Do you have a right to privacy (and to call Obama a "nigger?")

dah

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Here's an interesting article on the subject:

Rich Kids Better Prepared to Hide Their Racist Tweets and Status Updates

The last paragraph:

"The children of highly-educated, high-income parents aren’t necessarily less racist than their peers. But they are more equipped to hide their worst thoughts from college admissions counselors and pesky journalists—meaning that they’re more likely to secure the employment and education opportunities that could help them change their tune."

It made me think of the situation in a different way.
 

Sarashay

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"The children of highly-educated, high-income parents aren’t necessarily less racist than their peers. But they are more equipped to hide their worst thoughts from college admissions counselors and pesky journalists—meaning that they’re more likely to secure the employment and education opportunities that could help them change their tune."

It made me think of the situation in a different way.

And this snaps into focus why the tumblr in question strikes me as bullying--because it's someone from a higher socioeconomic strata picking on people from a lower one.
 

Unimportant

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And this snaps into focus why the tumblr in question strikes me as bullying--because it's someone from a higher socioeconomic strata picking on people from a lower one.
Wait -- do we know that the people who set up those 'shaming' tumblrs come from a higher SES than the idiots who make racist tweets?

I can buy "lots of teens think it but only the ones from poor uneducated families tweet it publicly." I can't buy "lots of teens think it, but the ones from poor uneducated families tweet it publicly while the ones from rich educated families tweet it privately and simulataneouly set up shame-tumblrs to mock the ones who do it publicly."
 

Williebee

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And this snaps into focus why the tumblr in question strikes me as bullying--because it's someone from a higher socioeconomic strata picking on people from a lower one.

Has anything been presented here that supports this? The possibility, maybe, but not the fact of it.
 

missesdash

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Here's an interesting article on the subject:

Rich Kids Better Prepared to Hide Their Racist Tweets and Status Updates

The last paragraph:

"The children of highly-educated, high-income parents aren’t necessarily less racist than their peers. But they are more equipped to hide their worst thoughts from college admissions counselors and pesky journalists—meaning that they’re more likely to secure the employment and education opportunities that could help them change their tune."

It made me think of the situation in a different way.

This isn't new at all. It's the same offline.

Rich people are also better a robbing us than the poor because they don't need guns. The fact that the offence is easier to get away with when the person is well of is completely irrelevant when deciding on a proper response/punishment.


And in this case, I don't care about how racist people are in private. Whether or not someone is racist is none of my business. I'm only concerned with whether or not they perpetuate oppression with their words and/or actions.
 

Death Wizard

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This isn't new at all. It's the same offline.

Rich people are also better a robbing us than the poor because they don't need guns. The fact that the offence is easier to get away with when the person is well of is completely irrelevant when deciding on a proper response/punishment.


And in this case, I don't care about how racist people are in private. Whether or not someone is racist is none of my business. I'm only concerned with whether or not they perpetuate oppression with their words and/or actions.

I don't see any difference.
 

blacbird

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You don't see the difference between shouting "I hate niggers" into your pillow every night and refusing to hire african americans?

That, I see. But I don't quite understand how your comment relates to the issue discussed in this thread, which is what I think DW was responding to. Specifically, tweets, by definition, ain't private.

caw
 

missesdash

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That, I see. But I don't quite understand how your comment relates to the issue discussed in this thread, which is what I think DW was responding to. Specifically, tweets, by definition, ain't private.

caw

I was responding to the articles about rich kids who know how to hide the shitty things they say online (they keep it private, essentially) and the (presumeably poor) kids who don't...for whatever reason.
 

blacbird

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I was responding to the articles about rich kids who know how to hide the shitty things they say online (they keep it private, essentially) and the (presumeably poor) kids who don't...for whatever reason.

Your word "presumably", bolded above, is the first thing that bothers me. There's absolutely no evidence that this is true. You, individually, have completely "presumed" this. The Internet is ubiquitously available, and I know plenty of pretty poor people who use it widely and constantly. I get the sense that nobody in this nation is too poor to own a smart phone.

Second, how do "rich kids" keep their on-line stuff private, while "poor kids" don't? That's a serious question. I don't know how anybody manages to keep tweets or other on-line communications private. All manner of otherwise savvy and sophisticated people have got into serious trouble for things they've said in e-mails, tweets, or on-line forums.

The core of this discussion is pretty simple. From the thread title: "Do you have the right to call Obama a nigger?"

Yes, you do, from a legal standpoint. No one is going to arrest anybody who does this. That's where the legal right stops. Do others offended by your comment have a right to criticize or ridicule or bring into public awareness what you've said? Yes, they do. Do your employers or other people affected by what you've said have a right to apply private sanctions based on what you've said? They most certainly do.

More than one prominent person has been fired from a job for uttering a statement in public that reflects badly on their employer, both in the public and private sectors. That's the way it is.

And the way it should be. You own your words. It's a concept called "responsibility". You don't want somebody giving you crap about what you say in public?

Don't say it.

caw
 

blacbird

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You don't see the difference between perpetuating racism, or at least attempting to, and....not?

I think what DW was trying to express was that people who shout racist pronouncements into their pillows in private at night are very likely to be the same people who perpetuate racist policies in hiring, housing, etc., quietly, in public. But maybe he should clarify that.

caw
 

thebloodfiend

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The notion of the secret racist is interesting. I don't think they exist. If you're a hardcore racist, I don't think there's anyway to prevent that from showing in day to to interactions unless you're some kind of psychopath who takes it out by... hold up, that's the plot of the craigslist killer.

