Mama Jude's Pep Talk

lizmonster said:

What's been making me crazy is how fuzzy it all is. I've been reading from the beginning, and I can see places where my plot changes might be integrated; but how do I know I need them there? What if I miss some things, and I don't realize it until I'm at the end? Then I'll have to backtrack and do it all over again.

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I can so relate, Liz.

Good luck with working backwards. I don't think it sounds crazy at all.

I feel like such a failure lately. Both in and out writing. However, in relation in writing, it's just indescribable. I can't finish anything. I haven't finished anything since I wrote a 25K story a few months. I've been barely been able to write since. Anything I did like, or rather, anything I did write, I ended up deleting it because I ended up hating it. I just don't know what to do with myself. I don't know what I want at all. I just feel like a failure, a complete and total failure. Everything I write feels the same, all of the characters feel the same, and it's just....ugh.

And of the writers around me, (People who are friends I know in real life who also write), make it look so easy. And I know it isn't easy. But they just have these pages and pages long stories where as I have nothing. Nothing.

I want writing to be fun again. I want to write because I want to see how the story ends, what happens to characters, and etc. I just don't feel like I'm good at it anymore. I really don't know how to bring myself back to enjoying writing.

heyjude said:

Oh, Silver. What a tough place to be in--and one I can well relate to. I think we all go through this at some point. How long has it been since you started feeling this way? Have you tried taking a break? Writing something completely different?

Hugs, hugs, hugs. It's an awful feeling.

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Well, I've been a writing break for quite some time. Maybe I shouldn't just write right now. (I'm kind of already busy with the college courses that I'm taking). Maybe this is just my brain's way of saying "Okay, you're trying to do too much, and I can't handle all of this.". I don't know. But I've been writing off and on since Nano Camp, and I haven't been able to get back into the groove of it since I did Nano Camp. That's the only reason why I'm worried about getting back into the groove of it.

Silver-Midnight said:

I haven't been able to get back into the groove of it since I did Nano Camp. That's the only reason why I'm worried about getting back into the groove of it.

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You know, I don't think you can always set a time limit for these things. You may really need more of a break. As you've pointed out - you have a LOT going on in your life right now. If the writing is adding to the stress, it's the wrong time.

I wonder, though - when was the last time you wrote just for yourself? Not for word count, or to progress toward something finished - just to express something you wanted to express? For me, especially if I'm working on something I'm trying to turn into Something[tm], I can lose all sense of joy and artistry. Sometimes you need a break - and sometimes you just need to put some words on paper with no goals and no conditions.

Be kind to yourself. When it's time for you to write again, you will.

lizmonster said:

I wonder, though - when was the last time you wrote just for yourself? Not for word count, or to progress toward something finished - just to express something you wanted to express? For me, especially if I'm working on something I'm trying to turn into Something[tm], I can lose all sense of joy and artistry. Sometimes you need a break - and sometimes you just need to put some words on paper with no goals and no conditions.

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Truthfully, it's a been a while since I've written for myself, solely for myself. Just to write something I would enjoy. I've gotten too caught up in the Will-I-Try-To-Publish-It-Or-Won't-I thing as well as wondering how/if I've following "genre guidelines". But most of it has been "What am I going to do with this story?", not "Is this for me or something else?".

I think that might be my problem as well. I have a difficult time either learning to balance or tip the scales in favor of writing stories that I enjoy first then attempt to publish. And I really want and need to get out of that habit. Any advice?

You may have picked up from approximately one third of my posts that I'm a songwriter first, and this word-writing business is something I've come to only very recently (although I did write a lot as a kid). I went through an absolutely horrible period of writer's block about six or seven years ago, and I felt much the same as you did.

Nothing I wrote was ever good enough. It wasn't that I couldn't come up with stuff - I just hated all of it. It was all clichéd crap, rehashes of things I'd written better before. My band was starting to crumble, and I felt like just writing a better song might solve the problem. My girlfriend at the time (now wife!) was living in a different city too.

