Let's talk hair!

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Lillith1991

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We already have the thread about hair, but that one is much more focused on one style and not hair in general.

Hair is one of those things that are often overlooked when it comes to a culture, so I was wondering about other peoples views on their hair. Is it just hair, an additional way to express your creativity, or a way you express your culture?

For me, my hair isn't just hair. It's part an expression of freedom and creativity, and part an expression of pride in my heritage. I love being mixed, that my father's family is predominantly Black. I love that my maternal grandfather was half Indian and maternal grandmother is mostly Jewish. Twisting my hair, braiding it up, pressing it once in a blue moon and letting my Khmer cousins style it in traditionally Khmer styles if they want. I love doing all that stuff. Right now it's in the first wash n go I've worn since Christmas, and I'm loving my fro.

Pull up a chair, and lets talk hair.
 

kuwisdelu

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Hair is definitely important to me culturally. As many probably know, when Native Americans children were forcibly sent to boarding schools, the idea was to "kill the Indian, save the [white] man". The goal was erasure of culture, which included taking our names, taking our language, taking our clothes, and, yes, taking our hair. Hair is significant in many Native cultures, so part of erasing our cultures meant cutting our hair, usually by force.

I don't usually wear my own hair as long as traditional styles, but having longer hair is important to me. It helps remind me of who I am when I'm far from home.

One of my friends who is black has recently stopped straightening her hair, and is really excited about growing it out and embracing her natural hair. It's empowering to reclaim who you are from who society expects you to be.

Even outside of culture, many people use hair as more than an expression of creativity. Many people cut their hair to mark break-ups, new chapters in their lives, and other big changes.
 

Lillith1991

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One of my friends who is black has recently stopped straightening her hair, and is really excited about growing it out and embracing her natural hair. It's empowering to reclaim who you are from who society expects you to be.

I know how your friend feels, Kuwi. When I first started growing out my natural hair, it was really exciting. It still excites me, because there's a myth that Black hair doesn't grow inside and outside the community. It's not nice, but I like to stretch my hair out fully to show people they're wrong when they say that and respond to Black people who say it's because my mom is white, by pointing out fully Black naturals with hair both looser than and equally long as mine. Wearing my hair long and natural has been empowering for me made me more comfortable about who I am in other ways as well.

Though I've got to say, 90% of what backlash I've received in regards to my hair has been from Black or Hispanic people instead of other groups. And being asked when I'm going to 'do' my hair IE. get it relaxed or pressed, makes me give people a major stink eye. Even my own brother gets that look from me when he asks that and now stipulates that he means braiding and not relaxing.
 
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C.bronco

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I am sorry, and I don't mean to derail, but whenever I think of POC, I think Pen Of Choice while rooting through the pens in the mug on my desk, and trying to find the ergonomic one.

Feel free to ignore me. I just had to share. It took me awhile to figure out what PoC meant initially, and that is clearly my shortcoming. You are free to make fun of me at will.
 

Fruitbat

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Okay, Bronco, I will make fun of you!

Um, are you bucking?

Sorry, that's all I got.

Hair. Hmm. I wish I had more of it. I guess that's all.

*slinks away*
 

Putputt

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There isn't really a traditional day-to-day hairstyle in either of my cultures (Chinese and Indonesian), that I know of, but this is a really interesting thread! I didn't even know what "relaxing" meant until I Googled it. :) Lillith, in your profile pic, is that your natural hair? It's really pretty.

As an aside, I've always wanted hair that goes beyond my bewbs, but it never gets long enough before it starts getting all nasty and split-endy and I have to go for a trim.
 

Lillith1991

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There isn't really a traditional day-to-day hairstyle in either of my cultures (Chinese and Indonesian), that I know of, but this is a really interesting thread! I didn't even know what "relaxing" meant until I Googled it. :) Lillith, in your profile pic, is that your natural hair? It's really pretty.

As an aside, I've always wanted hair that goes beyond my bewbs, but it never gets long enough before it starts getting all nasty and split-endy and I have to go for a trim.

Thanks! Yes‚ that is my natural hair braided in 14 chunky braids and allowed to dry before being taken down. My actual curl pattern is pencil and smaller sized curls.

