How much would middlin' successful authors make?

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
2,602
Reaction score
365
Location
Beautiful downtown Mordor
At one end, some authors make zero to maybe a hundred bucks a year. At the other end, you've got J.K. Rowling and Michael Crichton and such.

But what about authors who have been successful and reasonably prolific, but not movie-deal successful. I'm thinking (in the SF genre), authors like Niven, Gould, Sawyer, Card, Robinson (any of several), etc. Can you make a living at that level, or do they all have "day jobs"?
 

Ken

Banned
Kind Benefactor
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
11,478
Reaction score
6,198
Location
AW. A very nice place!
It's all very humbling when you do the math. Say they get 10%. Big name authors like those you mention may. If a book sells for $10 they get a $1 a book, minus the agent's cut = 85 cents. Minus Uncle Sam's = 70 cents. Even if they sell 100,000 copies that's $70,000. More realistically they sell half that, if they're lucky: $35,000. Then I'd suppose they're always going to be raking in royalties from past projects. So add 20G's. Final figure = $60,000 a year. So maybe between 45-75,000. My guess. Some probably make substantially more. I doubt any make substantially less.
 

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
18,981
Reaction score
6,933
Location
At some altitude
Website
www.jamie-mason.com
How long is a piece of string?

There's no average, or not in the sense that anyone's bank deposits are going to indicate such. I have one and a half books out there. (The half being one that's due out in February.) Since getting my contract in 2011, I have earned closed to double each year since then than I ever earned in my regular job. Check back in five years and that number may be anywhere in the range from nothing to way better.

Unfortunately, you can't go into the writing business with very specific expectations of payment. Or even a vague range, sadly. All you can do is have a backup plan, do your best, and hope for the best. There aren't any safe bets.

ETA - Oh, and as far as I can tell, TGF was middling successful. I mean, nobody tells you this, of course. It just seems to me that it was. The book, in its paperback incarnations, made it to the racks in Target and Walmart and the chain grocery stores in addition to regular bookstores. I found it in every place I looked for it when I was on vacation last month. That was such a nerdy thrill. For some reason, that seemed to be a mark of middling success, but I have to admit that I just completely made up that yardstick. I don't know what it means for anyone else.
 
Last edited:

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
So much depends on genre, level of productivity, how a writer chooses to publish, how good their agent is. If you have just one middle-selling book out your income is going to be a lot different to if you have several, plus attendant foreign editions, large-print, and audio editions.

And writers don't just earn money from the books they write: they might also write articles, teach, speak at conferences, and so on.

There are so many variables, then, that it's really hard to give you a straight answer. But if you assume that it's not very much you should be safe.
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
Can we discuss Niven being classified as 'middling'?

:Wha:
 

Kevans

Fish from another stream
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
471
Reaction score
41
Location
New Mexico
We are still at the point that we make more in tax deductions than cash payments from publishers.

A good year for us is $2K or so, at an average of two to ten hours a week of writing, editing, and communicating with the markets.

In fifteen months we are pulling the plug on the day job, and retiring to southern Idaho. Then we will write full time, still we will most likely live from our retirement income.

Regards,
Kevin
 

williemeikle

The force is strong in this one.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
3,732
Reaction score
669
Location
Canada
Website
www.williammeikle.com
I don't have any deals with the mass market, just small presses, short stories to pro mags and my ebook sales, yet I've been full time for seven years. I'm sure the likes of Niven et al are getting along just fine...
 

williemeikle

The force is strong in this one.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
3,732
Reaction score
669
Location
Canada
Website
www.williammeikle.com
:ROFL: I'll take the rebuke. Niven is one of my favorite authors, but I doubt if he's as wealthy as JK Rowling or Crichton. Neither of whom I like anywhere near as much as Niven.

Well Crichton's dead, so I don't think it matters much to him.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
:ROFL: I'll take the rebuke. Niven is one of my favorite authors, but I doubt if he's as wealthy as JK Rowling or Crichton. Neither of whom I like anywhere near as much as Niven.

Actually, Niven was a trust fundee before he became an author. Still probably not as rich as Rowling, though.
 

thedark

Weaving through the night.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
1,558
Reaction score
463
Location
Not where Google thinks.
Well Crichton's dead, so I don't think it matters much to him.

Wait, what?

I'm afraid to go to Google.