This went on for over two and a half years, even after leaving that city, ending that band, and moving to live with my girlfriend. I have recordings of rough drafts from those years ("doodle tapes", I call 'em) and listening back I was right - it was crap. I hated what I was writing.

As a creative person, to feel like I couldn't create, and that what I was creating was pointless and worthless, was horrible. It's such a huge part of who I am, and that part felt like it was shrivelling up and dying.

The thing that changed it was doing something different. I started to play around with ideas in a completely different genre. From heavy rock I started writing acoustic and electronic pieces - gentle things sung quiet as a lullaby. I spent six months feverishly working on these things, going late into the early hours of the morning getting them down (and paying the price in work the next day), and then they were done. I'm not a good finisher - I have tons of half-recorded songs around. But I finished these, and while the recordings are terrible, I'm proud of those songs.

After that, I found I could write rock songs again. It was gradual, not sudden. Little things, the trappings of the genre that I'd tried so hard to avoid during The Great Block, didn't bother me so much - in fact, they made me smile. They were what I loved about rock music in the first place. They were why I was doing it. Soon I'd written a couple of songs I consider among my best. But I didn't stop - I kept doing the quiet songs, and started playing around with other things. I joined a collective of musicians who worked together and promoted alternative music in the city where I work. I spent four weeks writing an eight-minute orchestral-meets-drum-and-bass thing while my wife was working out in India. Then I started exploring heavier rock, and moving into metal. I wrote a terribly cheesy dance pop tune.

All if it was a process of making sure my brain was alive all the time.

Coming into writing stories was part of that for me. It was something that I'd wanted to do for myself, and I found that when I started, it changed me for the better. I've never been so happy as a songwriter than since I started writing this novel. I am still terrible at finishing - I have about two hours of unfinished music cluttering up my hard drive, and the desire to go back and re-do some of my older stuff is very strong. But I love what I'm doing, and my work is better for that.

My advice would be to take a step into something just for you. Write a story that is different to your normal style. Play around with different things. Maybe take up another creative hobby - music, drama, dancing, baking, knitting, whatever you like. Do something imaginative every day, even if it's as small as doodling on the corner of a telephone pad. Forget whether something falls into genre conventions, whether it might be publishable or even readable. Make something you love.

And then come and tell us all about it, 'cos we're nosey parkers. Plus there's chocolate and hugs.

onesecondglance said:

My advice would be to take a step into something just for you. Write a story that is different to your normal style. Play around with different things. Maybe take up another creative hobby - music, drama, dancing, baking, knitting, whatever you like. Do something imaginative every day, even if it's as small as doodling on the corner of a telephone pad. Forget whether something falls into genre conventions, whether it might be publishable or even readable. Make something you love.

And then come and tell us all about it, 'cos we're nosey parkers. Plus there's chocolate and hugs.

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Thank you for the advice. So, what you're saying is maybe take up another hobby, or even just try writing something that isn't the genres I'm (trying) to write right now? Maybe? Or something close to the genres that I like without being entirely in it I guess?

Truthfully, I've only really recently started trying to write things longer than short stories. Mostly because I was told not too many short stories fall into Urban Fantasy and Suspense/Thriller, for one. Two, it may not be that publishable. Again, this was what I was told. And because of that, I started trying to write something that was longer than that. (I usually wrote stuff that fell between 2K - 5K in word length; a lot of these were Romance stories).

And a few years ago, before I even started writing original fiction, I was writing fan fiction. As a matter of fact, I wrote fan fiction and original fiction alongside one another for the longest time. Granted, my stories still sucked then. However, I did have fun doing it.

I didn't really like song writing as much as I thought I would. But I did enjoy writing poetry though. That was fun for a bit.

I can't believe I'm saying this. But do you think that maybe, just maybe I should write a little....fan fiction? Just to get my brain working again? Maybe even experiment with the genres I'm trying to write now a little more or something? Maybe? I don't necessarily have to post it I guess but just to write it.

Or even try writing poetry or something?

I'm really starting to get at my wit's end of what I should do.

Thanks guys for all of the help.

