Unsympathetic Female Lead

Status
Not open for further replies.

Captcha

Banned
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
637
I've seen quite a bit about unsympathetic male leads, but not nearly as much about unsympathetic female leads.

Do you guys have any ideas on this? I'm thinking of writing a story where a spoiled Paris Hilton type gets caught up in a survival situation and has to work with the male lead to get out of it. Through the course of the book she grows up and actually ends up being a person of some depth, but you'd never guess it at the start.

Will this fly? We're told that readers have to identify with our female characters, and I really don't think people will (or should) until well into the book. Has anyone read/written anything like this?

Suggestions, comments, solutions?

Thanks for any help.
 

angeluscado

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
289
Reaction score
19
Location
British Columbia, Canada
I can't remember reading anything like this before, but if the character grew and changed throughout the story, I'd give it a shot. It's the characters that remain the same horrible people after going through something life-changing who bug me to no end.
 

htrent

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
299
Reaction score
18
Location
Colorodda.
Website
www.holleytrent.com
I'm about to have one of those. I'm pulling a character from a previous book and pairing her with the third friend in a series. She was very surly in the first book, and is going to start that way in the new one, too.

That's going to be part of her arc, though.

I think the trick is to give the reader occasional clues that the woman is redeemable or that she'll be likeable by the end. In my case, I have to give the reader a reason to root for her in spite of her numerous faults.

It's not going to be an easy book to write.
 

Captcha

Banned
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
637
I wonder if I should do this one ALL from her POV. I think I can make her at least a little sympathetic if I can show that her thoughts don't always match her actions, but if I go into someone else's POV it might poison the character for everyone...

Hmmm...
 

snc84

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
150
Reaction score
12
Location
where the snow never falls
What you are describing reminds me of the spoiled brat in the show LOST. Her name is Shannon, she starts off really annoying but partners up with one of the more tough guys. He starts off protecting her but then teaches her how to take care of herself. In the end, you are really disappointed when she dies, especially when you see how upset the guy is.

I can see it working well, if you do it right. Try not to offend the reader with something she does or says, that you can't make up for as the character changes.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

Vampire Junkie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
4,470
Reaction score
658
^One of the advantages of Lost though is there were literally dozens of other characters to care about, so it didn't matter that much if you hated a few of them. I imagine it's quite a different ballgame if your POV character is the one who's annoying at the start, with no alternatives.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
I've seen quite a bit about unsympathetic male leads, but not nearly as much about unsympathetic female leads.

Do you guys have any ideas on this? I'm thinking of writing a story where a spoiled Paris Hilton type gets caught up in a survival situation and has to work with the male lead to get out of it. Through the course of the book she grows up and actually ends up being a person of some depth, but you'd never guess it at the start.

Will this fly? We're told that readers have to identify with our female characters, and I really don't think people will (or should) until well into the book. Has anyone read/written anything like this?

Suggestions, comments, solutions?

Thanks for any help.
I don't like the bully reviewer types who have to whine every time a female character shows some weakness. I prefer flawed heroines myself but I know there is a very loud vocal crowd that goes apeshit any time a heroine has suicide thoughts or is weak in any major way. Screw them. I want these other stories.
Also look at Clueless. Mind you I guess Elle works as a heroine because although she's very appearance and pop culture centered so she looks shallow she's also sweet and kind.
There's also one of the three main characters in Nora Robert's Montana sky that has this type of redemption arc.

Anyway it's a valid plot idea but it borders on Chick Lit and the term to use to sell Chick lit these days is Contemporary Romantic Comedy now that the Chick Lit term is OUT. lol
Another book I love with this kind of thing is Save Karyn by Karyn Bosnik although that's autobiography it's as much of a fun read as the best Chick Lit ever.
 
Last edited:

Ardelie

I don't like the bully reviewer types who have to whine every time a female character shows some weakness. I prefer flawed heroines myself but I know there is a very loud vocal crowd that goes apeshit any time a heroine has suicide thoughts or is weak in any major way. Screw them. I want these other stories.

I'm in the same camp with gingerwoman. As long as you show a hint of a redemption arc or some small positive character trait in the heroine, it's perfectly fine to write an unsympathetic female lead. I like variety in female characters and I think too often they're written to be everybody's BFF. Not many antihero females populating books and that's kind of a shame. Women shouldn't have to be good, nurturing, likeable, etc. all the time!