In fact, I'm just going to block this whole conversation out in my head.

*la la la*

Whimper. Jurassic Park was the first "grown up" book I ever read. At 9.

I went to Google. I'm sad.

And yes, apparently I've been living under a literary rock for the last 6 years.

Sigh.
 

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer
Super Member
Registered
Temp Ban
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
268
Location
Los Angeles
Website
LaerCarroll.com
What others have said, plus this.

The super-successes with one or a few books are so rare that everyone trumpets their success loudly, raising the hopes of beginners.

But for most authors how much you make depends much on how much you’re written and for how many years. The most popular average authors build from a few small successes. As the years go by new readers discover you and run to the library or the used book store or, sometimes, buy the most recent republished edition of your books, maybe with a new cover & new blurbs & more praise from other authors.

So you have to ask yourself: Are you in the writing game for the long haul? Or not?
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
:ROFL: I'll take the rebuke. Niven is one of my favorite authors, but I doubt if he's as wealthy as JK Rowling or Crichton. Neither of whom I like anywhere near as much as Niven.

Well if we're defining 'middling' as 'less rich from book sales/rights than Rowling (or Chrichton)... this is like asking how much a middle-class person makes and defining middle class as lower than Bill Gates.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
Well if we're defining 'middling' as 'less rich from book sales/rights than Rowling (or Chrichton)... this is like asking how much a middle-class person makes and defining middle class as lower than Bill Gates.
lol exactly
 

Good Crazy

Frolicking on the edge of sanity
Registered
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
Location
In my head

RightHoJeeves

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
1,326
Reaction score
155
Location
Perth
Stats from articles like that are a bit misleading I think, because it sort of assumes that everyone is on a level playing field. It's useless saying "an aspiring author has XY% of making $XY a year", because authors are not successful at random. They're successful for writing good books (or, at least, giving the readership what it wants).

And really, what makes a good book is no secret. Strong characters, interesting conflict, good writing, etc.

It's my firm belief that an aspiring author can stand head and shoulders above their competition simply by being better than their competition. Having said that, I am not yet published... but I think my point is still valid.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
But what about authors who have been successful and reasonably prolific, but not movie-deal successful. I'm thinking (in the SF genre), authors like Niven, Gould, Sawyer, Card, Robinson (any of several), etc. Can you make a living at that level, or do they all have "day jobs"?

You can not only make a living at this level, you can be rich by anyone's standards. Most of these guys guys make a boatload of money. I don't know about Robinson, but the others do extremely well.

There are no average, and anyone who gives you numbers has about one chance in a thousand of being right. Writing and selling is as individual as anything in the world.

But, yes, if you reach the level of these guys, you'll never have to worry about money again. . .unless you have ridiculously expensive habits.
 

Maryn

Sees All
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,440
Reaction score
25,458
Location
Snow Cave
Guess I should lay off the crack, then. Damn it.
 

Locke

Lost the instruction manual
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
555
Reaction score
47
Location
Spartanburg, SC
Wait, what?

I'm afraid to go to Google.

In fact, I'm just going to block this whole conversation out in my head.

*la la la*

Whimper. Jurassic Park was the first "grown up" book I ever read. At 9.

I went to Google. I'm sad.

And yes, apparently I've been living under a literary rock for the last 6 years.

Sigh.

His copyright assets are still being maintained as a trust. I admire about half of what Crichton did, but there are some real stinkers in there, too. I'm still angry at him for State of Fear.
 

Jackx

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
73
Reaction score
7
At one end, some authors make zero to maybe a hundred bucks a year. At the other end, you've got J.K. Rowling and Michael Crichton and such.

But what about authors who have been successful and reasonably prolific, but not movie-deal successful. I'm thinking (in the SF genre), authors like Niven, Gould, Sawyer, Card, Robinson (any of several), etc. Can you make a living at that level, or do they all have "day jobs"?

If you cut out the two ends of the spectrum, the majority of the authors would probably fall into the <$20K a year category. Movie deal success is usually very small, too, especially if you consider that most books that are optioned for film never get past the option stage, which usually only pays a few grand, if that. Even if the book does beat the astronomical odds and gets made into a film, the deals are usually only 2% to 3% of the overall budget, and they're usually capped at both ends. For example, they'll have to pay you a minimum of $50K or a max of $200K. Good money, but definitely not F U money.
 
Last edited: