinking setup, that it was your fault, that you weren't good enough, that you didn't try hard enough.

We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

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Friend, you can't overcome PA's bad reputation. Only PA can do that. And they're not going to, because they won't bother. They don't care about you authors having to deal with their negative rep.

If ‘you’ can’t change what is, then why keep beating it like a dead horse? We authors at PA are not idiots, and we can fight our own battles. Let it go, and spare us all this negativity.

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We have changed the way PA does business. Read back through this thread, and see how. PA used to be even worse, in terms of contracts and deceptive advertsing, than it is now. Places like this changed that. In addition to that, places like this have exposed PA's less-attractive aspects to people who hadn't signed with them yet, and never did because they were warned in time.

Oh, and someone mentioned going into google to check out the names of authors mentioned here. Big deal, most authors, good and bad, and even my own, appears there, and on just about every bookstore site...

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And so do their publishers. You were the one who asked.

N.Y. lady, Hello, and hell no.


Anyway, I have an Uncle who lives in the big apple. I had a chat with him and he said
"Neph, I've got a friend who you may just want to contact. Tell him I sent you."

I said, "cool,okay I will." I did, and he wants to see my info.

My problen is I don't have an original P.U. contract in the Pdf,or any form.
Anybody have one on the electronic h-way. Send it to me.

My uncle's friend here: http://www.kaufmanpublaw.com/

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors?

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Because PA is scamming you. And they're trying to entice those who don't know better into their scam. The more information about PAs shortcomings, the fewer people who are ripped off.

Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you.

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We have tried to make it clear that PA authors are not what we're complaining about. Nearly all are just people who believed PAs lies. And their lies were so plausible that it's no reflection on anyone that they were caught. We always take pains to indicate that we have no argument with PA authors, and are saying nothing derogatory about their writing ability or intelligence. Publishing with PA is, at most, an indication that you didn't have enough information about publishing.

Regardless of the levels of our quality of writing, and there are many wonderful, topnotch, writers at PA, just as much blood, sweat, and tears went into our work as it did yours.

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There certainly are, and they certainly put that effort into their work. That is why we are so pissed off at PA: they are stealing the dreams of deserving writers.

Did you ever stop and think for one moment that just maybe, for some of us, your comments appear demeaning?

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Again, we always take pains to make it clear we are against PA, not it's writer.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents

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First of all, if you are investing money in an agent, you need another agent; yours is ripping you off. And the best publicist for any author his her publisher, who, unless they're a vanity press, put a lot of effort in getting her books in front of the general public.

That kind of talk just fuels the fires, and it deters those who may consider revisiting some of our PA authors works, thus, not giving us a chance to make a name for ourselves in lieu of our publisher’s reputation.

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It isn't just this board the points out the problems with PA. Bookstores, agents, and publishers know about PA. But PA has set you up so that your book will fail. They don't even care, since many of their practices makes it next to impossible for the book to sell well.

The good news is that publishing with PA won't affect your chances of selling a new book, only that no one will consider it a publishing credit. But authors without publishing credits get book contracts all the time.

Look, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I’m just trying to get you to understand what this kind of talk can do to our self esteem and our motivation. We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

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But the negative attitude toward PA comes from their own practices. If the board died today, there'd still be plenty of warnings about them.

If ‘you’ can’t change what is, then why keep beating it like a dead horse? We authors at PA are not idiots, and we can fight our own battles. Let it go, and spare us all this negativity.

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The discussion is not really for PA authors. It's for those who haven't yet signed a contract with PA.

Most PA authors go through a phase in the beginning when they are delighted with being published and believe PA can do no wrong. After a time, however, they begin to realize they have gotten next to nothing for all their efforts. They vanish from PA, and sometimes show up here. Even PA's biggest boosters eventually seem to come to the realization that they are not getting what they thought they would get.

I wish you success in your writing. It may even be possible to make it with PA as a publisher, even with the cards stacked against you. But most of those published by PA end up being bitterly disappointed, since it is so difficult to succeed with the roadblocks they put in front of you. We want people to realize that PA is a vanity press in sheep's clothing and stay away from them in the first place.

Fair enough....

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors?

