Guy on reddit claims to make $1k a day on amazon and never did any advertisement

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Noah Body

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Sounds legit to me, folks.

ETA: Finished the thread (still had some posts to go before posting before) and everything the guy says sounds totally legit. And I've been in the trenches for 9 months.

It's definitely a numbers game, and luck plays a part in it. Even if he's inflating his sales by 50%, he's still basically beating the stuffing out of the rest of us.
 
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Dani

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What are you marketing?

I do internet marketing, which is just a fancy word of saying that I build websites (blogs mostly) and advertise on them.

I think this guy writes what he wants to write. There are people just in int for a buck who write complete garbage. But that's true from everywhere.

I buy a lot of books from dreamspinnerpress. Some of them are really crap. I get frustrated because it's like sex sex sex story sex sex sex. Ugh. But plenty of people like that. Enjoy it even. I label it crap - others like it a lot. I thought they were poorly written as well, others have said they were terrific.

James Patterson and Jonathan Kellerman are my favorite authors of all time. They used to be on autobuy for me. Now they just zoom out a book without, it seems, any beta readers. (Not so much kellerman as Patterson. Most of kellerman's are still my all time favorites).

I don't think that publishing though a house is necessarily an indicator of quality anymore than I think self-publishing is an indicator of quality. Same goes for writing quickly or slowly. In both cases the name of teh game is numbers and volume.

Publishing houses have learned the same thing that I learned in IM and that konrath, hocking and locke have learned in self-pubbing - volume wins over quality, but there has to be SOME quality. *shrug*
 

izanobu

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For what it's worth, I have three pen names out there. The two that have zero internet presence (no blog, no FB, no website, nada) outsell the one with internet presence (and traditional publishing history) about 10 to 1. I also just divided the number of sales I have so far this month by the number of books I have and it comes out to ~8 per book so far. I don't do marketing beyond occasionally making something free for a week. Best marketing I've ever done was writing another book and putting it up. Nothing else has boosted sales quite the same way. Wish I had 80 titles already, because then I might be making more money than this guy. ;)
 
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Noah Body

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This guy and I are totally sympatico:

Sure, maybe you're the guy who wrote the next Harry Potter but remember, tons of people rejected her before someone took a chance on her.


Self-publishing is about good, not great. Look, you have to decide if you want to be the best writing author or the best selling author.


I just want financial security right now. If I can do this for a year or so, I'll be set for quite some time to come. I can work on the novels that actually MEAN something to me when I have a few hundred thousand in the bank and no debts.
Pretty much says it all right there. I'm sure there are those who will disagree, but hey, some people just like working for other people and making them rich. :D
 

Cyia

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This guy and I are totally sympatico:


Pretty much says it all right there. I'm sure there are those who will disagree, but hey, some people just like working for other people and making them rich. :D

Except for the part where this isn't true:

Sure, maybe you're the guy who wrote the next Harry Potter but remember, tons of people rejected her before someone took a chance on her.

Rowling hit it out of the park and pretty much skipped the rejection step.

And this:

Look, you have to decide if you want to be the best writing author or the best selling author.

There's also no reason to think you can't be both an excellent writer and an excellent seller. They don't have to be mutually exclusive and to imply that they do is just someone looking for a crutch or excuse not to make their writing better.

And this:

I just want financial security right now.

MOST people who self-e-publish DON'T have any kind of financial security right now. They don't sell enough to approach that level. You've got a better shot at short term financial security by scoring an advance.

If you're expecting to make a "few hundred thousand" dollars off self-publishing, you don't know enough about it to be doing it. (It's possible, of course, but isn't by any means common enough to be the expected outcome.)
 

Noah Body

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If that's how you want to look at it. My numbers are out there, and I'm not doing too badly for myself. Lots of time for improvement, though.
 

izanobu

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Cyia- Rowling didn't hit it out of the park. http://www.examiner.com/book-in-nat...repeatedly-and-sometimes-rudely-by-publishers
She was rejected by a bunch of publishers (#6 on the list that link posts, btw, just scroll down).

It's true though. Anyone going into publishing thinking they will get rich quick is delusional. However, given enough effort and time, making money isn't that difficult. Just like with any other small business or freelancing gig. You have to put the work and the patience into it.
 

Cyia

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Cyia- Rowling didn't hit it out of the park. http://www.examiner.com/book-in-nat...repeatedly-and-sometimes-rudely-by-publishers
She was rejected by a bunch of publishers (#6 on the list that link posts, btw, just scroll down).


Actually, that list circulates frequently and is notoriously inaccurate. Starting with #1 on the list (Stephen King).

Ditto Margret Mitchell and Gone With the Wind. It NEVER went out on submission, but was taken, before it was finished by an acquaintance who knew Mitchell and worked for a publisher. They had to beg her to publish it.