Silver-Midnight said:

I can't believe I'm saying this. But do you think that maybe, just maybe I should write a little....fan fiction? Just to get my brain working again? Maybe even experiment with the genres I'm trying to write now a little more or something? Maybe? I don't necessarily have to post it I guess but just to write it.

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Silver, I know you already know, but - fan fiction can be HUGELY fun to write. Whether you share it or not is up to you; but if it would bring you pleasure, by all means, DO IT.

You seem like you could use some joy in your life. I would suggest you worry less about what is "publishable" and have some fun. If it's not fun - who cares if it's publishable?

If you enjoy writing fan fiction, I say do it. Ignore anyone who says it's not "proper" writing. Who gets to decide what's "proper" or not? There's no-one standing at the end of the line to read all our humble offerings, waiting to pass judgement down on whether This Is A Proper Use Of Your Writing Ability. Although if you could include that guy in a story I would totally bow down to you.

I say writing should be fun!

Silver - it sounds almost like you wrote down what's in my head right now as well. I really get where you are, and the advice above is really good. And yeah, I actually went back and scribbled a bit of fan fiction when I was really stuck. I don't care about the 'thou must not write fanfiction' camps because it was fan fiction that got me writing in the first place, back when I was about 11 or something. I went back to it for pretty much the reasons you've mentioned, that I remembered when I used to write that stuff, I actually enjoyed it. Nowadays it's getting impossible to shut out all the 'writers' advice', thinking about target audiences, whether the quality is publishable or not, no matter how much I try to switch it off and it felt for a long while like I couldn't just shut off and enjoy writing. Doing the wee bit of fan fiction got me back in the mood again, enough to have a look again at the MS. If the urge is there, I'd say go with it.

lizmonster said:

Silver, I know you already know, but - fan fiction can be HUGELY fun to write. Whether you share it or not is up to you; but if it would bring you pleasure, by all means, DO IT.

You seem like you could use some joy in your life. I would suggest you worry less about what is "publishable" and have some fun. If it's not fun - who cares if it's publishable?

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onesecondglance said:

If you enjoy writing fan fiction, I say do it. Ignore anyone who says it's not "proper" writing. Who gets to decide what's "proper" or not? There's no-one standing at the end of the line to read all our humble offerings, waiting to pass judgement down on whether This Is A Proper Use Of Your Writing Ability. Although if you could include that guy in a story I would totally bow down to you.

I say writing should be fun!

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Zelenka said:

Silver - it sounds almost like you wrote down what's in my head right now as well. I really get where you are, and the advice above is really good. And yeah, I actually went back and scribbled a bit of fan fiction when I was really stuck. I don't care about the 'thou must not write fanfiction' camps because it was fan fiction that got me writing in the first place, back when I was about 11 or something. I went back to it for pretty much the reasons you've mentioned, that I remembered when I used to write that stuff, I actually enjoyed it. Nowadays it's getting impossible to shut out all the 'writers' advice', thinking about target audiences, whether the quality is publishable or not, no matter how much I try to switch it off and it felt for a long while like I couldn't just shut off and enjoy writing. Doing the wee bit of fan fiction got me back in the mood again, enough to have a look again at the MS. If the urge is there, I'd say go with it.

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Thanks you guys.

I actually use to write fan fiction and original fiction side-by-side, like I explained. I know this is going to sound wrong. But I started trying to shy away from fan fiction because I was told that I was slightly wasting my time and energy with it. Also, due to some books that were formerly fan fiction becoming published fiction and all of the mess/issues surround it, is another reason why I was trying to shy away from it as well.

But I guess I'm either just not ready, or maybe I'm just one of the those people who just has to write(and maybe even read) both fan fiction and original fiction. You know?

Dear Silver and Zelenka, Just a massive hug ((((((( ))))))) You'll get through this feeling. Believe in yourself, write what you want, get mad, or do whatever it takes to find your voice again. If you read over your own words, I think you'll see each of you knows what's best for yourself. (((((( )))))) Lucie

Silver-Midnight said:

Thanks you guys.