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I can't speak for my colleagues, but when I started writing I had some well-published authors encourage and help me. When I asked how I could repay them, they responded by saying that I should try and help new writers any way I could. It matters to me that new writers get treated in a fair and ethical way. PublishAmerica, by consensus, is the most deceptive POD publisher in the world, and they treat their authors horribly. I figure anything I can do to help new authors avoid their clutches is payback to those fine authors who helped me in the beginning. Simply put, we don't like seeing fellow writers misled and having their work devalued, which is exactly what PA does to them.

Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you. Posts on our own message boards keep popping up with concerns on what is being said here and elsewhere. How do you think it makes ‘us’ feel?

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Probably terrible, and for that we're sorry. Your next question should be, "Why is everyone so concerned with what we are posting here?" Is it that we can substantiate what we say and are speaking the truth? The facts would seem to indicate so. Thus far, AW's record for veracity vs. PA's is like comparing champagne to radiator fluid, and that's me being extremely kind about it.

Did you ever stop and think for one moment that just maybe, for some of us, your comments appear demeaning?

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Whatever is said here, and I see little that's ever directed at PA authors, pales in comparison with what PA does to its authors each and every day.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents, so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net.

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That's one of our biggest complaints regarding your publisher, the way their system is set up an author can't be successful. Ask Nancy Mehl, who sold lots of her PA books, what happens when you write a successful PA title. Or talk with Diana Hignutt. Both of these fine women worked their butts off, and yet neither are any longer affiliated with PA. You should ask yourself - why?

Look, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I’m just trying to get you to understand what this kind of talk can do to our self esteem and our motivation. We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

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Actually, you have comported yourself here admirably, your posts are very well written and I think everyone here is empathetic to your situation. Trust me - PA is going to take you down a road that will increasingly fill with potholes and hazards.

If ‘you’ can’t change what is, then why keep beating it like a dead horse? We authors at PA are not idiots, and we can fight our own battles. Let it go, and spare us all this negativity.

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Mam, some of the changes recently made on the PA website where they're now a bit more honest about what they will and won't do came about because of sites like ours. Think about it, do you see any other publisher challenged or questioned as much as PA? There's plenty of reasons why...

Oh, and someone mentioned going into google to check out the names of authors mentioned here. Big deal, most authors, good and bad, and even my own, appears there, and on just about every bookstore site...

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It's where they appear on Google that should matter. For most of us, if we put our names into Google our sites will come up in the top 1-3 listings, which indicates that people are visiting them. Just for kicks, type in the name of Mr. Marcus, one of the most vocal PA advocates. He might be on page 2 or 3, and he's considered a very "well-known" PA author. That's incredibly poor name recognition.

For those of you making a living in this game of publishing, I salute you--really.

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We salute you as well. You're obviously bright and care about your writing. If you would like to visit with us again, please do. There are a ton of good writer resources available on this site, and you can voice your opinion on this thread without fear. Remember one thing - you respect us, and we'll respect you.

Good luck!

Passionate N.Y. Lady said:

To those of you who welcomed me, thank you.

I will admit, I did not read every single one of the 18,240 replies. I don’t have that kind of time, and I don’t know of anyone who does. I did, however, select many pages randomly.

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I understand. That's why I'm going to give a brief review of some points that have been brought up many times before. I'm sure they'll be brought up many times again.

I just don't understand why some of you, who haven’t a connection to PA, are ‘so’ concerned with what transpires between PA and their authors?

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I can only speak for myself here, but ... I'm not too concerned with what transpires between the folks who've already signed with PA and PA. There's little if anything I can do for them, other than to offer my sympathy. The ones I'm concerned with are the new authors who may be considering PA, but who haven't yet signed the contract. There's still hope for those folks.

And why am I concerned? I was a new author once. I know a lot of aspiring authors. I know how eager, and how vulnerable, they are.I dislike seeing first-timers getting scammed. Some of them have probably written pretty decent books. Putting them into PublishAmerica's Moloch means that they won't find the audience that they deserve. That author's career may be slowed, perhaps even derailed.

Those of us, who are there, don't appreciate being, indirectly, the subjects of all the bashing being posted by many of you. Posts on our own message boards keep popping up with concerns on what is being said here and elsewhere. How do you think it makes ‘us’ feel?

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I'm sorry if you feel bad, but you signed the contract, not me.

Regardless of the levels of our quality of writing, and there are many wonderful, topnotch, writers at PA, just as much blood, sweat, and tears went into our work as it did yours. Did you ever stop and think for one moment that just maybe, for some of us, your comments appear demeaning? Well, if that is the purpose of your unkind words, let it rest on your shoulders.

