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How can I write from a woman's POV?

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KTC

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For real. I don't have to read the book to know that I hate your main character, OP. Probably wouldn't be a big fan of you if I met you, either.

Careful. That's personal... attack, even.
 

Marian Perera

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If I read a book where a woman's husband called her a "cheating whore" and a "bitch" as he threatened to shoot her and put her in terror of her life, and if she later had make-up sex with him, I would never pick up another of that author's books.

For me to feel anything but disgust for the husband, there would have to be a ton of evidence framing her for adultery and espionage and treason and jaywalking. And even then, if the first thing he does after discovering such evidence is to insult her and try to (or pretend to) shoot her, he's not redeemable for me. I am really not a fan of men who fly into blind rages and women who enable these.
 

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As long as you're only using it as a description of the way the character is talking. "(Character) is a cheating whore" out of the author's mouth is not really talk I'm down with. Misogynistic even if she did cheat.
 

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If my husband ever called me a whore or a bitch he would be in SO MUCH TROUBLE. Also, in the scenario described, I would probably laugh and tell him to stop mucking about. Then take the gun off him and play with it myself.
 

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can I just say, in my best Renee Zelweger voice, "You had me at 'cheating whore'"?


what would a woman do? You have to understand women aren't a uniform group--some take midol and some prefer aleve when they cramp, for example, and some like to spend their husband's money on shoes, while others prefer massages.....

look, there's lots of issues below, and we'll go through them, but the trick to writing women is to either never, ever write about a premenstrual woman, because they're crazy as shit, or alternately, to write anything you want about women on the rag. Anything. Because they're not even rational, thinking animals at that point, just mindless, angry, ice cream-eating blood-wenches.

ok, sarcasm aside, a few thoughts before we start:

1. you're very young, very single, or very trolling, or possibly a combination of those three.

2. I know more than a few women who have cheated. You can break them into two camps: A) those who cheat for the same reasons men do, like adventure, selfishness, grass-is-greener, living alone in a two-person relationship where the other is largely unavailable, etc. and B) women who marry a guy who believes all women are incapable and unexplainable waifs, and after two years, or twenty, they give up trying to change that guy. Which isn't all that different from men who marry women who assume they're mouth-breathing dickbrains, and then cheat.


the bottom line is women aren't radically different from men.




How can I write from a woman's POV and I'm not a woman.

I know you can build a character and have a character respond to how said character should respond but there are things that no matter how well a character is built and they respond within their perimeters it's still unbelievable.

For instance I have a young wife married to a man for five years. Her husband is the cautious type, not a party person like she is*i.e friend's birthday party: he's at home while she's there or Holiday events and friends and family*,he's kind of a nerd and avoids confrontations at all costs. While he does avoid confrontations he is quite capable at defending himself and her if need be something he proved once when someone tried to mug them. He also stays in shape so isn't a fat slob. It's his kindness and warmth that draws her in to him she feels safe around him.right off, I'm not sure about some of your premises. He could be fat and not a slob, for example, and his kindness is one thing, except you paint him as an aloof dick in the line just before. These things make me feel as though you're working from a situation, and trying to stitch together Frankencharacters where the parts don't all match. THAT is going to hang you long before forgetting to mention tampons is

Well at the end of the story her husband confronts her, clad in blood covered and bullet riddled combat armor her husband, presents her with evidence of what he thinks proves her infidelity and acts of treason against their government. if you have no breadcrumbs along the way or anything to hint at this, you're gonna have a bit of a plausibility issue if suddenly supernerd shows up looking like he auditioned for The Expendables, and where will this evidence of cheating and treason come from?Not only is she a cheating whore she's a spy that used him to get top secret access codes from a black ops division she never knew existed. clearly nobody knows....that said, if you are of the opinion folks only cheat when they are "cheating whores" I suspect you're going to have trouble writing your "whores" convincingly

While trying to make sense of all of this she soon finds her self staring down the barrel of a weapon and hearing the words "Goodbye bitch" come out her husband's mouth. Then the faint click of the weapons mechanisms moving to eject a round that isn't there.big, BIG problem here. She'll hear the sear trip, or pin and/or hammer fall, but no, she won't hear the eject. Because if he has a semiauto or automatic weapon, the eject is tied to the cartridge going off. No flying boolet, no ejection mechanism tripped. And if he was holding a pump shotgun, he'd rack the slide to drop a round INTO the chamber if it wasn't already, but not as part of pulling the trigger; that would be silly at best

