How can I write from a woman's POV?

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

quicklime said:
the energy field thing is still flawed:

An AR, most handguns, etc. either use the rearward energy (kick) that accompanies a bullet's forward energy (that equal and opposite bit from physics) to move the bolt mechanism, or use excess gas from the ignition to do the same basic thing. If the energy field somehow killed the bullet's travel, unless it stopped it mid-barrel (and how? lead is non-magnetic) the energy dissipation would cut both ways: no booolettttt and no ejection mechanism.

~~Okay. Makes sense. How 'bout a beep indicating no ammo. The field or signal can through off the weapon's systems and make it act as if it has no ammo and it will fail to fire.~~

Honestly that doesn't sit well with me because I think regardless of what a computer says the damn should fire if it has ammo in it but all things are possible in science fiction ... if they're done right.

A signal can be emitted to jam the gun or fry its systems. Or remote engage its safety in which case nothing would be heard.

quicklime · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
I think that at this point man or woman both would want her to die. She's very evil. Or it seems.

I don't really want many, if any, people to die. And there's folks who have hurt me I might want to sever ties with, and not want a fucking thing to do with, but I don't see myself ever wanting someone I loved to die. Even if I felt I was an idiot for loving them, I wouldn't want that.

quicklime · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
Okay. Makes sense. How 'bout a beep indicating no ammo. The field or signal can through off the weapon's systems and make it act as if it has no ammo and it will fail to fire.

Honestly that doesn't sit well with me because I think regardless of what a computer says the damn should fire if it has ammo in it but all things are possible in science fiction ... if they're done right.

is there a reason it can't just go "click" and not fire, if you're insisting upon this route? Because a tripped hammer or sear goes "click," the issue isn't the sound but the rationale you put behind what she heard.

Sophia · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her? Would a divorce still be logical because he lied about his past? Would she not want to be around him?

AndreF, it sounds like you don't have a clear grasp of your wife character's personality. If it's the case that her being female is causing a kind of writing block, you could try this as a way to get out of it:

Write her, all the way through your book, as if her name is John and she is male. Keep "male" at the front of your mind.

Once you're done, do a Find and Replace to change all the references to 'his' and 'he' to 'her' and 'she', and 'John' to 'Jane' (or whatever her name is).

Note: This exercise doesn't give you a character that will feel "true to women". But it will give you a consistent character, and that is the only important thing. After this point, you can give your story to readers for feedback to see if they point out any minor things that don't seem quite right.

Good luck. Problems with writing characters can be fixed with practice and experimentation. Keep going.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

quicklime said:
I don't really want many, if any, people to die. And there's folks who have hurt me I might want to sever ties with, and not want a fucking thing to do with, but I don't see myself ever wanting someone I loved to die. Even if I felt I was an idiot for loving them, I wouldn't want that.

That's what my light bulb was about. I write short stories so the changes I make can be done quickly and take a totally different direction at any time. Characters can be changed at the drop of a dime and a lot doesn't need to be done to change them. Not for me anyway. I just was thinking about the husband if he's the kind of guy that would be willing to die for his wife it would need to take a lot and even then he wouldn't want anything to happen to her. So I got that changed now.

For instance I can have my wife be a shy chick and in the next two hours I can have her be strong and independent. If a bunch of women had told me that they'd divorce the husband I can (in a few short hours) make the wife the kind of character that women can be proud of.

Reziac · Aug 20, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
I always have to ask, why do men ask this question about writing women so much more often than women seem to ask it about writing men?

Because women think they know men, while no matter how many women they're around, men are still baffled by women.

Seriously, what your character would do depends on what person she is otherwise. Which could be anything you created her to be. Whether her reaction is realistic will depend entirely on what she's established to be.

More to the point for me... how are we to be convinced the husband goes off the deep end like this? Cuz that's how it comes across. His background needs to support that too.

heza · Aug 20, 2014

Sophia said:
AndreF, it sounds like you don't have a clear grasp of your wife character's personality.

This is what sticks out to me in your posts, Andre. You started your question off with "There's this husband, and he's this and that and he goes through this and that, and then tries to kill his wife... How would she react?" But it's impossible to help you answer that because you've told us next to nothing about her. His experiences and personality and story don't determine what she would do--only hers do. So you're going to have to cement her character and then rewatch all of this from her perspective and then decide what she--a fully formed human being--would do.

AndreF said:
For instance I can have my wife be a shy chick and in the next two hours I can have her be strong and independent. If a bunch of women had told me that they'd divorce the husband I can (in a few short hours) make the wife the kind of character that women can be proud of.

*skeptical gaze*

What do you mean here? Are you saying that based on feedback, you can quickly change the entire personality of the wife to suit the audience (or whatever you're interpreting to be the "most womanly" response)? If that's the case... that you can, in a few hours, rewrite the wife to match "what women want," then I'm not sure you've got a three-dimensional, integrated character in the wife. If he's the MC and his story is so influenced by what she's done or not done, then she's still important and she needs to be a real character—not just a paper doll you can dress up in whatever people tell you women are like. That's what's going to be least believable.

Thorberta · Aug 20, 2014

Have her menstruate. A lot. That's what women do.

Seriously though, the character doesn't have to please 'all' women (impossible!), she just has to react in a way that makes sense with who she is, her balance of logic and emotions, not 'insert cliché here'.

Marian Perera · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
For instance I can have my wife be a shy chick and in the next two hours I can have her be strong and independent.

You can certainly do that. But then the story you want to tell should change, because a strong independent woman will behave differently from a shy passive one (I don't like the term "chick", so I don't use it).

One of the best analogies I've read was that neither Hamlet nor Romeo and Juliet would have been tragedies if the male leads had been switched. Romeo would have run Claudius through at the first opportunity, and Hamlet would have spent so much time contemplating suicide in the crypt that Juliet would have woken up.

If a bunch of women had told me that they'd divorce the husband I can (in a few short hours) make the wife the kind of character that women can be proud of.

I hope you're not making the assumption that a kick-ass Strong Female Character will automatically be popular with women.

quicklime · Aug 20, 2014

heza said:
*skeptical gaze*

What do you mean here? Are you saying that based on feedback, you can quickly change the entire personality of the wife to suit the audience (or whatever you're interpreting to be the "most womanly" response)? If that's the case... that you can, in a few hours, rewrite the wife to match "what women want," then I'm not sure you've got a three-dimensional, integrated character in the wife. If he's the MC and his story is so influenced by what she's done or not done, then she's still important and she needs to be a real character—not just a paper doll you can dress up in whatever people tell you women are like. That's what's going to be least believable.

fwiw, this caught my eye too. I didn't say anything before, figuring I'd said more than enough, but I am in full agreement on this. People are complex; I would say at a guess I spent like eight hours on Games, which was a short story I wrote, and I thought that came together really well and quick. But it was still eight hours, to get those 2 characters to be what I wanted them to be. I don't think I could have made either one particularly "real" in two.

Maybe you're way better at that than I am, and that IS entirely possible, but I'm fearing its more a matter of "I shall change the line "I don't know, she said demurely" to "I will have a cup, yes, she said proudly," and that isn't really changing the character in a convincing manner....

Jamesaritchie · Aug 20, 2014

Whatever you have YOUR female character do, or whatever YOUR male character does, set it up in advance. Show the reader what kind person the character is, show personality, likes and dislikes, and physical training, etc.

But you might want to work on this line: Then the faint click of the weapons mechanisms moving to eject a round that isn't there.

I have no clue what this could possibly mean.

Latina Bunny · Aug 20, 2014

shadowwalker said:
I don't think it would unrealistic for things to be worked out....

One of my personal pet peeves with to many female characters on TV is that they react emotionally at first (perfectly understandable) but then refuse to change their mindset when the facts are presented. That, IMHO, is just as sexist. It basically says women in general cannot tone down the emotions enough to act rationally.

I would be one of those women who can hold grudges at times, and I would never trust that man ever again. (Or, at least, he's going to have to make up for it for a long while.)

That action is too extreme for me, and it would probably traumatize me for awhile. I already have a fear of people, so this kind of action from someone I supposedly trusted would be the breaking point for me.

I guess I would be acting like one of those women you dislike on tv. Because I'm sooo irrational that way. I mean, it's not like there are some women who act on emotions--oh, wait. That's part of being an individual person acting like a human being.

Not all women are the same. Just like not all men are the same. Some act on emotions, some act on facts, and some may act on emotions first and then calm down, etc.

Reziac · Aug 20, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
But you might want to work on this line: Then the faint click of the weapons mechanisms moving to eject a round that isn't there.

I have no clue what this could possibly mean.

"The hammer fell on an empty chamber" perhaps? But maybe symptomatic of too much manipulating from a remote viewpoint, and not enough letting the characters be themselves on the spot. If they're solid characters, they'll refuse to act out of character anyway.

buz · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
What would be true to women if the wife learns that he laid his life on the line to save her?

AndreF said:
If a bunch of women had told me that they'd divorce the husband I can (in a few short hours) make the wife the kind of character that women can be proud of.

You're still missing the point.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

Reziac said:
Because women think they know men, while no matter how many women they're around, men are still baffled by women. Very true.

Seriously, what your character would do depends on what person she is otherwise. Which could be anything you created her to be. Whether her reaction is realistic will depend entirely on what she's established to be.

More to the point for me... how are we to be convinced the husband goes off the deep end like this? Cuz that's how it comes across. His background needs to support that too.

You'll be convinced about his background. That isn't a problem. I know haven't talked much about his background because that doesn't really matter for the sake of trying to figure out what the woman would do. So I revamped the story and instead of him thinking she's the enemy he'll think she's being framed and will save her.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

quicklime said:
fwiw, this caught my eye too. I didn't say anything before, figuring I'd said more than enough, but I am in full agreement on this. People are complex; I would say at a guess I spent like eight hours on Games, which was a short story I wrote, and I thought that came together really well and quick. But it was still eight hours, to get those 2 characters to be what I wanted them to be. I don't think I could have made either one particularly "real" in two.

Maybe you're way better at that than I am, and that IS entirely possible, but I'm fearing its more a matter of "I shall change the line "I don't know, she said demurely" to "I will have a cup, yes, she said proudly," and that isn't really changing the character in a convincing manner....

It doesn't take make long to develop characters. But developing a character that is true and accurate takes a while. I don't develop a lot of female characters and present a story from their POV. I did remember reading about a woman putting pants on her shapely legs. Most books I've read from a woman's POV is that they hate a lot of their features...hair, body, etc.

Bufty · Aug 20, 2014

What do you mean by true and accurate? True and accurate to what?

The character only has to be true and accurate (believable) in relation to their actions and reactions as that character in their involvement in the unfolding events of the story.

AndreF said:
It doesn't take make long to develop characters. But developing a character that is true and accurate takes a while. I don't develop a lot of female characters and present a story from their POV. I did remember reading a woman putting on her shapely legs. Most books I've read from a woman's POV is that they hate a lot of their features...hair, body, etc.

Reziac · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
You'll be convinced about his background. That isn't a problem. I know haven't talked much about his background because that doesn't really matter for the sake of trying to figure out what the woman would do. So I revamped the story and instead of him thinking she's the enemy he'll think she's being framed and will save her.

Good, go for it.

I have to add... they sound remarkably like my next-door neighbors!!

Marian Perera · Aug 20, 2014

AndreF said:
I did remember reading about a woman putting pants on her shapely legs.

That's what another poster referred to as the "male gaze".