Putt, have you tried just trimming an inch off and then tucking your hair away in some form or fashion? Or looked into changing your products? Once hair ges a certain length it tends to rub on everything and that partially is the cause of splits, getting the ends off of stuff and keeping them moisturized has been known to help people of almost every hair type combo grow their hair if they want to.
 
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Putputt

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Aaand I just had to Google "pencil curls". :D I am a total hair noob. I love the blonde highlights you got too. *considers getting highlights...* NO IT WILL ONLY MAKE MORE HAIR FALL OUT, STOP IT, SELF.
 

Putputt

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kuwisdelu

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But yeah, there is quite a heartbreaking history on the Chinese queue. I think my friends and I were all very mystefied learning about it in elementary school. We'd just assumed that it was, you know, just a hair style.

That's the thing. Hair is rarely just hair. ;)
 

Chris P

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Interesting topic, Lilith! I wasn't sure what you were getting at when you posted the idea in the Sloppy Joe thread, to be honest. (Oh, and the hair in your profile pic is gorgeous!)

Being ethnically and socioeconomically part of the "mainstream" in this country, I never thought of my hair being a cultural expression, but it certainly is! In college in the late 80s and early 90s, I grew it out about halfway down my back as part of the partyer/college student/hard rock enthusiast look. Several of my friends did the same, and in new social situations I gravitated toward the people with similar hair (as well as clothing, etc.). We all used it for cultural identity. I was going to let it grow all through grad school, but it looked like grad school wasn't going to happen for a while, so I chopped it off to look for a job. Gotta look mainstream, dontcha know :) I cut it on a Saturday, that Monday I got my grad school acceptance letter!

I kept it to the longer end of short until my mid 30s. It was clearly falling out (damn you genetics!) long before, and people told me I should just buzz it all off. I didn't because I was afraid I would look like a skinhead, and that was definitely a culture I didn't want to be identified with. At that time (early 00s) only guys over 45 or so buzzed. Younger ones just looked angry all the time. But now that I'm in my 40s, I think it looks good buzzed, and buzz it every ten days or so. And yeah, it fits the work culture I'm hoping to get a job in, although lots of guys with horseshoes do let theirs grow. It just looks horrible on me.
 
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Lillith1991

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That's the thing. Hair is rarely just hair. ;)

I agree. How we care for it, what we use on it, and how we style it can be influenced by our cultural backround/ethnicity. Considering how much people spend on their hair, I always raise an eyebrow at people thinking it's just hair.

Chris: Thank you for the compliment! I put a lot of time into my mane, and I enjoy hearing that it shows.
 
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Chris P

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When I lived in Uganda, my skin color identified my culture more than my hair did, especially since Ugandan men buzz their heads too. But the funny part was, I had to go to three different village barbers before I could find one who could buzz my head. The others all left it too long. The first one took over an hour because she didn't understand how Caucasian hair lays ("soft hair" they called it) and couldn't get the clippers to cut right. I tried to explain to her to start at the neck and go upward, but she couldn't figure out what I meant. She left it too long because the myth over there is that white skin is delicate so she was afraid to cut it without the clipper guard on. Of course in the cities with lots of expats they do just fine; the village was another matter. But I got so frustrated. I'd see all these Ugandan men running around with shaved heads and couldn't figure why they couldn't do mine the same way.

Arm and leg hair is another story. Ugandans are not hairy people, and when I would be riding my bike in shorts, children would sometimes literally throw themselves on the ground and stroke my leg hair when I stopped. One day in church two teenage girls started tugging on my arm hairs. I just smiled and let them. No harm in their curiosity.
 

backslashbaby

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My actual hair is a dark-brown-auburn mix of Native American and that curly red Celtic sort, both from my mom's side of the family. My maternal grandfather and grandmother were both mixed-blood (different tribes). I got the hair, hand/nails and eye color of my mother and her NA Muscogee/ white Scots-Irish-Lumbee dad. My Lumbee family was 'white', but don't get me started on that, lol. Suffice it to say that I'm also part African-American from the Lumbee parts, white skin or no. (They are a mix of 3 races, for ages now).

So... I do like the traditional native styles best, because my hair looks best that way and I know that it's also cultural even if my white skin gives little clue of that for other people. We (Muscogee) have a few religious/cultural hair things we do for funerals and 'superstitions', too, and those are very important to me.

OTOH, I do have to straighten and oil it to get it to look like that. Mine is actually quite curly and large. I relate to mixed-race Black girls most on my hair and probably always will. I use Black products, because they fit my hair so well. If I could only get generic white or Black hairdressers to believe me when I say that instead of still picking 'white girl' products. It always ends a mess at the salon when they don't listen :D

There are very curly-haired fully white girls who should be the same, but their product suggestions just never work for mine. So I don't know what my hair is, but it's certainly a blend of cultures, lol. Between me and it, it's NA, white and Black. I swear we need a Creole line of hair products and that would simplify a lot.

I can't get away with a large pseudo-afro, though, being white :( I wish I could, just because that's my hairs' natural state and it looks cool to me. I bet I could get away with it in Brazil or somewhere where they have mixes more like mine.
 
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Lillith1991

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When I lived in Uganda, my skin color identified my culture more than my hair did, especially since Ugandan men buzz their heads too. But the funny part was, I had to go to three different village barbers before I could find one who could buzz my head. The others all left it too long. The first one took over an hour because she didn't understand how Caucasian hair lays ("soft hair" they called it) and couldn't get the clippers to cut right. I tried to explain to her to start at the neck and go upward, but she couldn't figure out what I meant. She left it too long because the myth over there is that white skin is delicate so she was afraid to cut it without the clipper guard on. Of course in the cities with lots of expats they do just fine; the village was another matter. But I got so frustrated. I'd see all these Ugandan men running around with shaved heads and couldn't figure why they couldn't do mine the same way.

Arm and leg hair is another story. Ugandans are not hairy people, and when I would be riding my bike in shorts, children would sometimes literally throw themselves on the ground and stroke my leg hair when I stopped. One day in church two teenage girls started tugging on my arm hairs. I just smiled and let them. No harm in their curiosity.

My uncle owns a barber shop, and I have noticed him cut kinky/nappy hair in a slightly different way than looser hair types. He can get any head of hair shaved if someone comes in to see him, he just adjusts how to suit his clients. If I ever go back to a short fro, I would go to him. It sounds to me like a good chunk of your problwm was the white skin being delicate myth, because they couldn't get close enough if they were freaked out about hurting you.
 

J.S.F.

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At my age, I'm surprised that I have any hair left. That's all I really have to offer to this conversation. :D

However, while I think that hair is an important expression of who you are (culture, race, or both) I'm going to toss in a potential derail and offer that if a person who is not a PoC wears a hairstyle that is something like what a PoC's traditional style might be like--and if it's done in good taste (subjective, I know)--then it should not be censured.

I know this is going to open up a can of cultural whoop-ass on me, but I think that if the hairstyle is done out of respect and consultation with a PoC as opposed to doing it in order to make a statement, then should that person who is not a PoC be made to change it? This is an honest question from a white guy who's allegedly privileged.
 

Putputt

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There's like an entire thread on that subject, JSF. Here it is.

I for one would much rather this thread be focused on hair and its role in different cultures instead of devolving into a "why can't white people wear this or that hairstyle" debate.
 
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Kylabelle

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There's like an entire thread on that subject, JSF. Here it is.

I for one would much rather this thread be focused on hair and its role in different cultures instead of devolving into a "why can't white people wear this or that hairstyle" debate.

I believe that was the OP's intention too, as a way to explore further what is really an intriguing area of human expression.

I've been feeling quite bereft, in fact, that my white background lacks all hints of cultural or ethnic hair treatment. But, I have dredged up one thing from my earlier research into a different topic, that of spiritual roots and indigenous religion. I looked, at a certain stage, for what that might be for Western European heritage.

As regards hair, I learned that in the Earth-based pagan religions, hair was felt to be a connection to spirit, and if one left one's hair long and loose, it served almost as connecting cords to spirit. Binding up one's hair was to cut off that connection. This may be part of the background source for some of the more severe hairstyles that developed among Christian Protestants, Puritans, etc.

Personally, I have always longed for thicker, curlier hair, as I have that thin straight fine hair that becomes filled with static in cold dry weather. Drives me bonkers. The spirits will have to wait because my hair is bound until another season! :D
 

Ken

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... black girl; high school. Went to JHS with her too. One day she decided to stop shaving her legs. Kinda apparent as wore short skirts. Cheerleader. Rocking bod. Very independent too. Did her own thing and was much respected. There was some mumbling and snide remarks about her stubbly gams but outside of that that was that. Goes to show that if you are confident and self-assured you can do your own thing. Cool. Wish I had those traits. Shave mine regularly :eek:
 

Lillith1991

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Aaand I just had to Google "pencil curls". :D I am a total hair noob. I love the blonde highlights you got too. *considers getting highlights...* NO IT WILL ONLY MAKE MORE HAIR FALL OUT, STOP IT, SELF.

Putputt, I mentioned this earlier but would like give it it's own post.

I believe that baring health concerns and genetics, anyone can grow their hair to whichever length they want. It's all about doing what your hair wants you to do. I wash my hair once a week, keep it stretched 80% of the time, wear it out of the way in some manner 75% of the time whether left to shrink or worn stretched, moisturize and seal my hair daily etc. My hair loves it. I think you just need to find out what works for your hair in terms of growing it out.


Back on the cultural aspect type of thing. The Black community spends a lot of money on hair products. But I feel like a lot of Black people have some major misconceptions about our hair. I've had people ask me why my hair is so kinky when my younger sister has looser hair then mine, how I got my hair so long, how I got my hair pattern. And that's all come from the Black community and not outside it. In my opinion, it comes from mimicing white people for so long when it comes to how we style and care for our hair. Kids will wear pony puffs, twists, fros etc. and it's thought of as cute. But that tends to go out the window around puberty, and people seem to forget how to care for their hair once they relax or texturize it. Texturized and relaxed hair I've noticed, tends to be treated as "white" hair (I can't tell you how much I hate the whole white hair myth. My grandmother was predominantly Jewish, her hair was curly and she had enough hair for 3 people. There's no damn thing as "white people hair!"). Which ends up with people speaking palitudes about how "Black hair don't grow." Nuh uh, it grows. Trust and believe it does. It isn't your hair, it's you not taking care of it properly. Relaxers every month is damaging, especially when silly people think you have to double and septuple process already relaxed hair. It's your hair breaking off for lack of protein and moisture, or you ripping a comb through it from root to tip and flatironing it all the time.
 
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Chris P

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I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to. The manufacturers are responding to a market need after all, although all manufacturers would like to create their own market need.

My (WASP) daughter and I were shopping for hair products one day. She picked up one and I pointed out the text on the can "for women of color." She grabbed her raspberry-tinted locks and said "Hell-OOO! Color!"
 

ap123

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I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to.

I'm not sure what the difference is, but there definitely is one. My middle guy's hair is mostly straight (one kinky patch in the back that we thought would spread and become the afro my husband had when he had hair, but no, remained that one little patch), but very, very thick. I'm pretty sure you could string a guitar with his hairs. ;) In any case, the shampoos/conditioners that work for his hair are designed for Black hair. It took us too long to figure that out, doesn't matter if it's Suave, Pantene, or Frederic Fekkai, products for "white" hair don't work for him.

It also makes a difference when getting your hair done that the hairdresser have experience with your type of hair texture. My hair is neither straight nor curly, one big frizz bomb. I once let a friend talk me into going to her hairdresser, Chinese man in Chinatown, all Asian customers. Took him hours to blow and straighten my hair. The Dominican ladies up the street can have my hair done in under 15 minutes. :Shrug:

Someone told me recently about a product that's kind of like hair dye without the color, adds shine and weighs it down to minimize frizz--has anyone tried this?
 

Putputt

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Putputt, I mentioned this earlier but would like give it it's own post.

I believe that baring health concerns and genetics, anyone can grow their hair to whichever length they want. It's all about doing what your hair wants you to do. I wash my hair once a week, keep it stretched 80% of the time, wear it out of the way in some manner 75% of the time whether left to shrink or worn stretched, moisturize and seal my hair daily etc. My hair loves it. I think you just need to find out what works for your hair in terms of growing it out.

Hmm, it might be genetics, because my mom's hair has thinned a lot over the years. She gets treatment for it now though, so it's grown more again. I wash my hair every other day. That's the longest I can go without shampooing it before the scalp gets too greasy for me to bear. I only shampoo the scalp though, not the entire length of the hair. I condition the ends and after rinsing, I put coconut oil on the ends. It hasn't really helped with the split ends. :-/ I will try what you said about tying the ends to help with the friction. That does make sense.

I've never heard of the Black hair doesn't grow thing. Weird that there's even that misconception. Of course it grows, how else would it get long??

Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.
 
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