The vapid Paris Hilton type is a stretch for me, mostly because I'd find her annoying, but if the male lead is strong and she does have character growth, I'd say go for it. Sounds like a fun book.
 

katci13

creative genie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
119
Location
tennessee
YES! Go for it! It's totally fine. I've read lots of books like this. Seen lots of movies like this as well. The best feedback I ever got from an agent was on a story with a spoiled protagonist. She grows and changes and learns a lot, blah, blah, blah. But she starts off spoiled and naive and privileged and stays that way for half of the book. The story had other problems, but she loved the MC and the concept.
 

linkonrad

Registered
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
4
Location
Australia
Jane Austen wrote Emma, with a lead who was pretty unlikeable at times, but it's still a book many people enjoy.

Go for it! I'd read it. :)
 

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
3,459
Reaction score
653
Website
www.joannabourne.com
You might give this 'unsympathetic' character some traits that appeal to the reader. For instance -- we see her being selfish and shallow. But then, we notice her house is full of rescue cats and three-legged dogs nobody else will take in.

Or you can show why she acts the way she does. Maybe after she's just been particularly snappish and spoiled to the hero, we show her talking to her mother who is a real piece of work. Enough to make anybody grow up looking out for herself.

And/or you could give your heroine a friend who, in essence, telegraphs to the reader in either words or thoughts that the heroine is either salvageable or has more to her than shows on the surface.

If you decide to do something along these lines, I'd sneak it in early.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
This thread makes me wonder if I am an unusually picky reader. Nobody else avoids books with unsympathetic main characters, regardless of gender? Or maybe I have a different definition of sympathetic, somehow...?
 

Captcha

Banned
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
637
Sunandshadow - do you avoid books where the MC is initially unsympathetic but there are hints of redemption, or just those where the MC is unsympathetic throughout?
 

sohalt

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
392
Location
Austria
Website
notsosilentsister.tumblr.com
Bring it on! I love the mean girls. Redemption is one of the best arcs you can give a character. There are not nearly enough female anti-heroes in our stories.

There are lots of way how you can make readers root for a character inspite of their questionable morals. Sometimes these characters even get worse in the morality department as the story progresses and readers still root for them (eg. Don Draper, Tony Soprano, Walt in Breaking Bad, etc.). Look at male anti-heroes for how this is done.

1) Make her competent. It's always fun to watch someone who's good at what she does, even if what she does is sometimes not very nice. The competence shouldn't be just an informed ability - the narrative should give her repeated opportunity to show how good she is at what she does.

2) Never have her be too mean to any of our darlings. Reserve the worst of her meanness for characters we don't care about all that much. Sure, she's a bit of a bitch to our favourites, but she's even more of a bitch to characters we properly hate, who really have it coming. Which leads us to

3) Contrast her with someone who's even worse with regard to all her flaws. (I suspect that's one of the big tricks how someone like George R.R. Martin gets us to root for someone like Jaime Lannister - sure, he pushed a child out of a window to hide his incestuous affair, but compared to the likes of Gregor Clegane and Ramsay Bolton, he's downright chivalric). Put her in conflict with them and have us root for her to come out on top.

As to examples for when it's done well:
Cordelia, in Whedon's Buffy
Lady Mary in Downton Abbey (starts out as pretty stuck-up and callous)
 

sohalt

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
392
Location
Austria
Website
notsosilentsister.tumblr.com
4) Give her a Freudian excuse for all the bitchiness, so that people can woobify her.

And maybe, try to not make the redemption arc too much like Taming of the Shrew, where redemption equals becoming a doormat.

Humble her, but don't humilate her. Let her keep some of her pride.
 

Captcha

Banned
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
637
Oh, I'm WITH you on the not-take-it-too-far bit! The ending of Taming of the Shrew? A nightmare!

I like the other ideas, though - thanks!
 

S. L. Saboviec

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
585
Reaction score
109
Location
Toronto
Website
www.saboviec.com
What you are describing reminds me of the spoiled brat in the show LOST. Her name is Shannon, she starts off really annoying but partners up with one of the more tough guys. He starts off protecting her but then teaches her how to take care of herself. In the end, you are really disappointed when she dies, especially when you see how upset the guy is.