Thankfully for her the situation get's sorted out. er....I am old-fashioned. Which means for me, if someone tries to shoot me, which your paragraph above suggests, stuff does NOT "get sorted out." There are some breaches of trust I find hard to close, and a "sorry, this was quite the mixup, huh?" isn't going to plausibly cover my near-murder

Would it be realistic for her to beat the hell out of him? yes, perhaps the most realistic of anything I've seen thus far, sadly. That sounds harsh perhaps, but you maybe need to think through how plausible some of your stuff is. Get a divorce? yesSpend some time getting things hashed out? possibly, but what are you gonna hash out? "Honey, do you really, REALLY promise to never try to shoot me in the face again?" Have make up sex? wow...in what fucking world? No wonder so many women revile the male idea of makeup sex, it seems to be "I fucked up, royally....wanna touch my penis to make up for it?"What would a woman do in this situation if she loved a man who thought what he thought (and had evidence that drove him to those conclusions). What would women like to read in this portion?


what she'd decide will depend on the woman, they aren't a monolith.
 
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AndreF

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If I read a book where a woman's husband called her a "cheating whore" and a "bitch" as he threatened to shoot her and put her in terror of her life, and if she later had make-up sex with him, I would never pick up another of that author's books.

For me to feel anything but disgust for the husband, there would have to be a ton of evidence framing her for adultery and espionage and treason and jaywalking. And even then, if the first thing he does after discovering such evidence is to insult her and try to (or pretend to) shoot her, he's not redeemable for me. I am really not a fan of men who fly into blind rages and women who enable these.


Oh yeah there is a lot of evidence a lot. Most of you forget that this takes place at the END of the story. He his confronting her at the end of a long adventure in which he has escaped the jaws of death many times (hence blood covered bullet riddled armor. He's been shot at he's been hit. (the reason he avoids conflicts by the way) His friends (other main characters) even get killed along the way all because of this woman that he learns used him. He thinks she betrayed him, used him, and tried to kill him.

I think that at this point man or woman both would want her to die. She's very evil. Or it seems.

In fact she is not. Remember someone comes to her aide. That someone explains the situation to both she and her husband (after he tries to kill her) (I'm not telling you what happened but it will be logical).

So many of you said write true to your character and a few you understood that even though I write true my character would it be true to women. That's why I ask these things. I can write all day long what is true to my character but if my character isn't true to women and those that character is based on then it won't mean a thing.

But I say again this scene happens at the END the END of the story not the beginning, not the middle, the freaking end, as in the last five paragraphs.

The husband has traveled thousands upon thousands of miles and throughout the story everything he learns about his wife shatters him and twists him and in the end he wants revenge. So there is TONS of evidence had it not been for this other person she would be dead and in an unmarked grave and the husband would've been given a medal for his service for uncovering such a deadly plot and saving countless millions.


This story in short is kind of a Twist on a favorite movie of mine (though its a comedy) called Nothing to Loose. A man sees his wife's sister screwing her boyfriend and when he leaves the house he see's his bosses cufflinks. So he thinks the woman (who had her back to him) is his wife screwing his boss in their bed and he goes on a nice adventure to get revenge but in the end it just mistaken his wife for her sister ... so this story is done in the spirit of that movie just more bullets, blood, and death.



And I see that women are completely against the wife reuniting with her husband. So I'll have her cuss him out, cry, and then file for a divorce... after she demands that her name get's cleared from every criminal database.
 
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Buffysquirrel

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So many of you said write true to your character and a few you understood that even though I write true my character would it be true to women. That's why I ask these things. I can write all day long what is true to my character but if isn't true to women and those that character is based on then it won't mean a thing.

If you've written your character as a human being there's no reason why she shouldn't be true to at least some women. Do you expect your male protag to be true to all men?
 

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So many of you said write true to your character and a few you understood that even though I write true my character would it be true to women. That's why I ask these things. I can write all day long what is true to my character but if isn't true to women and those that character is based on then it won't mean a thing.

Andre, the one thing everyone has said is that there's no "true to women". We aren't all of one mind. We are all individuals.

*Insert obligatory Life of Brian reference*
 
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Marian Perera

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Oh yeah there is a lot of evidence a lot. You forget that this takes place at the END of the story.

