Shady's Edgy YA (or sex, swearing, drinking, drugs, and violence in YA)

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
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2) The clerk doesn't understand the wide age range of tye YA category. (Heck, I've seen stores that used to shelve YA and children's books together until very recently, so this is possible.)

Two of my bookstores still do.

And I know, Victoria, YA boards are my life.
 

EriRae

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*corrupts youth on a daily basis*

Wait. No I don't. I'm not a teacher any more...*sighs*

Don't listen to bookstore clerks. A nice busy-body clerk tried to tell me that Wicked was a musical, PERIOD.

I was buying Son of A Witch, and she asked why, so I said, "Well, I liked Wicked," and she said, "Oh, me too, I didn't stop singing those songs for days," but I said, "I've never seen it," which earned me this blank stare..."Well, how'd you know you liked it?"

"Um, let me show you the book...see, it's RIGHT HERE ON YOUR SHELF."

If she didn't stock it yesterday, she probably doesn't know it exists.
 

donut

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I have to admit I haven't read through all *7* pages of this thread, but I hope someone will be so kind as to answer my question anyway.

I know there are many YA novels out there dealing with "edgy" topics like drugs. My question is, will the YA market tolerate a book in which drugs aren't demonized? I've sort of stumbled accidentally into writing YA, and the characters in my new novel use drugs, just like the characters in my adult writing. It's a subplot, not the main plot, but while the drug use isn't glamorized, it isn't demonized, either -- basically, it's neutral. (BTW, I'm talking pot, acid, and ecstasy here.)

Is there a conventional approach to this subject in YA? Do YA characters who use drugs necessarily have to OD, or get arrested, stop using, or go to rehab?

In other words, do YA novels have to embrace an explicitly anti-drug message, or is it viable to have my characters simply grow up, go to college, and move on, the way most of us do?

(ps, if there are any neutral or positive representations of drugs in YA novels, I'd love to hear the titles and authors. I only know Go Ask Alice, and that's pretty obviously anti.)
 

vfury

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My book never seems to be able to make up its mind whether it's just fantasy or YA fantasy. I have had some concerns from people who've volunteered to read my final draft, to the point where I want to scream, pull at my hair, or maybe do both at the same time!

The minute I mention it has assassins, or that my MC gets held at knife-point and spends a lot of time running for her life, or that it has references to suicide, poisoning, and *gasp!* people dying, the first thing people say is, "Are you sure this is YA?"

To which I reply, "You've never opened a Melvin Burgess book, have you?"

Admittedly, my book is fantasy, so I can get away with some things I probably couldn't otherwise, and it has a Tim Burton-ish feel, which means my characters frequently don't bat an eyelid at some very odd things (plus, it's based on Alice in Wonderland; I even got the drug references in there!).

So, it's frustrating. Very frustrating. It would probably be easier to change it to normal fantasy (it can go either way; the YA count is around 75,000 words and I've figured out how to develop some things to round it up to 90,000+ words without it seeming like padding), but it annoys me a lot to hear people being dismissive about what does and does not work for YA.

I read enough of it to have a good idea, thanks. Maybe I should just learn better and not ask for anyone else's opinions. >:|
 

Shady Lane

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I have to admit I haven't read through all *7* pages of this thread, but I hope someone will be so kind as to answer my question anyway.

I know there are many YA novels out there dealing with "edgy" topics like drugs. My question is, will the YA market tolerate a book in which drugs aren't demonized? I've sort of stumbled accidentally into writing YA, and the characters in my new novel use drugs, just like the characters in my adult writing. It's a subplot, not the main plot, but while the drug use isn't glamorized, it isn't demonized, either -- basically, it's neutral. (BTW, I'm talking pot, acid, and ecstasy here.)

Is there a conventional approach to this subject in YA? Do YA characters who use drugs necessarily have to OD, or get arrested, stop using, or go to rehab?

In other words, do YA novels have to embrace an explicitly anti-drug message, or is it viable to have my characters simply grow up, go to college, and move on, the way most of us do?

(ps, if there are any neutral or positive representations of drugs in YA novels, I'd love to hear the titles and authors. I only know Go Ask Alice, and that's pretty obviously anti.)

Hmm. Sounds good to me; I'm just trying to think of examples.

Looking for Alaska they smoke/drink a lot with few obvious consequences. I mean, there's Alaska, but the rest of the kids are fine and never really worry about it.

