Sex in YA

And, again, this isn't just something I made up. I was informed of this last year by an editor on my own sex scenes. She said "In YA, always mention a condom."

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I don't doubt that your editor said this, but I'd have a hard time taking her rule seriously. There are so many YA books out there that don't mention condoms. In fact when I do see them, I feel like the writer was forced to put it in or felt like they had a moral obligation to do so. I'd be interested to see a poll of editors who agreed with him/her.

Blind Writer said:

But, Shady, didn't you say the brother says "That was stupid"? I feel like that's enough. Just ONE PERSON saying "You didn't, that was dumb" counts for accountability Even if no one gets pregnant or catches an STD. I still consider that being accountable.

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Agreed...with that one comment you've set up a world in which sex with all its consequences exists, just like it does in the real world. No one wants to be forced to mention things as a moral mandate, but to not mention protection strikes me as not being emotionally authentic. Using something or not using something is a part of the physical/emotional act. Why would it be glossed over? Just to make the sex hotter? Then the sex isn't being written well and it isn't realistic.

true, true, but Noah mentioned it because it was something Noah would ask--Noah is the one who never drives over the speed limit--not because I felt a duty as YA author or something like that. In some cases it's absolutely authentic to mention them. But if you're writing about, say, heroin addicts in the London underbelly, the guys aren't going to ask each other after, "dude did you use a condom?"

adktd2bks said:

I don't doubt that your editor said this, but I'd have a hard time taking her rule seriously. There are so many YA books out there that don't mention condoms. In fact when I do see them, I feel like the writer was forced to put it in or felt like they had a moral obligation to do so. I'd be interested to see a poll of editors who agreed with him/her.

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I can actually think of many more books I've read that condom mentions DON'T sound forced than do. Is it sometimes awkward? Of course. Condoms can be awkward, that's just the reality of it.

If you'll notice, Hannah's scene there actually DOES have some accountability (brother is clearly not amused at him not using a condom, + coming during foreplay--poor boy! lol) so...it's in keeping with what Kody said.

eta: Hannah that's 100% true, but your heroin addict is probably going to experience some consequences, no? Whether through sex or something else.

Yeah, it's not a good time to be poor Chasey.

Plus the girl in question is Noah's girlfriend.

kaitlin008 said:

I can actually think of many more books I've read that condom mentions DON'T sound forced than do. Is it sometimes awkward? Of course. Condoms can be awkward, that's just the reality of it.

If you'll notice, Hannah's scene there actually DOES have some accountability (brother is clearly not amused at him not using a condom, + coming during foreplay--poor boy! lol) so...it's in keeping with what Kody said.

eta: Hannah that's 100% true, but your heroin addict is probably going to experience some consequences, no? Whether through sex or something else.

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well...yeah, but probably heroin-related ones. which he would have even if he used a condom. haha, i don't know. i just don't think it's a requirement. say it if your characters would say it, don't say it if they wouldn't. a guy who fucks a girl he never plans to see again who doesn't respect women very much prolly isn't going to worry about condoms. and if the story isn't about him getting a chick pregnant and dealing with that, then probably nothing will come of it. you know? no one's going to throw in a pregnancy in a a book that doesn't need one just to show the hazards of sex w/o condom.

if the characters would mention it, mention it, and if the characters wouldn't mention it, don't mention it, and if the possible consequences of unprotected sex aren't a part of your story, don't put them in to teach a lesson. i dunno, it's making sense to me, haha.

Shady Lane said:

true, true, but Noah mentioned it because it was something Noah would ask--Noah is the one who never drives over the speed limit--not because I felt a duty as YA author or something like that. In some cases it's absolutely authentic to mention them. But if you're writing about, say, heroin addicts in the London underbelly, the guys aren't going to ask each other after, "dude did you use a condom?"

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Ha, no...but I imagine they would still be living in a realistic world in which their neglect would have consequences. If the London junkies are having sex all the time and there's never any mention of disease or pregnancy, I'd have a hard time buying the story. Same thing if it was mentioned that someone shoots up every day, but there's no indication that it has an effect on their daily functioning: it wouldn't be believable (though it's within the realm of possibility).