It's not a question of forgetting. It's because I didn't know what else happened in your story - the middle could have focused on other plot points, for instance.

I think that at this point man or woman both would want her to die.

I might not, depending on how the evidence was presented. Perhaps I am not man or woman.

But I say again this scene happens at the END the END of the story not the begging, not the middle, the freaking, as in the last five paragraphs.
If all this happens in the last five paragraphs, why did you ask whether it would be realistic for her to talk it over or have make-up sex with him? Surely there wouldn't be room in the last paragraph or last line for anything more than a brief mention of what she did in response.

As for the rest of the events you described, I wouldn't want to read about these two staying together for any length of time if the husband has now become "twisted" to the point where he tries to murder his wife (and where the wife can't even save herself, but must wait for someone else to do so).
 
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AndreF

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can I just say, in my best Renee Zelweger voice, "You had me at 'cheating whore'"?


what would a woman do? You have to understand women aren't a uniform group--some take midol and some prefer aleve when they cramp, for example, and some like to spend their husband's money on shoes, while others prefer massages.....

look, there's lots of issues below, and we'll go through them, but the trick to writing women is to either never, ever write about a premenstrual woman, because they're crazy as shit, or alternately, to write anything you want about women on the rag. Anything. Because they're not even rational, thinking animals at that point, just mindless, angry, ice cream-eating blood-wenches.

ok, sarcasm aside, a few thoughts before we start:

1. you're very young, very single, or very trolling, or possibly a combination of those three.

2. I know more than a few women who have cheated. You can break them into two camps: A) those who cheat for the same reasons men do, like adventure, selfishness, grass-is-greener, living alone in a two-person relationship where the other is largely unavailable, etc. and B) women who marry a guy who believes all women are incapable and unexplainable waifs, and after two years, or twenty, they give up trying to change that guy. Which isn't all that different from men who marry women who assume they're mouth-breathing dickbrains, and then cheat.


the bottom line is women aren't radically different from men.







what she'd decide will depend on the woman, they aren't a monolith.


Thank you for the advice. We double posted so I haven't time to read this while I posting.
 

AndreF

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As for the rest of the events you described, I wouldn't want to read about these two staying together for any length of time if the husband has now become "twisted" to the point where he tries to murder his wife (and where the wife can't even save herself, but must wait for someone else to do so).
Well I planned to have all that done at once. The moment he confronted her to get revenge was the moment that someone else he knew and trusted came in stopped everything.

Would it be realistic for her to beat the hell out of him? yes, perhaps the most realistic of anything I've seen thus far, sadly. That sounds harsh perhaps, but you maybe need to think through how plausible some of your stuff is. Get a divorce? yesSpend some time getting things hashed out? possibly, but what are you gonna hash out? "Honey, do you really, REALLY promise to never try to shoot me in the face again?" Have make up sex? wow...in what fucking world? No wonder so many women revile the male idea of makeup sex, it seems to be "I fucked up, royally....wanna touch my penis to make up for it?"What would a woman do in this situation if she loved a man who thought what he thought (and had evidence that drove him to those conclusions). What would women like to read in this portion?
What if he didn't try to kill her? But cuffed her placed her on a transport and personally delivered her to an intelligence detention center and when they get off some intelligence agent who did a lot of homework can clear things up? Even though the evidence is damning she (his wife) isn't the one behind it. The only thing that happens to the wife is that she gets cuffed, confronted with mountains of evidence, and brought to an intelligence center?

At this point in the story there is no question that something is up. There is a hint that maybe the wife isn't behind it. But then there are things that will take those doubts away. In the end the only mistake the husband made was thinking she was a part of it but it had it not been for that mistake a lot of people would've been dead.

I didn't want to tell people this but because you know about guns (it was an energy weapon. The someone that came her recuse employed a dampening field that killed the weapon which is why the mechanics could be heard slamming home but no projectile came out)
 
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WriteMinded

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All women are different. Your female character would remain true to character and I don't know what that is.

Keep in mind, love does not conquer all. Love can be killed, and IMO, the situation you describe is a killer. Myself, I'd pull out my own gun and shoot the guy in the foot. And I'd for sure be finding my happily-ever-after with someone else.
 

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Who is this someone who comes to the rescue? Were they in the book previously? I can't help thinking it would be better if the wife either convinced her husband she's innocent or somehow got away from him. Otherwise it feels very deus ex machina, and the wife's just a mcguffin.