The Perks of Being a Wallflower...he freaks out a little on acid, but he doesn't get in trouble or anything.

Pure Sunshine...no arrests, no rehab.
 

donut

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Ah, yes... PoBaW does have some non-moralising drug use, now that I think of it. Anyone here ever read Youth in Revolt by CD Payne? It's a terrific book, but I gather he had a hard time getting it published because it presented teenagers as living in an essentially amoral universe -- sex and drugs, but without any of the standard repercussions.
 

reenkam

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I have to admit I haven't read through all *7* pages of this thread, but I hope someone will be so kind as to answer my question anyway.

I know there are many YA novels out there dealing with "edgy" topics like drugs. My question is, will the YA market tolerate a book in which drugs aren't demonized? I've sort of stumbled accidentally into writing YA, and the characters in my new novel use drugs, just like the characters in my adult writing. It's a subplot, not the main plot, but while the drug use isn't glamorized, it isn't demonized, either -- basically, it's neutral. (BTW, I'm talking pot, acid, and ecstasy here.)

Is there a conventional approach to this subject in YA? Do YA characters who use drugs necessarily have to OD, or get arrested, stop using, or go to rehab?

In other words, do YA novels have to embrace an explicitly anti-drug message, or is it viable to have my characters simply grow up, go to college, and move on, the way most of us do?

(ps, if there are any neutral or positive representations of drugs in YA novels, I'd love to hear the titles and authors. I only know Go Ask Alice, and that's pretty obviously anti.)

I think it would really depend on the agent, first, and then the editor. I'm sure someone should be able to get such a book out there, but it might take some work.

My first queried work has drug use, and repurcusions, but agents frequently told me that the drugs would make it hard to sell so they didn't want it. I mean, it was even a semi-moral story... *shrugs*

But I say try it and see. I feel like drinking, smoking, and pot would all be semi-fine right now if it didn't involve heavy use. I don't know how they'd feel about the acid and ecstasy, though. But, like I said, try it out.

:)
 

alainn_chaser

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It feels weird but all my ideas lately seem to be highly edgy. I tried to think of a fluffy idea and just couldn't.... My twisted ideas are so much more fun to write.

Of course there is always the chance that my parents will see my ideas and send me to some serious psycho therapy.....
 

Chicken Warrior

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That's always a danger.

I can write really dark books, bizarre books, and I always have tons of profanity, but they're never realistically edgy. A lot of 'edgy' themes seem like slang to me; they make your book perfectly realistic for two years and then less relevant after that. I guess what I'm saying is, a book with a focus on people issues instead of edgy issues is much more universal. And I can't agree with the belief that most teen readers will relate better to books with drugs, sex, alcohal, violence, etc. Half of young readers probably prefer more 'tame' books, and I think all too often these issues are just a way making pretty bland premisses seem somehow new or daring or timely.

I'm not trying to diss anyone here, but I feel we need more books that don't conform to any existing label, instead of trying to even out the genre stats by pumping out as much 'edgy' fiction as fluff.
 

Provrb1810meggy

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And I can't agree with the belief that most teen readers will relate better to books with drugs, sex, alcohal, violence, etc. Half of young readers probably prefer more 'tame' books

I definitely agree with this! Book taste depends on the teenager as an individual, and many teenagers aren't doing drugs, drinking, having sex, being violent, etc. (Ha, despite what the media would like to make us all believe.) Sometimes it's hard to find a tame book without all the sex and the swearing. Sometimes it's hard for teens like I described to find a book that relates to their experiences.

Not that you all shouldn't go on writing your edgy books, of course, but edgy is not a requirement for YA, just as fluffy isn't a requirement for YA.

YA is, uh, YA.

End of story. :)
 

Shady Lane

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^True story. My motto is, if teenagers are doing it, you can write about it. And I've got to say, it does seem like straight edge kids are underrepresented a lot of the times. But teenagers are definitely doing it. So write on, man.
 

Shady Lane

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Before Random Musings. I officially take credit for starting the influx of YA into AW.
 

timewaster

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My book never seems to be able to make up its mind whether it's just fantasy or YA fantasy. I have had some concerns from people who've volunteered to read my final draft, to the point where I want to scream, pull at my hair, or maybe do both at the same time!

