the confessional

angeliz2k

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It occurs to me, as I set about writing my current WIP, that I really don't know much about the Catholic confessional except what I've seen on TV. I was wondering if anyone here could give me a hand.

There IS a forumla, isn't there? It isn't my imagination that, when a person sits down in the confessional they say, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned." Then they say, "It has been __ since my last confessional." And then they describe their sins and the confessor listens. He then gives them pennance.

My major question: would a confessor give advice? If someone came into the confessional, confessed their sin, admitted they were in a bad spot (spiritually and/or temporally), and asked for some advice, would this surprise the confessor? Or would he be used to being asked for advice?

[ If you don't know and if it makes much of a difference, this is late 18th century (still Catholic) France. ]
 

lkp

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If your character is important and/or devout, he might have his own confessor to whom he goes regularly. This person would act as a kind of spiritual advisor as well as grant absolution, so yes, in this situation, your character could plausibly ask for advice. If he is really important, this confessor might live in his own household.
 

cooeedownunder

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Gee I am a Catholic but it has been years since I have been to confession. If someone here can't answer your question directly, I would wander down to the local Catholic Church, and although these days you might need to make a time to speak to the priest, if he can't speak at that moment, he will most certaintly make time to speak to you about this subject.
 

johnnysannie

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First, you do a self-examination to consider your sins, then say an Act of Contrition

(Basically this:
O my God, I am heartily sorry for
having offended you, and I detest
all my sins, because of Your just
punishments, but most of all because
they offend You, my God, who are
all-good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of
Your grace, to sin no more and to
avoid the near occasion of sin)

Then you're ready to confess. Once you are with the priest (in many parishes this is not done in the "traditional" confessional or confession booth but may be done face to face, in his office, sitting in a pew, whatever),
the penitient would make the sign of the Cross and say:

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been (length of time) since my last confession."

Then the priest will normally bless you, you list your sins, you talk about them, he gives you absolution and usually penance. You pray and that's about it.

In late 18th century France, however, it would have be done in either Latin or most likely French.

If you have more questions, PM me - I'm a cradle Catholic and can answer about anything about the Church.
 

History_Chick

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Not so long ago when I went to confession they would say "do 10 hail marys, reflect on your sins, don't do it again."

So sometimes we would talk about what I did and how we could improve my behavior.
 

angeliz2k

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Thanks, everyone! I think I have what I need. If I run across anything that needs more detail, I'll come back. :)

johnnysannie, everything would be in French (none of my characters spoke anything else), but, er, I don't sppeak French, so of necessity it's ALL going to be in English!
 

johnnysannie

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Thanks, everyone! I think I have what I need. If I run across anything that needs more detail, I'll come back. :)

johnnysannie, everything would be in French (none of my characters spoke anything else), but, er, I don't sppeak French, so of necessity it's ALL going to be in English!

If they're Catholic in the 18th century, they will have to know at least Church Latin. Confession could and did happen in the vernacular language but not the Mass, not till modern times - within my own lifetime. So they will have to know enough Latin to follow the Mass and make the responses!
 

angeliz2k

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If they're Catholic in the 18th century, they will have to know at least Church Latin. Confession could and did happen in the vernacular language but not the Mass, not till modern times - within my own lifetime. So they will have to know enough Latin to follow the Mass and make the responses!

I think most people just memorized what they needed to say when. It was mostly the educated people who learned Latin, and of course the clergy. That's why vernacular Bibles and sermons were so revolutionary--"the people" could actually understand the words.
 

johnnysannie

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I think most people just memorized what they needed to say when. It was mostly the educated people who learned Latin, and of course the clergy. That's why vernacular Bibles and sermons were so revolutionary--"the people" could actually understand the words.

As a cradle Catholic who grew up partly with the Latin mass, I disagree. Most people understood the prayers and responses quite well, the Pater Noster, the Mass prayers (the part that was intended for them to hear and respond), and all. Even today, Catholics learn the responses by rote in any language and can still follow the Mass even if it is in another tongue that they don't speak.

It's your work so it's your call but if an editor down the line feels as I do, such a small detail could be the thin line upon which an acceptance or rejection hangs.
 

Belle_91

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I'm a Catholic and it really depends on the Priest on what the pennance will be. Sometimes its just read this from the Bible and other times they'll sit and talk with you, and tell you how to over come your problems. Best advise a priest ever gave me was to just "breathe"-I'm a major worry-wart.

But I'm speaking about modern confessionals, I'm sure that they were much different way back when.
 

71writer

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Yes, my priest is very happy to give advice. When I go to confession it is like sitting down with a friend and having a conversation. But things have changed some in the Catholic Church so it may be different now than in the past.
 

frimble3

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Yes, my priest is very happy to give advice. When I go to confession it is like sitting down with a friend and having a conversation. But things have changed some in the Catholic Church so it may be different now than in the past.
I suspect that the differences are between the men the priests are, rather than the Church, now and then.
 

benbenberi

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With reference to late 18c France -- gotta ask, is this before the Revolution, during, or after? Because the situation of the church & its priests with respect to the community (& the law) would be vastly different depending on exactly when the story is happening.

Other considerations - is the setting urban or rural? Is the priest of the same social class (broadly speaking) as the penitent? Do they have a pre-existing relationship, or are they strangers to each other?

There's a couple of online books that look like they might have information for you:
Church and Society in 18th Century France by John McManners - Volume 1 and Volume 2
 

benbenberi

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Ooops! I didn't even notice the date at the top of the thread.

:gone:
 

Maxx

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Thanks, everyone; just so everyone is aware, this thread is five years old. I put this WIP to bed ages ago. There's no longer even a confessional scene.

Now see! You'd have to say: "Father, I have sinned. It's been 5 years and there still is no confessional scene."
Priest: "Then I'm not in your Novel anymore?"
You: "Nope."
Priest: "where there is no confessional scene, there is no novelistic sin to confess."
You: "You just made that up, right?"
Priest: "Neither you or I is in your novel so maybe somebody else is typing this..."
You: "Scary thought."
 

angeliz2k

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Maxx, I think you've guilted me into putting it back in!

[Honestly, for the main character, I was going for "I feel kindof guilty about my lifestyle and about these sketchy people I'm mixed up with." But it ended up being more fun and more workable if she was just like "Eff it, I'm going to steal from the thieves and not even feel bad about it. Sorry not sorry."]

And, please, if anyone has more to say about confessionals, go for it. Just because I nixed the scene doesn't mean this discussion is useless.
 

Maxx

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Maxx, I think you've guilted me into putting it back in!

[Honestly, for the main character, I was going for "I feel kindof guilty about my lifestyle and about these sketchy people I'm mixed up with." But it ended up being more fun and more workable if she was just like "Eff it, I'm going to steal from the thieves and not even feel bad about it. Sorry not sorry."]

And, please, if anyone has more to say about confessionals, go for it. Just because I nixed the scene doesn't mean this discussion is useless.

It's odd that I've never given any thought to confession. I even went to a Catholic school and I must have gone to confession, but except for the act of prayer in a private chapel I don't remember anything at all about it.

This is despite having an interest in Confessors (eg Lamorini who may have steered the HRE into the worst parts of the 30-years war) and being in the midst of writing novels that need some fine points of Catholic escatology to manage their climaxes.

On a possibly useful side note -- Paris was increasingly Jansenist toward the end of the 18th century. One wonders how that might have changed attitudes to confession.