Anyway, I don't think there's a way to be racist "privately" without it affecting someone. There are different levels, sure, but I'd like to eliminate them all. They're all bad for society.
 

missesdash

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Your word "presumably", bolded above, is the first thing that bothers me. There's absolutely no evidence that this is true. You, individually, have completely "presumed" this. The Internet is ubiquitously available, and I know plenty of pretty poor people who use it widely and constantly. I get the sense that nobody in this nation is too poor to own a smart phone.

Second, how do "rich kids" keep their on-line stuff private, while "poor kids" don't? That's a serious question. I don't know how anybody manages to keep tweets or other on-line communications private. All manner of otherwise savvy and sophisticated people have got into serious trouble for things they've said in e-mails, tweets, or on-line forums.

The core of this discussion is pretty simple. From the thread title: "Do you have the right to call Obama a nigger?"

Yes, you do, from a legal standpoint. No one is going to arrest anybody who does this. That's where the legal right stops. Do others offended by your comment have a right to criticize or ridicule or bring into public awareness what you've said? Yes, they do. Do your employers or other people affected by what you've said have a right to apply private sanctions based on what you've said? They most certainly do.

More than one prominent person has been fired from a job for uttering a statement in public that reflects badly on their employer, both in the public and private sectors. That's the way it is.

And the way it should be. You own your words. It's a concept called "responsibility". You don't want somebody giving you crap about what you say in public?

Don't say it.

caw

Blacbird. I was responding to an article. About poor kids. And rich kids. I quoted it. I haven't presumed anything.

All of my posts in the thread support the blog in the OP. you're way off in your interpretation of my post.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Your word "presumably", bolded above, is the first thing that bothers me. There's absolutely no evidence that this is true. You, individually, have completely "presumed" this. The Internet is ubiquitously available, and I know plenty of pretty poor people who use it widely and constantly. I get the sense that nobody in this nation is too poor to own a smart phone.

Second, how do "rich kids" keep their on-line stuff private, while "poor kids" don't? That's a serious question. I don't know how anybody manages to keep tweets or other on-line communications private. All manner of otherwise savvy and sophisticated people have got into serious trouble for things they've said in e-mails, tweets, or on-line forums.

Somebody upthread posted an article about this, if you're wondering.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...divide_rich_kids_better_prepared_to_hide.html

This is where the "presumably" came from, and all that.
 

dah

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I posted the article. I'm sorry if it led to misunderstandings re: responses to the original post.

I posted it because it made me think about the factor of ignorance in the whole thing.
 

dah

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And in this case, I don't care about how racist people are in private. Whether or not someone is racist is none of my business. I'm only concerned with whether or not they perpetuate oppression with their words and/or actions.

I do care how racist people are in private. Eventually it will come out in their actions. Subtly or not.
 

missesdash

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I do care how racist people are in private. Eventually it will come out in their actions. Subtly or not.

That's one theory. But if it doesn't you won't ever know and you can't care, even if you really want to.
 

dah

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That's one theory. But if it doesn't you won't ever know and you can't care, even if you really want to.

That's along the theory of you need to see it to fight it.

The segment of society that's savvy at hiding their hate worries me too. Often that's where the power lies.

The tumblr site reminded me how prevalent racism still is. I think the OP mentioned this.
 

Williebee

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That's along the theory of you need to see it to fight it.

The segment of society that's savvy at hiding their hate worries me too. Often that's where the power lies.

Up front, you don't need to see racism to fight it. You can fight it by speaking out against the concept and by being a good example.

As for the second part, that's an unfortunate generalization.
 

backslashbaby

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My racist handyman is an obnoxious, loud-mouthed racist in front of white people, right? Oddly enough, he has a lot of Black friends and they constantly do favors for each other, go out and have fun, etc. I asked him about it, and he says he likes them, just not Black people in general. Okey dokey.

And he's not about to be hiring anyone any time soon. I know it sounds strange, but he really strikes me as much less of a threat than many socially-acceptable folks in important positions who would never sound like racist asses. My Black neighbor knows full well what the handyman runs his mouth about, but he still hires him to do work like the rest of us. Being able to fire someone changes a lot, I think ;)
 

Rufus Coppertop

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I do care how racist people are in private. Eventually it will come out in their actions. Subtly or not.
You'll only ever know about the individuals who can't conceal it.

Everyone you meet could potentially be stereotyping others based on racial factors in the privacy of their own minds.

Trust no one. :chair
 

J.S.F.

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Do you have the right to call the President--or any other person of color/creed--a vicious, derogatory word? Absolutely. It's wrong, it's terrible, and it's totally vile, but under the laws of the land you can speak your opinion, even if it's misinformed, ignorant, or just plain dumb.

Some of the most idiotic, racist things I've ever heard came from well-educated i.e. went to university white people of the Christian persuasion, but then again, I've heard some pretty stupid things come out of the mouths of Jews, Muslims, and atheists, blacks and Asians, many of whom came from what you'd term lower to middle-income earning brackets. In other words, stupid isn't the exclusive domain of the rich or the well-edumakated. It can and does come from everywhere.

The question posed by the OP is one that is very simple and yet complex. Under freedom of speech laws, as far as I understand it, you can say what you like if it does not lead to any violence. So far, there hasn't been any towards Obama or his family. This isn't to say someone isn't contemplating it...but then again, all Presidents had to worry about getting assassinated and Kennedy paid with his life as did his brother who might have become another president somewhere down the line.

You can't prevent people from being assholes. Sure, educate them that racism/anti-Semitism/anti-Muslim feelings are wrong--and they are--but the responsibility of curbing that kind of thinking ultimately lies with the thinker. Even if you shut down their computer privileges or take away their smart phones, they'll find another way to air their views. Beating their faces in or jailing them is only a short-term solution...and it won't change their minds one damn bit. Ignoring them or socially shunning them may help...but it won't change their views unless THEY want to make the initial change themselves.

JMO on all this...