I actually use to write fan fiction and original fiction side-by-side, like I explained. I know this is going to sound wrong. But I started trying to shy away from fan fiction because I was told that I was slightly wasting my time and energy with it. Also, due to some books that were formerly fan fiction becoming published fiction and all of the mess/issues surround it, is another reason why I was trying to shy away from it as well.

But I guess I'm either just not ready, or maybe I'm just one of the those people who just has to write(and maybe even read) both fan fiction and original fiction. You know?

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I shied away because I was involved in a forum for other people who liked to write fan fiction and the bitchiness was just unbelievable. Plus, I started to get ideas for my own stuff that kind of took over. But I still find it a good 'scratch pad' almost. When I dabble with fan fiction it's like my brain is freed up a bit from thinking about the WIP, and as you say, it's a way to get some practice writing for different arenas and genres.

But whatever you end up doing, hopefully this is just a bump along the way, Silver, and you'll find your happiness in writing again! (((hugs)))

Wonder - I'm heading off for a little break tomorrow and that'll be my way of getting back into writing, I hope. I find Scotland is just not a good environment for me, creatively, maybe because I dislike living here so much that that sort of depressed state gets in the way. Getting out for a while, hopefully, will be the break I need. Looking forward to it.

Thanks for the kind words.

Zelenka said:

I shied away because I was involved in a forum for other people who liked to write fan fiction and the bitchiness was just unbelievable. Plus, I started to get ideas for my own stuff that kind of took over. But I still find it a good 'scratch pad' almost. When I dabble with fan fiction it's like my brain is freed up a bit from thinking about the WIP, and as you say, it's a way to get some practice writing for different arenas and genres.

But whatever you end up doing, hopefully this is just a bump along the way, Silver, and you'll find your happiness in writing again! (((hugs)))

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(((hugs))) Thanks. A lot. And I can understand wanting to shy away for that reason; it makes sense. With me, I think it has something to do with the characters and the world (or character and world creation). When I'm writing fan fiction, unless it's Alternative Universe, I really don't have to worry about character or world creation as much. Or rather, I don't worry about it as much as I do when I'm writing original stuff. (I do ask myself if this is OCC for this character a lot though. Hahaha) So, there is that.

Wonder - I'm heading off for a little break tomorrow and that'll be my way of getting back into writing, I hope. I find Scotland is just not a good environment for me, creatively, maybe because I dislike living here so much that that sort of depressed state gets in the way. Getting out for a while, hopefully, will be the break I need. Looking forward to it.

Thanks for the kind words.

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(((double hugs))). I think a new environment would help a lot too. Good luck. I hope you find your spark again.


I have no idea how I'm going to get mine back. >.<

Well, I still haven't been able to really write yet. But I don't feel as much as a sense of overwhelming failure.

Quick question though, what are you all's opinions on plot generators/story starters/prompts/etc.? I know some people have differing opinions. Some say they're good/okay to use. Some disagree. I've seen more disagreement with plot generators than anything else. However, I still think they might be helpful. But I wanted to get another(or other) opinion(s).

Silver-Midnight said:

Quick question though, what are you all's opinions on plot generators/story starters/prompts/etc.?

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I will demonstrate my ignorance by saying I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.

But I am 100% FOR anything that gets a person writing. Starting is 9/10ths of the battle.

lizmonster said:

I will demonstrate my ignorance by saying I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.

But I am 100% FOR anything that gets a person writing. Starting is 9/10ths of the battle.

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Oh wow. Um, generators or prompts can be a host of anything. It can be a single word. It can be a phrase, as in your story must contain this phrase or your story must start with this phrase. It can be a grouping of words, including only nouns, only verbs, or a combination of the two, sometimes even adjectives. It can be a phrase that says what your story is about overall, in a very, very, very, very general form. (ex: Like your story is about a witch who meets a vampire and saves the magical world). It can be a bunch of different stuff; it just depends on which generators you can find and which you like. It can even be an image prompt, a picture is the "inspiring moment" or whatever you want to say.