It's tripe.

Rowling got an agent with 1 round of queries, and her agent turned around and sold HP to Bloomsbury, not because the child insisted, but because the editor was smart enough to recognize that any book that made an 8 year old demand more was one worth publishing. (And FWIW, Bloomsbury may be small, but it published "The English Patient"; it was by no means the mediocre press those lists make it out to be.)
 
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Terie

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Rowling got an agent with 1 round of queries, and her agent turned around and sold HP to Bloomsbury, not because the child insisted, but because the editor was smart enough to recognize that any book that made an 8 year old demand more was one worth publishing. (And FWIW, Bloomsbury may be small, but it published "The English Patient"; it was by no means the mediocre press those lists make it out to be.)

Maybe one round of queries, but she was rejected. She tells some of the stories herself. I've heard an editor speak whose house rejected her. And she didn't hit it out of the park. The first UK press run of the first book was (IIRC) 500 copies. (All highly collectible now. :D) It wasn't until book 3 that the series really took off.
 

KalenO

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Maybe one round of queries, but she was rejected. She tells some of the stories herself. I've heard an editor speak whose house rejected her. And she didn't hit it out of the park. The first UK press run of the first book was (IIRC) 500 copies. (All highly collectible now. :D) It wasn't until book 3 that the series really took off.

Sure, but after a certain point that's all just semantics. I mean, show me a single author who wouldn't gladly suffer through the handful of rejections Rowling got before landing an agent their first round of querying. Then show me an author who wouldn't be equally happy with an initial print run of 500, in exchange for a publisher who'd even LET the series get up to book three and have the time it needed to find its audience.

Show me those authors, and I will show you a thousand authors more than happy to give them a reality check. I mean really, is there anything to be gained from trying to argue Rowling's experience can be compared to...anyone's? ;)
 
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izanobu

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I don't think you can compare any writer's experience to any other writer's. Not really. Other than maybe "don't quit". Quitting seems to be the only way to fail. (Well, barring doing something illegal or unsafe like threatening people or something).

But it is nice to see the different paths to success, because there is often something worth learning in paying attention to such things.
 

J. Tanner

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For what it's worth, I have three pen names out there. The two that have zero internet presence (no blog, no FB, no website, nada) outsell the one with internet presence (and traditional publishing history) about 10 to 1.

Assuming the other two aren't writing erotica (which would make the answer obvious) why do you think that is?
 

izanobu

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One pen name writes thrillers (so far only one novel up). So that seems pretty obvious why it would outsell the spec fic name. The other name has some literary short stories up. I have no idea why those sell so well, but they always have.

I think that there is no way to predict what will do well or won't once you reach a certain level of quality in your writing. If anyone could tell without a doubt how a book would do, we'd only have bestsellers. That's why I feel the key is to find what you love to write (which in my case covers a lot of genres, thank god) and write a lot of it. Some things will sell, some won't. And it might shift around, too. I have books that sold well early this year that sell little now and some that go the other way around.
Which is why I think this guy, with his "write lots and see what sticks" plan, doesn't have such a bad idea about it.
 

J. Tanner

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Which is why I think this guy, with his "write lots and see what sticks" plan, doesn't have such a bad idea about it.

Agreed. I'm inclined to think (hope?) it's basically true because most of the advice I've seen him dish out I think is valuable, and perhaps mythbusting for some. The guy has the working writer mentality I like rather than the "suffer for my art" attitute so many (some even in this thread!) think is typical and even reccommend.

(Maybe they're the next Franzen or aspire to be, that's fine too. But it's not the only way to write a "good" book, or have a writing career.)
 

Al Stevens

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But it's not the only way to write a "good" book, or have a writing career.)
To have a writing career--one that will support you--you must write stuff, good or not, that people want to read. If you don't do that, all the other things you do are pointless.
 

Alitriona

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As a writer, I don't know if the guy is legit. As a reader spending a lot of my hard earned money on books, the idea of good enough being enough effort doesn't sit well. I would rather spend my money on a writer who puts all their effort into an average book than a writer who feels their readers only deserve a mediocre effort.
 

J. Tanner

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As a writer, I don't know if the guy is legit. As a reader spending a lot of my hard earned money on books, the idea of good enough being enough effort doesn't sit well. I would rather spend my money on a writer who puts all their effort into an average book than a writer who feels their readers only deserve a mediocre effort.

I think you're bringing your own bias in characterizing this author's effort as "mediocre".

Many working professional writers are capable of producing high quality prose in their first drafts and so to call that "a mediocre effort" is not reasonable. I'm not saying this particular author is good, but his methodology is not at all unusual among pros and assuming he's honest, and assuming he's not writing erotica, then his repeat business suggests that the writing is reasonably solid.