Most books I've read from a woman's POV is that they hate a lot of their features...hair, body, etc.

This makes me wonder what kind of books you're reading.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

Thorberta said:
Have her menstruate. A lot. That's what women do.

Seriously though, the character doesn't have to please 'all' women (impossible!), she just has to react in a way that makes sense with who she is, her balance of logic and emotions, not 'insert cliché here'.

I'll give it a shot ... I'll take into consideration what I know and will give it a whirl.

I just don't want a Pussy Galore (chick from James Bond movies the Sean Conrey movies) thought that was the dumbest name for a female character.

There was this other movie where the chick would get in firefights wearing high heels ... seriously what women do you know will walk into a hallway half naked wearing stilettos and blast people with Uzis?

Or another movie where you have women working on cars and they're wearing short skirts, thigh high boots, and loosely fit button up shirts showing off their cleavage. I have never in my life seen a woman wearing one that outfit and two wearing that outfit and working on a corroborator.

These women were developed and acted accordingly their characters ... poorly written characters too.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

Queen of Swords said:
That's what another poster referred to as the "male gaze".

This makes me wonder what kind of books you're reading.

I read a few a while ago couldn't tell who wrote them but apparently they loved their men with six packs, brown eyes and hair, some with a tan and some without. Bleh. But the MCs would hate their straight hair or how her butt looked this way and not that way and why men did this was beyond her.

AndreF · Aug 20, 2014

Okay I do thank everyone for taking their time to give me their advice. Which is pretty much the same write true to character. I think we can call this issue partially resolved.

Write true to character is the answer to the question that has been asked. Got it.

Let's shut this sucker down.

MakanJuu · Aug 20, 2014

At heart, all human brains work in exactly the same way. You don't need to worry about writing differences between male & female characters & just worry about creating A Character.

pandaponies · Aug 20, 2014

I'm glad to see you've gotten the point of what everyone was saying, Andre.

(And I'm sorry for being personally insulting earlier in the thread. I was probably tired and grumpy and took it out on you/this thread and I shouldn't have.)

amergina · Aug 20, 2014

I always cringe when someone asks this question.

Mostly because I spent a number of years asking this exact question. And I'm a woman. For the life of me, I could not write about women, not well.

Men? No problem. I got men. I understood men. I did not understand women. (Note again, I am a woman.) Oh, I understood my women friends, but they were like me: Not Like Women.

And then I realized that I had swallowed wholesale the idea that "Women" were some other thing than "people" or "men".

I understood men because in fiction and in media and in life, there are tons of different kinds of men and they're individuals. They had various interests, did various things, had various hopes and dreams.

As for women... well, they weren't interested in the stuff I was interested in. Women are all timid and not into science and into makeup and cheerleading and dresses and hate books, and are vapid, and are blonde and blue-eyed, only interested in rich men, etc. etc. Women weren't adventurers or scientists or smart, or...

Yeah. So I viewed myself as Not A Real Woman, as a defective women. I didn't understand women because I was not what society taught me that women were. The problem, I thought, lay with me.

Turns out, all that crap we're fed about what women are and how different they are from men and people... is UTTER AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Which is why all the advice you're getting is about writing women as humans. As individuals.

We are different and varied, just like men.

Once I realized I was actually a typical woman because THERE IS NO TYPICAL WOMAN, I suddenly could write as strong women characters as I could write men characters.

Women are not aliens. We're human.

I don't blame you, though. Society has pretty much taught us the opposite.

How can I write from a woman's POV?

practical experience, FTW

all out of fucks to give

all out of fucks to give

practical experience, FTW

Resident Alien

Not a squirrel, but close.

starting over

all out of fucks to give

Lover of Contemporary/Fantasy Romance (she/her)

Resident Alien

edits all posts at least four times

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

Where have the last ten years gone?

Resident Alien

starting over

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

in ur boardz, correctin ur grammar

Pittsburgh Strong