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The fact that there are many wonderful writers at PA is what makes me angry. Don't you think that the wonderful writers should have been allowed to find an audience?

Here's why they won't:

• High cover prices
• Short discounts
• No-return policy
• Poor production values

Those things are what will keep their works out of bookstores. Why do they want their books in bookstores? Because that's the single best place to sell books.

None of those four items were caused by the "bashers."

Here's something else that will kill their sales: PA accepts pretty-much anything that's sent to them. A good number of those things verge on unreadable. The editing is poor at best. A random stranger who does "take a chance" on a PA book and gets one of the unreadable items won't risk another twenty dollars on another PA book, even if it's wonderful, even if it's yours.

The policy of accepting everything wasn't caused by the "bashers" either.

You honestly are judged by the company you keep, and you're judged by the most important people in publishing: The readers.

Many of us don't have the money to invest in publicists or agents,

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Whoa! STOP RIGHT THERE!

If you're spending money on an agent, if you're thinking of spending money on an agent, put your hand over your wallet and get out of there. Real, legitimate agents don't charge you money. Anyone else is a scammer. It's that simple.

Publicists, especially for a first-timer, are a waste of time and money. I've never hired one. I can think of very few authors who have.

so, we, unlike some of you, break our backs trying to overcome all the naysaying generated by the PA posts in chatrooms, such as yours, all over the net. That kind of talk just fuels the fires, and it deters those who may consider revisiting some of our PA authors works, thus, not giving us a chance to make a name for ourselves in lieu of our publisher’s reputation.

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What do you think started the negative chat? Do you think that some folks got together one day and said "Which totally innocent publisher will we attempt to destroy, just for the pure joy of destruction?"

Here's a fact: If your book is good, you can get it published by a legitmate publisher. It will cost you nothing. On the contrary it will bring in money starting somewhere in the low thousands and going up from there, beginning the moment you sign the contract. If it isn't, no self-publishing or vanity publishing scheme on earth will help.

And I am actively, seriously, working every day to deter as many writers as I can from submitting their works to PA. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but you should be aware that my actions aren't hurting your sales.

Look, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I’m just trying to get you to understand what this kind of talk can do to our self esteem and our motivation. We are trying very hard to overcome the negative attitude toward PA and, I must say, this kind of talk is not helping.

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Your self-esteem isn't my concern. Not trying to insult you, or sound cold, but that's the fact. No matter how motivated you are, and we've seen some really motivated people pass through PA's ranks, you won't be able to sell more than a tiny number of books. That isn't caused by the bashers. That's caused 100% by PA's business model.

If ‘you’ can’t change what is, then why keep beating it like a dead horse? We authors at PA are not idiots, and we can fight our own battles. Let it go, and spare us all this negativity.

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There's one thing I can change. If I can stop just one person from signing away their book to PublishAmerica, I feel I've accomplished a positive good.

Oh, and someone mentioned going into google to check out the names of authors mentioned here. Big deal, most authors, good and bad, and even my own, appears there, and on just about every bookstore site...

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Who I am is unimportant. If I'm top of the NYT Best Seller list and I'm fibbing, folks should ignore me. If I'm Joe Unpublished and I'm telling the truth, folks should pay attention. You learn who's fibbing and who's telling the truth by comparing your own experiences and observations to what folks say.

For those of you making a living in this game of publishing, I salute you--really.

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Thanks. And I salute everyone who's ever written a book, published or not. It's a hard job, with few pleasures and fewer rewards.

All true Dee.

There is no way to get your books viewed by the reading public, unless, you buy them yourself. Ah, funneled right into the web. That's the idea, to get the author to buy their own books-vanity in reverse.

LADY, I hope you didn't get all excited when your book was about to be released by all the happy happy got my dollar and go get 'um sell a million P.A. supporters.

Cause I'll tell you what happened if you did.

You got your/babies/author copies, and were so happy as a first timer that you took advantage of the 50% discount sent with the books-(why would P.U. do that? Send an order suggestion with the author copies, and give you a couple weeks to take advantage of it?), oh well, anyway, so as I was saying, you got excited and bought a bunch of your own books.
Hey, don't get mad, I bought 150 copies, I'm their best customer for my book, and they treat me like a rented mule. After I bought my books they acted like I had the super cooties or something.

If you haven't boughten any of your books, don't. They say that they don't twist your arm to buy books, and no one ever has to buy their own books, so, hold them to that.
Good luck to you.

