Old People Writing for Teens, IV

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Sage

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Cheering you all on!
Complexity, language, and word count. It really is a thin line sometimes though. I went to my library and took out a ton of books that I knew were one or the other, but had to guess which one.

If you go to the Writing For Kids forum, there's a thread on RenLearn with a link to the site. It's for teachers to find quizzes for books, but it has a huge collection of book info and it includes word counts and target grades for different books. You can kinda figure it out from those two things. Word count is huge, but I definitely decided some shorter books were low MG after reading them.

Roald Dahl and Beverly Cleary books are low MG, but I thought they would be CBs before I read them. I could see the difference between Beezus and Ramona (LMG) vs. Clementine (CB), though, even moreso after I typed out each one's first chapter.
 

Sage

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I do encourage you to read for the age group and figure out which age you want to write for. The thing is that it really is easy to have it read low MG but be CB length, or vice versa. Even after my research into chapter books, betas pointed out lines where I was too complicated (LMG level) or too simple (ER level). It is hard to stick to the right voice for the age group, and that's really going to be true if you haven't been reading that age group or don't know which you're writing for. I totally support you writing chapter books or low MG. Trouble came out of a YA novel that I realized worked better as kidlit. And chapter books can be a lot of fun to write. But they're not easy just because they're fun.

I read someone the other day saying that it's hard to accidentally write a YA. I think it's much harder to accidentally write for a specific kidlit age group. You have to go in, armed to write for that group.
 

lisalulu09

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I know it's not easy.

CCW is currently a short story and I know already it's going to be hard to a) make it longer and b) figure out where the chapter breaks should be.
 

mellymel

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parump! that's awesome. Congrats. have some wine and chocolate (wait, you don't drink, right? was that you? someone here doesn't drink)
 

parumpdragon

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Thanks guys - yeah, I already had some chocolate. And no wine for me. ;)
 

Stuck In Kansas

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Well, goldang, ladies, I leave for a couple 'a days and it seems the whole world's gotten crazier since we last chatted.

That movie shooting tragedy? No words.

Who was it? SarahDalton, I believe? Asking if she was too old or young--whatever--to join the group? Sarah! I'm still looking for the "geriatric ward writing for teenagers" group.

FM: Don't be saddened at writing the last paragraphs of your book! Me? Everytime I finish a manuscript (crappy as it may be), I sit back, sigh reflectively and would smoke if I did.

And I've had it up to HERE with all you ladies with your word-length envy! I've said it before (maybe I haven't), but SIZE DOESN'T MATTER. I've been hearing more from experienced authors that what sells these days (particularly in the e-publishing industry) are shorter works. I've six books completed, all rambling around 100,000 words each. Any book I write from now on? 60,000 words is my goal. I ain't nothing if I ain't not wordy (I DEFY anyone to try and decipher that sentence--chart if you must, but even I'm not convinced it puts my point across).

I reiterate: SIZE DOESN'T MATTER! It's how you use it. (Ahem).
 

justbishop

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Only you people with big books say that. Just try finding publishers willing to look at my piddly little [non-romance] 21k words :p

And everyone talking about printing their WIPs out is making me want to do the same!
 

Stuck In Kansas

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Here's the deal, Bishop. Growing up on Stephen King, I thought, you know, the guy takes 150 pages to get anything done. Yet, he's a best-selling author. He's GOTTA' be doing something right...he's GOTTA' know how to build suspense. Well, yeah, maybe. But we don't have that luxury. These days, you need to grab the reader within the first three pages. I know, it sucks. But that's the marketability factor. It saddens me, but I'm having to sacrifice mucho characterization and "mood-setting" to meet today's short attention spanned readers. The epic length sagas of the past are becoming extinct.

Anyway, Bishop, you've got the drive of a writer. Your passion's obvious--actually, I think everyone here's got the "eye of the tiger (and now I have that HORRIBLE song stuck in my head)." Don't "belittle" your 21,000 words. (And when Muse-It-Up opens back up--assuming you're not already picked up--submit! They go for shorter lengths.). You wrote and completed something, girl! You're a friggin' writer!
 

Stuck In Kansas

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De nada, Bishop.

I'm only now comfortable calling myself a writer. Before, I considered myself a "dabbler." But I took that giant leap. I AM a writer. Not a very good writer, granted. But. Baby steps. I'm shooting for the stars. I'm dreaming of someday becoming an adequate writer!

Dang it! I think this entire diatribe was brought on by my fragile male ego insecurities regarding "word length!"
 

JKRowley

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De nada, Bishop.


Dang it! I think this entire diatribe was brought on by my fragile male ego insecurities regarding "word length!"

OMG, Kansas. That one made me laugh. Hope that doesn't make you feel more insecure.

My kid purposely looks for short books. He won't read Harry Potter because it is too much of a commitment. Do not discount the short, especially for e-reads.

I haven't done any writing today, but I did make up with my sister after a fight that lasted a few weeks. :end drama
 

Stuck In Kansas

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Hooray JK! Any time family drama can be put aside is cause for celebration.

My family's so disfunctional, I long for the loving touch of Norman Bate's mother.
 

JKRowley

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Scratch that thought of no editing/writing. I went into my WIP after reading critique notes, and made only superficial changes.

I hope I find more changes later, otherwise, could it be done and ready to query? I tend to get caught into tweaking and not wanting to let things go.

I had only one or two rewrites on this one, but had a clear outline (after throwing away a notebook of notes on a completely different story). That seems like too few passes. Maybe I am getting better (or becoming adequate). LOL.
 

parumpdragon

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And I've had it up to HERE with all you ladies with your word-length envy! ... SIZE DOESN'T MATTER. I've been hearing more from experienced authors that what sells these days (particularly in the e-publishing industry) are shorter works. I've six books completed, all rambling around 100,000 words each. Any book I write from now on? 60,000 words is my goal. ...

Only you people with big books say that. Just try finding publishers willing to look at my piddly little [non-romance] 21k words :p

Hi guys - Kansas, you are right! I couldn't get the 100k MS accepted, but the 57k MS and 52k one are... so yeah. Length is not everything! :roll:

justbishop is right too though, too short and it also gets rejected. Must be a sweet spot or something. A middle ground. ;)
 

justbishop

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Ooh, I didn't realize Kindle Singles was less of a self-publishing outfit and more of a traditional ebook publisher. I will have to look into that :)

And yeah, I do think that it's a sweet spot type situation, where pieces of about 50-80k are in that "just right" zone. Maybe I'll have something worthy of that many words one day!

Dory, I'm excited to see your cover, too!
 
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