That's funny, I thought this very same thing yesterday when I read the thread but didn't post it. We're watching Lost on Netflix, so we're at this point where she just got shot in the chest and I'm direly hoping that she'll just die so we can be done with her whining. But, as these things go, usually the people that you dislike the most are the ones that never die.

Also look at Clueless. Mind you I guess Elle works as a heroine because although she's kind very appearance and pop culture centered so she looks shallow she's also sweet and kind.
That's true. It also calls to mind Buffy the Vampire Slayer, although I personally thought the writing of her shallowness was done poorly. Joss Whedon did a great job in some aspects of that series, but he can't really write normal people. I love his characterization of the geeks and weirdos, though.
 

S. L. Saboviec

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
585
Reaction score
109
Location
Toronto
Website
www.saboviec.com
Cordelia, in Whedon's Buffy

Missed this on first read-through. :)

Yes, I loved mean Cordelia but thought he did a terrible job making her not-mean Cordelia in Angel. When she was mean, she was hilarious and smart. It didn't matter that she was condescending to all of them. And once in awhile, you got this glimmer of her real self, like a mask slipping down, and you saw that she was mean because she had self-esteem issues. (Don't we all?)

So I take back what I said about Joss not being able to create any normal people. Although Cordelia was certainly at the far end of the spectrum.
 

electroweakstar

Just keep swimming...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
101
Reaction score
9
Location
DC Metro
Website
electroweakstar.wordpress.com
MacKayla in KMM's Fever series was the first character to come to mind at this. She's all pink and manicures and grumpy at having to deal with weird stuff BUT she loved her sister and will do anything to find the person that hurt her. It worked because, while I would roll my eyes at her selfish 21 year old world view, I really felt for her grief and wanted to see how she would handle the struggles ahead.
 

Lil

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
867
Reaction score
155
Location
New York
Susan E Phillips did this in Ain't She Sweet.

Edith Layton did this in a book whose name I have forgotten. The heroine, Annabel, was the "villainess" in a couple of earlier books, a beauty who gets sick and loses her beauty.

Anyway, what you need is a plausible reason for her original misbehavior, preferably more than adolescent stupidity, and the right impetus for her to change, preferably something unselfish.

My suggestion would be to make sure there's some payback for her original misbehavior. I hate when people get off scot free.
 

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
242
Location
New York
Website
www.barbararogan.com
The MC of my upcoming A DANGEROUS FICTION is a real tough cookie, a literary agent no less. She's probably the most flawed MC I've ever created, but she also has traits that I particularly admire: she's brave, resilient, funny and loyal. I can't speak for readers (book comes out in July 2013, so apart from editor and agent there haven't been many yet) but for me, the good qualities were redemptive, while the flaws fed into the plot in essential ways.

If you have an MC who's acting like an idiot in the start of a novel, that's fine; but I think you also have to show her redeeming qualities early, so readers will care.
 

sohalt

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
392
Location
Austria
Website
notsosilentsister.tumblr.com
Could we use this thread to make a list of well-executed versions of this type of character? As I said, I love them, and I could do with some reading/viewing recommendations.

Possible further additions:

Summer in O.C. California.

Maybe Blair of Gossip Girl (although I didn't watch that a lot, so that's just a hunch).

The little sister of MTV's Daria.

Rory Gilmore's bossy and overly ambitious friend in Gilmore Girls (Paris or something).
 

Captcha

Banned
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
637
I like the Cordelia angle! And I like the 'loves her sister' thing, too... if I can show her being a bitch to other people but sweet to her sister, and then have it come out that she's always thought it was her job to protect the little one from the hardness of the world... by being hard herself... maybe this will work!
 

sohalt

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
392
Location
Austria
Website
notsosilentsister.tumblr.com
I like the Cordelia angle! And I like the 'loves her sister' thing, too... if I can show her being a bitch to other people but sweet to her sister, and then have it come out that she's always thought it was her job to protect the little one from the hardness of the world... by being hard herself... maybe this will work!

I think that would be lovely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.