At what point do you worry about driving people away?

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ShaunHorton

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So, I'm getting a bit close to the end of my current WIP, and throughout the work so far, I'm treading a pretty thin line as far as what people would probably find acceptable, even in a horror novel. The basis of the story is Cujo + The Exorcist. So, if there's anything people will turn away from more than violence towards kids, I think it's probably violence toward animals. Which, yes, there is a bit here.

My current scene is after the dog has been put down, (shot by a police officer in the family's backyard) and is currently at the vet clinic. Everyone has pretty much decided she was rabid, so they have to go through the procedure to test for it. Now, for those that aren't aware, the most accurate and conclusive test for rabies requires a healthy sample of brain tissue. To accommodate this, in a suspected Rabies case, a veterinary practice will surgically remove the head, put it on ice, and send it out in the express mail.

My question is pretty much this. Since I'm already treading a thin line between horror and sympathy and I just blatantly shot the animal, would it be too much for a lot of readers if I actually made it given information in the book about the procedure taken to test for the disease?

(For those curious, the remainder of the scene involves the re-animation of the body, its murderous actions as it searches the clinic for the missing head, and the demonic re-attachment of said head.)
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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The scenario will no doubt gross some people out and stop them from reading your book. But if you're upfront about the fact that it's a story with a zombie-dog (or something similar) I don't think anyone ALREADY reading with that in mind will be driven off, no.
 

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I think you have to listen to your gut. We are the storytellers. We have to be true to our own vision. Write for yourself because the moment you start writing for other people is the moment you lose authenticity. When you're revising, you can decide if you want to tone something down. Get feedback from beta readers, and make your edits if you feel they enhance the story.

I have some pretty heavy sections in my book, too, and I break them up with humor. I'll scare people, horrify them, and then make them laugh. I also try to keep the human element, even with my villains. I think you need to have something about them that evokes empathy in the reader, or they won't tolerate some of the heavier stuff.

Just my opinion...
 

itsmary

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You have to figure out who your audience is. Since you're writing horror, you'd probably have a lot of readers who don't get shocked or want to turn away easily. If they know to expect a lot of gore and animal cruelty, they'll either not read the book or they'll read it and won't be too shocked.
As for an in-depth description of a rabies test, I'd try to determine whether it's relevant to the story or not. Can you get away with not giving a detailed description? If you can, then cut it. If you feel like it's necessary and can't be cut, keep it in. A lot of people won't like it, but that's just the nature of writing. And that goes for any scene, not just gore.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I don't worry about driving readers away, I worry about driving myself away. I do my best to write what I would love to read if someone else wrote it.
 

Russell Secord

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Seriously? You think a simple surgical decapitation will gross readers out more than this next part??

... the remainder of the scene involves the re-animation of the body, its murderous actions as it searches the clinic for the missing head, and the demonic re-attachment of said head.

Maybe I'm out of date on where to set the bar, but you can see fairly graphic surgery on television. I can't see it having the same impact as what you describe. My two cents.
 

ShaunHorton

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It's not as much about what happens, as opposed to who to. People generally have a thing about violence happening towards animals. Not so much violence towards other humans. Even personally speaking, I would take a human being decapitated over some hapless pet or animal any day.
 

Haggis

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One of my favorite animal characters was Churchill, the undead cat from King's Pet Semetary. But then again, I'm not quite right.
 

Jamesaritchie

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It's not as much about what happens, as opposed to who to. People generally have a thing about violence happening towards animals. Not so much violence towards other humans. Even personally speaking, I would take a human being decapitated over some hapless pet or animal any day.

I once had a story rejected because I had a dog violently killed. The editor said I could kill and torture adults, and I might even get away with killing or troturing a child, but if she published a story where this happened to an animal, her readers would come after her with torches and pitchforks.
 

JulianneQJohnson

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Well, I read your description and thought, "Cool!" It's a horror story that involves an animal. I think that people who want to read this genre won't be put off by the bit where the dog loses his head. Horror doesn't appeal to the particularly squeamish. Folks who can't stand to read about an animal harmed or decapitated, aren't likely to pick your book up in the first place. You also have a sort of "get out of jail free" card, as your dog isn't strictly a happy little pet anymore when this event happens. Decapitate Lassie, heartbreak all around. Decapitate Cujo, not so much.
 

elinor

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My feeling is that readers are driven away when the writer breaks their promises to the reader on what they are getting. From what I have seen, one unnamed author of a series lost most of their readers when they broke the promise of the series midway and it became something entirely, including the total moral corruption of the main character. Your promise to the readers is that you're writing a sort of horror story, so I would think that detailing the procedure would be in line with that promise.
 

Dryad

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I think most people who have read all the way to the climactic final scenes will be unlikely to stop without finishing the story. That doesn't mean you don't have the possibility of alienating your readers at that point, but, as others have said, I think you have to decide who it is you're writing for and use your judgement from there. I do think that most people expect a little extra something for the big finale.
 

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I would agree with what most others have said. This kind of stuff goes with the territory.
The reader might be angry or upset – but you’re confronting them, forcing them to have a reaction. I don’t think that is a bad thing.
 

WormHeart

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Animals are tricky.

You can hurt them in stories, if the story calls for it, but there will be a reaction. Count on the reaction or at least incorporate it into your expectations.