ETA: Why not try writing the scene from the wife's POV? Not necessarily as the final version, but just so you can get into her character and become more aware of how she might react.
 
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magicalwhatever

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I skimmed through the posts so forgive me if I'm being repetitive, but I think the best way to write the opposite gender would be to develop her like you'd normally develop a male MC. If you aren't sure how she'd respond, think of her defining traits. Is she soft spoken or would she make a remark if you said something she didn't like? Is she ambitious? Lazy? What are her hobbies? Did she grow up with three brothers or was she an only child spoiled by her parents? And so on. Once you understand her, this barrier you've been facing will be easy to climb over with your ladder of character development.
 

Marian Perera

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Well I planned to have all that done at once. The moment he confronted her to get revenge was the moment that someone else he knew and trusted came in stopped everything.

But that doesn't change my point. He's twisted to the point where he's ready to murder someone and she seems helpless to the point where someone else has to save her. I wouldn't want to read about these two either talking it over or kissing and making up (even if it's within character for this woman to have sex with a man who was ready to kill her).

What if he didn't try to kill her? But cuffed her placed her on a transport and personally delivered her to intelligence detention center and when they get off some intelligence agent who did a lot of homework can clear things up? The only thing that happens to the wife is that she gets cuffed, confronted with mountains of evidence, and brought to an intelligence center?

Makes me wonder why he didn't go to that intelligence agent in the first place, with all the tons of evidence.

That's the thing. If it's something that can be cleared up quickly, then the husband doesn't look good for not taking this route in the first place. It can also make the intelligence agent look like a deus ex machina. On the other hand, if it's something that takes a great deal of time to resolve, then it prolongs the story (in possibly an anti-climactic way) and may shift the focus from the husband and wife to the intelligence agent.

Then again, almost anything can work if it's written well, so hopefully that's the case here.
 

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I don't think it would unrealistic for things to be worked out. You're saying he was acting on supposedly good information and about some pretty cold-blooded actions, and for me, it's perfectly reasonable for a woman to look at that once the initial anger/fear/whatever emotion is gone, and not only understand what happened, but be willing to try to get past it. As long as it didn't happen immediately and/or easily (as in 'make up sex'), it wouldn't bother me. One of my personal pet peeves with to many female characters on TV is that they react emotionally at first (perfectly understandable) but then refuse to change their mindset when the facts are presented. That, IMHO, is just as sexist. It basically says women in general cannot tone down the emotions enough to act rationally.
 

AndreF

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But that doesn't change my point. He's twisted to the point where he's ready to murder someone and she seems helpless to the point where someone else has to save her. I wouldn't want to read about these two either talking it over or kissing and making up (even if it's within character for this woman to have sex with a man who was ready to kill her).



Makes me wonder why he didn't go to that intelligence agent in the first place, with all the tons of evidence.

That's the thing. If it's something that can be cleared up quickly, then the husband doesn't look good for not taking this route in the first place. It can also make the intelligence agent look like a deus ex machina. On the other hand, if it's something that takes a great deal of time to resolve, then it prolongs the story (in possibly an anti-climactic way) and may shift the focus from the husband and wife to the intelligence agent.

Then again, almost anything can work if it's written well, so hopefully that's the case here.


I see what you're saying. I was looking at again this morning and thought meh. If my character at one time was ready to lay down his life for this woman it would need to take a lot more than what I have (even though if were someone else other than this wife.)

I certainly understand your point about it quickly being resolved and I meant by that was the agent doesn't hit a few buttons and go "see you're wrong" but instead shows up with a mountain of data and .....







light bulb.









Uh... lemmie get back to ya'll.



But let me ask you this. Forgetting everything I wrote. What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?
 

AndreF

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I don't think it would unrealistic for things to be worked out. You're saying he was acting on supposedly good information and about some pretty cold-blooded actions, and for me, it's perfectly reasonable for a woman to look at that once the initial anger/fear/whatever emotion is gone, and not only understand what happened, but be willing to try to get past it. As long as it didn't happen immediately and/or easily (as in 'make up sex'), it wouldn't bother me. One of my personal pet peeves with to many female characters on TV is that they react emotionally at first (perfectly understandable) but then refuse to change their mindset when the facts are presented. That, IMHO, is just as sexist. It basically says women in general cannot tone down the emotions enough to act rationally.