The minute I mention it has assassins, or that my MC gets held at knife-point and spends a lot of time running for her life, or that it has references to suicide, poisoning, and *gasp!* people dying, the first thing people say is, "Are you sure this is YA?"

I write YA fantasy and have had seven books published. My books are darkish and have involved torture, violence, lots of killing and sometimes feature a strongish sexual undercurrent, though I don't write about sex explicitly.

I haven't read all this thread but I think two things are important :
1.that it is useful to distinguish between what real teens do and what will be marketed in their name. Less controversial books are likely to sell more because a lot of books bought for teens are not bought by teens. Publishers chase the money.
2. It isn't that any subject is off limits but that the tone has to be a little different from an adult book covering the same subject.Like another poster I read adult books from 10+ .If teens want to read adult books they should/can.
YA is a marketing category to help book buyers select books that cover subjects publishers think will sell to people buying for a teen audience.

Writing YA is writing for that category. It is similar to but not identical to writing for real teens.
It is easy, but not helpful to get the two confused : )As a writer your audience is primarily your agent and the editor to whom he or she will attempt to sell your work. It is also the marketing departments who hope to sell your book to librarians, wholesalers and book clubs.
 

Aegwynn

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Went searching for this thread since Shady mentioned it in another post...

I find it interesting that there is a tendency in adults toward the preservation of "youthful innocence" as long as possible. It is almost as if they lament their transition out of innocence and into experience (there's a little William Blake for you). Sort of like they feel they're being thrown "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

But the reality is that even if teens are not "acting out" in all of the negative and self-destructive ways adults seem to fear, that does not mean that they are exempt from the tempestuous psychological warfare that goes on. I was a "straight-edge" teen with a very dark mind. I really do think that if there is something going on in the teen world - even if it isn't something we would embrace as positive or encouraging - it should be free game to write about.

I didn't have real friends. I had books. And when I was struggling with emotional and mental problems, I'd turn to books to try and find a solution. Not self-help books... but books with a strong protagonist who struggled and got through it. Something with meaning. Something with hope. That doesn't necessarily mean that YA should be didactic - teens can smell didacticism a mile away! - but it does mean that we who write YA ought to do the kids justice and be true to who they really are. And sometimes, that means going through hell and back along the way.

Nice thread. :)
 

mirrorkisses

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I have said my part enough on this topic (in other forums, or maybe here, I'm not sure), but to be honest, I do worry about what people are going to think about my novel.
I'm not worried about cursing, but I worry about scaring agents off with the first scene, which is quite humorous, but questionable.

My reason for writing YA was because when I was a teenager, bubblegum was basically all there really was. You had your SE Hinton (although I wasn't reading that), your Judy Blume (I am one of the few who doesn't care for her, though I see her significance), but there wasn't much else. I was reading Alice Hoffman--Property Of, which has a lot of sex, drugs, and gang violence in it, White Horses, which is about an incestuous relationship, etc, etc.

This is what I was reading when I was a teen. It didn't affect me adversely at all. When I was a teen I thought it was pretty sad that I had to go to adult books to get something good to read. That was when I was I decided to be a YA writer.
 

mirrorkisses

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Do we have a list of agents anywhere who like edgy YA?

BTW: I DID IT!!! I got my ms under 100k!!!

A good way to do is look for agents who have published edgy books.

Caren Johnson is the agent of Stephanie Kuehnert, who wrote I Wanna be Your Joey Ramone.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1416562699/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
http://cjla.squarespace.com/welcome/

If I have more in my "agents file" I'll post them, but I'm not sure that they're all "edgy YA," because I tend to file agents that have been interested in music/pop culture fiction.
Oh I noticed in my file I also noted agents who are "not bothered by strong language!" Ha! I think of everything!
 
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bethany

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IceCreamEmpress

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Here's another from my file....
Jodi Reamer, Esq. (that esquire means he's male, so do not confuse that!!)

"Esq." means that someone is an attorney, not that they're male. Ms. Reamer is a female attorney.
 

bethany

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Just to get back on the subject of edgy YA, I recently found this blog from 2006. Yeah, google myself much? I wonder if I will be seeing more of such sentiments as we approach Handcuffs release date?

http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2006/11/13/daily-deals/

and I'm not saying I blame the reviewer, though I hope people won't judge without reading :D.
 

Shady Lane

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**now googling self**

**finding unexpected book reviews**

**happy**