Blake Snyder Save the Cat genres for novels

inspiredbymusic

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Hello, I've been writing and revising YA novels for a number of years and recently (while in midst of latest round of revisions) decided to take a look at Blake Snyder's Save the Cat.
Lots of fiction writers seem to find using Snyder's beat sheet very helpful. But I haven't seen much (if any) discussion of how well his 10 movie genres align with novel genres.
Does anyone have thoughts on whether Blake Snyder's method of categorizing stories into 10 basic types applies just as well to novels as it does to movies? Does anyone know of any lists of novels categorized according to Snyder's genres?
Thanks!
 

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It's an older thread, and hanging out in Writing for Kids, not YA, but there's a longish discussion here that may have experiences of using the method
 

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What are the ten genres?
Ooh, I can answer that--sort of.
They're not genre (in the traditional sense), per se. They're more like basic types of (movie) plots.

You know how some story theories say there are only "# of types of plots/types of stories in the world"? Like, "Man vs. Self", "Man vs. Nature", "Man vs. Man", etc?

Snyder's Save The Cat is one of those kinds of theories.
Snyder says that movies can be simplified into 10 types of plot.
Some I can think off the top of my head are: Monster in the House; Dude With A Problem; Buddy Love; Superhero; Out of the Bottle; Golden Fleece; Rites of Passage...
 
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I see. I would first disagree that it's quite so easy to break them down for movies, and second, I don't think it lines up 100% with book genres/plots/whatever. Maybe between 50-80%?


It's kind of like the various kinds of conflict lists that go around, where people claim anywhere from 3 to 30. You just have to be clever and vague enough to claim your list covers everything.
 

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There is only the issue of the reverse plot, machine vs. man instead of man vs. machine. Where your looking at the protagonists adventure through the lens of the antagonist.
 

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There is only the issue of the reverse plot, machine vs. man instead of man vs. machine. Where your looking at the protagonists adventure through the lens of the antagonist.
Like 'My Best Friend's Wedding'? Movie example, not book, but I think it fits the criteria.
 

inspiredbymusic

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Thanks for the link, Sage. Very helpful!
And thanks to everyone else too. Snyder makes convincing arguments for his 10 genres, but not everyone finds his methods helpful.
I'm finding Save the Cat quite fascinating and I think it will help me with my current revisions and other projects. :)
 

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Thanks for the link, Sage. Very helpful!
And thanks to everyone else too. Snyder makes convincing arguments for his 10 genres, but not everyone finds his methods helpful.
I'm finding Save the Cat quite fascinating and I think it will help me with my current revisions and other projects. :)

If it works for you, then use it. :)

While I don't agree with everything Synder says, I enjoy learning about story structure theories. I have his books as well as some other story structure books. :) (My father loves learning about the movie craft, so he has several script writing books.)

Regarding the 10 genre, even fans of Synder on the official forum have some disagreements on what the genre of some movies are. I think there are some movies that are hard define according to Synder's genre types. Some movies are even considered having more than one genre types by some fans.
 

inspiredbymusic

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bunny-gypsy,
Thanks!
Yeah, I think it will be helpful, but of course I won't really know until I try it. I'm hoping I can use the framework as a guide and not get too hung up on nailing everything into a structure. We'll see!

I know what you mean about not agreeing with everything he says, but then I find it hard too know if I have a legitimate disagreement with his theories, or if I'm stubbornly clinging to something in my story that doesn't work ...

I'm finding that, like you, I really enjoy studying the story structures, not only as a writer, but just for its own sake. It's entertaining!

I was having a really difficult time trying to figure out which (if any) of Snyder's genres my WIP fit, but now I think I've got it and I think knowing will definitely help my story. :)
 

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bunny-gypsy,
Thanks!
I was having a really difficult time trying to figure out which (if any) of Snyder's genres my WIP fit, but now I think I've got it and I think knowing will definitely help my story. :)

Like I said earlier, don't stress about fitting exactly into one of his story types; I think I remembered some Snyder fans have said that some movies could be fit into more than one story category.

Good luck with it! :)
 

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I'm a fan of Mr Snyder's work. Try not to see either the genres or the beats as prescriptive - they're just different ways to think about how stories work.

If you haven't already got it, the companion book - Save The Cat Goes To The Movies - is invaluable. It shows how all sorts of different films work in the genres, and how there are many, many different plots that you can create with the beats - not just Star Wars retreads.
 

inspiredbymusic

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Thanks again for the input, bunny-gypsy and onesecondglance.
I'm in the process of going through my ms and making index cards. It's definitely helping me look at it from a different perspective and giving me insight on what some weaknesses may be.
And yes, I'm going to get hold of Save the Cat Goes to the Movies. :)
 

inspiredbymusic

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I'm back to answer the question I asked in my original post myself. :D Yes, Snyder's genres fit novels as well as movies.

I've been studying Save the Cat (and Save the Cat Goes to the Movies), along with online blogs/discussions of Save the Cat and other plot structure methods, for several weeks. I also agonized over which of Snyder's genres my story fit into and I went through about half of the genres feeling sure for a few days at a time that I'd found the right one and then changing my mind and moving onto another. It was my difficulty finding the genre that fit my novel that lead me to post my question.

BUT I am now sure that my WIP is what Snyder calls a Buddy Love story and I am also convinced that knowing this is going to help me get this story "right" once and for all. Since the time I started writing this project I've told myself that while my novel includes a romance, it is not central, not what the story is about. Studying the Save the Cat genres has made me realize that in fact the love story IS central. I believe that knowing that, knowing where to put the focus and what elements are needed to make this love story work is going to put me lightyears ahead. I now have a plan to fast-track my revisions and I'm very optimistic about where this will lead. :)

So, bottom line, I highly recommend Save the Cat to any writer. Personally I think I'm finding Snyder's genre definitions even more helpful than his beat-sheet. Of course what works for one writer isn't necessarily right for another. But I was afraid that studying plot structure, like Save the Cat, would kill my creativity or artistry, and IMO nothing could be further from the truth. Here's a quote I love from the end of Save the Cat Goes to the Movies that I think captures this:

"Let the stories bubble up from deep within, in patterns we've used to tell stories forever. Fact is the stories come from a higher source--that's why they keep repeating. They're being broadcast to us to remind us why we get up every day and hit it one more time, and we all carry the message ... what resonates is truth."
 

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I'm not sure I agree every story follows these patterns. But I'm not going to argue the point.
 
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