Silver-Midnight said:

Oh wow. Um, generators or prompts can be a host of anything. It can be a single word. It can be a phrase, as in your story must contain this phrase or your story must start with this phrase. It can be a grouping of words, including only nouns, only verbs, or a combination of the two, sometimes even adjectives. It can be a phrase that says what your story is about overall, in a very, very, very, very general form. (ex: Like your story is about a witch who meets a vampire and saves the magical world). It can be a bunch of different stuff; it just depends on which generators you can find and which you like. It can even be an image prompt, a picture is the "inspiring moment" or whatever you want to say.

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Isn't that how all stories start? Something you've seen, someone you've met, someone else's tale you imagine ending differently?

Sounds like a pretty good exercise to me. I'm sure there are people who object; but I'm all for taking your ideas from wherever they come.

And, because my husband and I were discussing this earlier, I will add: Writing advice is of limited usefulness. While there is almost always someone who will benefit from one tip or another, it won't be everyone. Each of us approaches our art differently - some with great detail and planning, some with just a word or image in mind.

Do what feeds YOUR art - not mine, not the art of a bunch of people who think prompts (or fan fiction, for that matter) are the "wrong" way to start. Wrong for them doesn't mean wrong for you.

lizmonster said:

And, because my husband and I were discussing this earlier, I will add: Writing advice is of limited usefulness. While there is almost always someone who will benefit from one tip or another, it won't be everyone. Each of us approaches our art differently - some with great detail and planning, some with just a word or image in mind.

Do what feeds YOUR art - not mine, not the art of a bunch of people who think prompts (or fan fiction, for that matter) are the "wrong" way to start. Wrong for them doesn't mean wrong for you.

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Oh, to be able to give multiple rep points to this.

lizmonster said:

Isn't that how all stories start? Something you've seen, someone you've met, someone else's tale you imagine ending differently?

Sounds like a pretty good exercise to me. I'm sure there are people who object; but I'm all for taking your ideas from wherever they come.

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lizmonster said:

And, because my husband and I were discussing this earlier, I will add: Writing advice is of limited usefulness. While there is almost always someone who will benefit from one tip or another, it won't be everyone. Each of us approaches our art differently - some with great detail and planning, some with just a word or image in mind.

Do what feeds YOUR art - not mine, not the art of a bunch of people who think prompts (or fan fiction, for that matter) are the "wrong" way to start. Wrong for them doesn't mean wrong for you.

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Thanks, Liz.

I use to use prompts a lot, especially when I got stuck. I think I might try them again. Just to see how well they work, if they do still work for me.

I'm going with Lizmonster here. Use what works for you. And I totally agree that our ideas - a line - a scene - a character - anything - can come from anywhere. Something someone says. Something you see or experience. A book you've read, a movie you watched.

The book I've just started is book two in a series. I've written chapter 1 and have started chapter 2. The funny thing is I don't yet know where I'm going.

I know who my main heroine is. She has a name, a face, and some of her background has been plotted out. That was developed in book 1. I have my supporting cast of characters from book 1, so that's also set, as well as my general setting (time and place). But that's it. I have not yet come up with my male lead. Not his name, face, or how he will relate to the story. Nor have I decided on the crime or the plot in general.

This is the first time I'm starting a book this way. It is also my first attempt at a series, so that might possibly have something to do with it. But I'm not discouraged. I'm just going to write until the light bulb gets clicked on. Then we'll see what kind of weirdness my brain has cooked up this time.

I know I was just in here. But I kind of came back for more....well, help kind of.

One of my really bad habits is that I get over anxious/obsessed with what font to use/type with(not submit, just typing up the story). Like it's really bad now. I mean before it was bad but now, it's really, really bad. It's like I'm trying to find this "perfect" font that will make my writing good or make it flow or something. I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous. But that's my rationality, at least while I'm searching through the fonts on whatever program I'm writing in(Scrivener, yWriter, MS Word, etc.)

Anyway, does anyone have any advice for getting out of that habit, of getting away from it? It would be appreciated. I know it's probably a subconscious thing and that I'm probably just trying to put off writing or I'm over stressing for my first draft. But still, I need to find a way to actually break away from that bad habit.


Thanks.