However, I think there are two issues at hand: realism and this idea of having a moral duty to present things in a certain way because of the YA audience. These are different discussions.

kaitiepaige17 said:

I'm all for the realism. Not so much the moral aspect. I don't write to teach preteens and teens about sex. That's their parents' job. Realistically? Having unprotected sex one time won't always result in pregnancy or an STD. Should accountability be mentioned? Perhaps. It just depends on your characters.

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Ding ding ding and we have a winner.

Mayfield said:

Ha, no...but I imagine they would still be living in a realistic world in which their neglect would have consequences. If the London junkies are having sex all the time and there's never any mention of disease or pregnancy, I'd have a hard time buying the story. Same thing if it was mentioned that someone shoots up every day, but there's no indication that it has an effect on their daily functioning: it wouldn't be believable (though it's within the realm of possibility).

However, I think there are two issues at hand: realism and this idea of having a moral duty to present things in a certain way because of the YA audience. These are different discussions.

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Yes. Sure you can slip by without consequences, but eventually, it gets pretty unrealistic for someone to keep having unprotected sex and never get pregnant/get someone pregnant/get an STD.

imo, whatever choice you ultimately make in your writing, it's at least something you should think about and be aware of.

Well, yeah, if they keep doing it and no one starts to bear fruit, that's not realistic. but the large majority of teenagers, I think, aren't fucking like bunnies. they grab it where they can.

anyway. it comes down to realism and not moralizing, so we're on the same page.

my goal for this thread has become to use as many euphemisms for sex and pregnancy as possible.

There are always exceptions to every rule, and few "rules of YA" are really rules. Kody's editor wanted the condom mentioned, my editor wanted some remorse after the sex. I worked that in by having her feel bad about the timing , rather than the sex, cause I didn't want to moralize.

I had very obvious condom references in Handcuffs, but I wasn't really thinking about being responsible, it just worked for the scene.

I wholly agree with Shady that the sexual tension is WAY more interesting than the sex. I faded to black in Handcuffs because there wasn't anything more to say about it. It didn't advance the character development to know what position they were in.

Hahaha, one of the few details I mention is that the chick is on top, because it shows her dominance or whatever.

kaitiepaige17 said:

Don't be silly, wrap your willy.

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kaitlin008 said:

Yes. Sure you can slip by without consequences, but eventually, it gets pretty unrealistic for someone to keep having unprotected sex and never get pregnant/get someone pregnant/get an STD.

imo, whatever choice you ultimately make in your writing, it's at least something you should think about and be aware of.

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But...maybe the condom just isn't mentioned. Like the seatbelts aren't mentioned. And yeah, if you have enough unprotected sex you will eventually get pregnant unless something is wrong with one of you, but if you're with the same partner, probably not going to get an STD, if both of you are clean (ETA not sure why I used this word- probably because my WIP deals with diseases) and haven't been around much.

Shady Lane said:

Hahaha, one of the few details I mention is that the chick is on top, because it shows her dominance or whatever.

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Well, we already knew who was dominant in HC, and it wasn't changing in that scene...so!

Dude, NO spooning and NO emotional connection. This girl disgusts him completely. He's sharing her with his brother and neither of them likes her.

Oh, yeah, bethany totally mentions the point I kind of brought up and then totally forgot, about how just because they don't mention the condom doesn't mean there's no condom. I never mention them again as the book goes on, maybe they do maybe they don't.

bethany said:

Well, we already knew who was dominant in HC, and it wasn't changing in that scene...so!

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lol true!

Shady Lane said:

dude, I know. they had to amp up her tits so that you could tell them apart from the ass...it was kind of hard to tell if she was lying on her back or her stomach in the first version. i liked her better with smaller boobies, 'cause she looked more like me but she's still hot.

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OMG. haha...in the first version I totally thought she was on her stomach, but had a weirdly shaped ass. I see it now.

downtherabbithole said:

OMG. haha...in the first version I totally thought she was on her stomach, but had a weirdly shaped ass. I see it now.

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haha omg really? i thought they fixed it. and the old one isn't public so unless you are a L33T HACKSAUR you wouldn't have seen it, haha. oh nooooo. ah well. maybe she has a weirdly shaped ass. YOU DON'T KNOW HER LIFE.