If his "good enough" is twice as good as someone else's five agonizing drafts or something then I'll take it any day and I think most readers would agree.
 

KalenO

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I think you're bringing your own bias in characterizing this author's effort as "mediocre".

Many working professional writers are capable of producing high quality prose in their first drafts and so to call that "a mediocre effort" is not reasonable. I'm not saying this particular author is good, but his methodology is not at all unusual among pros and assuming he's honest, and assuming he's not writing erotica, then his repeat business suggests that the writing is reasonably solid.

If his "good enough" is twice as good as someone else's five agonizing drafts or something then I'll take it any day and I think most readers would agree.

Yes, but she's not using mediocre to describe his actual product, since none of us have read that obviously. Her use of mediocre is a direct response to him describing his work process and his OWN published work as 'good enough'. If by his own account he's fully aware he could produce higher quality work and is deliberately doing only the minimum to reach a lower standard of quality....again, she said mediocre EFFORT not mediocre work, and I think that's the problem most of us have with him even if he IS legit. If you're going to ask readers to fork over their money in exchange for your work, and you can't even be bothered to give them your best effort in exchange....that's a rather dismissive view of one's readership.
 

pfinucan

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For me, as a reader I am paying for the product not the effort. There is no way for me to know how hard the writer worked on something because different writers have different levers of talent. All I know is I paid $2.99 and was entertained or not. If I wasn't I wouldn't buy the next book.

I doubt he would be selling as well as he says he is, if he is disappointing his readers. If his product disappointed than that would show up in the reviews, which would hurt his sells.

But I would rather he put out a fun story every month, then spend a year polishing one if it only makes it marginally better. I read thrillers, SF, etc, for a fun story, not amazingly crafted sentences. I don't think I would even notice. But that is just me.

(btw I have no idea if the thread is real or not, I am assuming it is for now.)
 

J. Tanner

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Yes, but she's not using mediocre to describe his actual product

I don't think I characterized her comment different. You can see I referred to the effort as well in what you quoted.

My objection is characterizing the level of effort as "mediocre" when it's in fact it's not atypical of books most of us read (if you read popular fiction, or the classics) and further assuming that the level of effort is somehow more important than the results achieved.

If you're going to ask readers to fork over their money in exchange for your work, and you can't even be bothered to give them your best effort in exchange....that's a rather dismissive view of one's readership.

You owe them a quality product. If it's easy for you to generate that, more power to you. Honestly, I prefer that to hearing how Johnathan Franzen or George RR Martin struggle over their work. Are we really going to disparage Harlan Elison or Lawrence Block simply because their final prose is pretty much what they typed on the first try? Is that somehow a mediocre effort, somehow worse than Franzen or Martin? Do they really have to go back and do more to satisfy their readers? I can't imagine someone making that argument.

Unless it's about a self-pub author...

(But I can understand the temptation with the anonymity here, and the general stigma created by a lot of low quality self-pub content.)
 

Alitriona

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I don't think I characterized her comment different. You can see I referred to the effort as well in what you quoted.

My objection is characterizing the level of effort as "mediocre" when it's in fact it's not atypical of books most of us read (if you read popular fiction, or the classics) and further assuming that the level of effort is somehow more important than the results achieved.



You owe them a quality product. If it's easy for you to generate that, more power to you. Honestly, I prefer that to hearing how Johnathan Franzen or George RR Martin struggle over their work. Are we really going to disparage Harlan Elison or Lawrence Block simply because their final prose is pretty much what they typed on the first try? Is that somehow a mediocre effort, somehow worse than Franzen or Martin? Do they really have to go back and do more to satisfy their readers? I can't imagine someone making that argument.

Unless it's about a self-pub author...

(But I can understand the temptation with the anonymity here, and the general stigma created by a lot of low quality self-pub content.)

Since I've already agreed that KalenO was right and by effort I meant effort applied to the process rather that the work produced, I have to wonder if you are deliberately misinterpreting the word 'effort' to support your argument.

In general, I happen to believe content is important. there is absolutely nothing wrong with a consumer wanting to believe they are getting the best they can get for their money from a person providing a service. In this case the writer.

Maybe there are some who can produce an amazing work from a first draft and at the end of that honestly feel it's the best it can be.That's different to an author telling potential customers he is out to make money and will supply them with 'good enough' in return.

For instance, if I pay a plumper to fix something in my home, I'm going to pay my money to the guy who fixes it properly, not the guy who patches it up because he thinks that's all my cash and I deserve.

Obviously being the best a writer can be is not the only way to make money, but if there are two writers side by side. I know one is trying to bring me the best product they can provide and is making a serious effort to do that, I will support that author over the one who is churning out work that is great but could be better, except they don't believe the consumer deserves that.

From a customers point of view. I don't think it's a good idea for a writer to advertise they believe the cover holds more importance than content.
 
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