Good info to know. Yeah I didn't make that clear how make up sex after time could happen. Yeah that I was thinking about is that these things happened months afterwards.

I took time building the case against her and it will take time for things to settle but I just had a light bulb moment.
 

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But let me ask you this. Forgetting everything I wrote. What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?

In my role as the Representative of All Women, I'd divorce him because he sounds like a bit of a dimwit to me.

hth
 

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the energy field thing is still flawed:

An AR, most handguns, etc. either use the rearward energy (kick) that accompanies a bullet's forward energy (that equal and opposite bit from physics) to move the bolt mechanism, or use excess gas from the ignition to do the same basic thing. If the energy field somehow killed the bullet's travel, unless it stopped it mid-barrel (and how? lead is non-magnetic) the energy dissipation would cut both ways: no booolettttt and no ejection mechanism.
 

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I am a late middle-aged woman and I write (and sell) stories written first person as a teenaged boy. And I am not a boy, nope. Never been one. Have been a teenager, but not since the early 1970's, so...

I never once have thought how do I write from a male-man-boy POV. I just write, create the character and tada, there he is. He reacts as he reacts and I've actually had two 'fans' who disputed the fact that I was female. (Nice letters, nothing really bad, and I no longer reply to emails or letters anymore, but years ago I did.)

Okay he and me, we've a few differences. He urinates standing; I don't. (Okay, not unless I'm in a real big hurry. :D JK) I think he basically has parts of my personality, my late cousin's (a male), my father and my grandfather. He's got some of my highly ethical and quiet grandmother thrown in, too.

So your character? What would SHE do? You know her better than we do. Stick yourself in her position and imagine yourself as her. As a person, not as male-female or neuter-being. What would SHE do in the way YOU wrote her?
 
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AndreF

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In my role as the Representative of All Women, I'd divorce him because he sounds like a bit of a dimwit to me.

hth

Noted. So there will still be a divorce. Glad I asked a woman.

It appears that I've written a character with no redeemable qualities.... or one that should be single.
 

quicklime

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But let me ask you this. Forgetting everything I wrote. What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?

as helix mentioned, again, it depends on the woman.

what would you do, as a dude, in the reverse situation? OK, so would your brother, your Pastor, that jackass down the street, and your dad all do the exact same thing? Probably not, yet you're all men. So why would you assume women would?
 

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But let me ask you this. Forgetting everything I wrote. What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?

To chime in with what many others have been trying to explain, women are not a monolith. The way your question is phrased, you're asking "what would 51% of the population of the world do in this situation?"

Some women would kick him in the balls. Some women would have already moved out and filed for divorce. Some women would have called the police. Some women would take him back based solely on an apology, and some other women would be pissed off that those women had done so considering that he'd tried to kill her. That's because every single woman on this planet is an individual, autonomous human being with their own thoughts, dreams, and fears, and their own unique life experiences that inform those.

The question that you should be asking is what would this particular woman do in this situation. And the answer to that question depends on the way you've written that character.
 

Marian Perera

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I see what you're saying. I was looking at again this morning and thought meh. If my character at one time was ready to lay down his life for this woman it would need to take a lot more than what I have (even though if were someone else other than this wife.)

Yeah - if they had an unpleasant or loveless marriage, I could see this guy going all Rambo if he sees evidence framing her for murder or treason or whatever. But then it would be unrealistic for him to be affectionate with her afterwards.

If, on the other hand, I was married to a man who enjoyed being with me, loved me and respected me, then if he was confronted with evidence that I was selling state secrets, the first thing I expect him to do is talk to me about it. Give me a chance to explain.

I certainly understand your point about it quickly being resolved and I meant by that was the agent doesn't hit a few buttons and go "see you're wrong" but instead shows up with a mountain of data and .....

For me, the question is, what does the agent need in order to obtain these mountains of data?

The ton of evidence the husband found? Then the husband should have taken that evidence to the agent in the first place. The wife's testimony? Same thing - go to the agent.

If your characters get from points A to B by going from A to Z to Q to G to B, someone is going to wonder why they don't just go... well, from A to B.

But let me ask you this. Forgetting everything I wrote. What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?

Just to make sure I understand this, since you mentioned forgetting everything you wrote...

Are we still talking about the same couple where the wife is framed for treason and infidelity and murder and espionage and where the husband decides to kill her?
 
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