Welcome Lady.

I can't say I blame you for not wanting to wade through every post on this thread but I think some of our regulars have recapped its intent nicely.

Although the occasional barb is aimed towards a PA author or two, most of the artillery is saved for the company itself and their head honchos. I understand your frustration with what appears to be "bashing." We prefer to call it truth-telling; from the perspective of conventionally-published writers as well as those who've been-there done-that with PA and are in the process of moving on with their careers.

I admire your moxie for entering the "enemy's" lair and I hope you'll stay.

CJ, I still don't buy it...

Canada James said:

The point was this: if you're going to make fun of PA authors for their acts of desperation to get their books noticed based on the "they must take responsibility for their actions" line, then you must adopt that line for their entire involvement in their PA relationship.

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I can well understand someone signing a contract with PA. The people that run PA are professional scam artists, they know what buttons to press, and some incredibly bright, talented people have signed with them. Of that I have no issue, I would never blame a single soul who's ever signed with them. As I get further into it is where I have a problem. If PA says, "Go out and do some wild things to get yourself noticed!" I might think, okay, that's cool, so I'll put a crazy pic of myself on my website eating a hamdog or I'll give my book a wild title or whatever. Fine. But it comes down to degree - do I go out, get naked, and dance in front of a police station with a book taped to each cheek of my heiny? Or do I paint my body brown, get on all fours, and impersonate a moose in the middle of a downtown intersection with a basket of books balanced on my head? When people do things that insane, and posing in lingerie on a writer's message board or faking your death twice seems pretty insane to me, then the people involved in such stunts should expect some degree of public reaction when they undertake them.

Personally, I've been advocating that there's a certain amount of ... shall we say ... temporary insanity that goes with the desperation that PA must be what they literally claim to be.

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CJ, I couldn't have said it better. You really should consider taking up writing, you have a flair for it, you know.

Passionate NY Lady, here's something you can try to prove to yourself that we're telling the truth. Simply email PA and tell them that you want a different cover on your book. Tell them that the editing is poor. Tell them that you've learned other publishers give their writers 10 copies (actually, some give even more than that). Tell them that you want them to arrange a signing in your town and provide the books for the signing.

Or you can look around in this topic for some of the requests that other PA writers have already made. Use that as your guide on what to ask for.

Chances are that you'll get an answer from PA that states no. Lately, they've actually become slightly civil in their replies, but that's because we've embarrassed them in front of the BBB (who now points out that they're a problem), the Maryland state Attorney General, and several other outfits. However, before now you would have received one of the infamous tone letters. There are copies of those posted in this thread.

In the meantime, don't order any copies of your book. That's what PA wants. Once they have your money, they'll ignore you. In some cases, they don't even bother filling out the order. Why haven't they been taken to court? Because most of their writers are too poor to afford a lawyer and travel to Maryland and wait for an arbitration or court date. Also, PA figures you won't spend a few thousand on legal costs to recover a few hundred spent purchasing books. That's what PA is really banking upon. They know that most of their authors will decide to cut their losses and just fade away while they go about their day victimizing more writers who just won't believe it can happen to them!

What Dee just said.......

Ditto to what Dee just said........

Jenna, I am going to be diplomatic. It ain't my strong suit but I'm trying. Please let me get by this time with a few zingers.

Dave, Uncle Jim and to all that did not get duped by PA but want to help those of us who did and prevent it from happening to others..........thank you.

Please don't stop trying to prevent internet CRIMES and clean up your business. Fraud is a crime. Selling books without a contract is a crime. All citizens should fight crime. Right? People are spending their savings and over loading their credit cards. Inducement to sign a contract by telling lies is a crime.

I suffered mentally and physically but I am 67 and my financial situation is a lot better than it was when I was younger. It has been a year and I'm cooled down....should have heard me when I was really angry and not under a gag order.

When things I read on the PA board upset me, guess what I did.....stopped going there.

Whatever they say doesn't bother me a bit. Even when I'm told to get a life, called an ugly name or stupid etc. We are respectfully requested not to do that here. Many times like now I want to cuss like hell but Jenna has warned me.

I know nothing about the publishing business but thank God I got wise real fast and didn't remain totally dumb forever.

BTW, I am a very successful author. I moved up on the best seller list again last week. Does it matter that I've not been paid and haven't had a contract in a year?


Molly