One of my best stories have a very hard time selling, since the subject matter is a father, who kills his two daughters.

Stephen King got a huge backlash from the opening scene of The Dead Zone, where the bad guy kills a dog.

It surprised him and he had to repeatedly ask people if they were aware that the dog did not in fact exist and had not been in any pain.

All that said, I dont think your particular scene should cause too much concern. The tricky part is killing it - not an autopsy.

:)

WormHeart
 

ShaunHorton

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Animals are tricky.

You can hurt them in stories, if the story calls for it, but there will be a reaction. Count on the reaction or at least incorporate it into your expectations.

One of my best stories have a very hard time selling, since the subject matter is a father, who kills his two daughters.

Stephen King got a huge backlash from the opening scene of The Dead Zone, where the bad guy kills a dog.

It surprised him and he had to repeatedly ask people if they were aware that the dog did not in fact exist and had not been in any pain.

All that said, I dont think your particular scene should cause too much concern. The tricky part is killing it - not an autopsy.

:)

WormHeart

Yeah. I've tried to read The Dead Zone a few times, and I just can't get past that scene. :p
 

Jamesaritchie

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Well, I read your description and thought, "Cool!" It's a horror story that involves an animal. I think that people who want to read this genre won't be put off by the bit where the dog loses his head. Horror doesn't appeal to the particularly squeamish. Folks who can't stand to read about an animal harmed or decapitated, aren't likely to pick your book up in the first place. You also have a sort of "get out of jail free" card, as your dog isn't strictly a happy little pet anymore when this event happens. Decapitate Lassie, heartbreak all around. Decapitate Cujo, not so much.

Cujo, yes, but even in horror, you will catch some serious flak for treating animals cruelly. Decapitate Lassie, and the heart that gets broken might be yours. People are funny, and no matter how much bloodshed and violence the tolerate, there's something about animals that draws a line most won't cross.

If you torture an animal, make darned sure that animal deserves it. Even then you'll probably get some nasty e-mails.
 

Gnome

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Well, I read your description and thought, "Cool!" It's a horror story that involves an animal. I think that people who want to read this genre won't be put off by the bit where the dog loses his head. Horror doesn't appeal to the particularly squeamish. Folks who can't stand to read about an animal harmed or decapitated, aren't likely to pick your book up in the first place. You also have a sort of "get out of jail free" card, as your dog isn't strictly a happy little pet anymore when this event happens. Decapitate Lassie, heartbreak all around. Decapitate Cujo, not so much.

This is a good point. People won't react well to a cute little fluffy dog getting killed, but a wild, rabid beast is totally different.
 

sdewar83

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Red by Jack Ketchum is a story where the protagonist's pet dog is killed and he seeks revenge. It's upsetting BECAUSE its a pet dog and the protagonist is an old retiree and genuinely awesome guy. Which makes you root for him in his quest for vengeance. If it had been a zombie dog or demon dog etc.. I totally wouldn't have found it emotional at all. You can shoot/behead demon dogs and no one will care.. the only thing they'll care about is if you're graphic in doing it because they've got weak stomachs. Shooting a family pet though is a completely different issue..
 

Wormwood

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I just read an article from a pretty big name writer where he said if it's something you think might upset people, then that's exactly the reason to put it in.

I think readers want to experience something even if the emotion is ugly. Feeling angry or feeling disgusted is better than feeling nothing at all from what you're reading.

As many people that are turned off by this sort of thing there will be just as many who think it's important and will be glad you had the balls to go there.

I don't know the scene exactly so I don't know how offensive it is, but I think as long as you aren't glorifying animal abuse than it should be fair game. After all it is fiction. The nasty stuff is what makes a story especially horror stand out from the cliche'.... if it's done right.

just my opinion

micahackerman.weebly.com
 

Rechan

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How explicit are you going to be? Because just saying 'They remove the dog's head, take a piece of brain and run it through a test', I don't think anyone's going to have a problem with that. But if you go into gritty detail of the size and texture of the brain inside the dog's skull like the inner rind of a cantaloupe then you're going to run into a problem.

its murderous actions as it searches the clinic for the missing head
Out of curiosity, how is the dog killing people without teeth? Dog claws aren't exactly razor talons.
 

ShaunHorton

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How explicit are you going to be? Because just saying 'They remove the dog's head, take a piece of brain and run it through a test', I don't think anyone's going to have a problem with that. But if you go into gritty detail of the size and texture of the brain inside the dog's skull like the inner rind of a cantaloupe then you're going to run into a problem.


Out of curiosity, how is the dog killing people without teeth? Dog claws aren't exactly razor talons.

Well, human skin isn't exactly armor either. Sharp or not, put some demonic strength behind them and it shouldn't be too hard to disembowel somebody.

Most veterinary clinics don't have the equipment to test for rabies themselves, and (at least when I worked there) they don't have the equipment to extract a sample, pack it safely and ship it to the lab. So, what happens is that they surgically remove the head from the body, which tends to be a slow process of taking the biggest scalpel in the clinic and working their way around, severing arteries, muscle, and other tissue, until they can clear enough stuff away from the spine to snip it with a pair of sheers. The entire head is usually then packed up in ice and shipped to the lab whole.

My original plan was to go into that process a bit. Thankfully though, the story swerved a bit on me and made it unnecessary.
 

Kitty27

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I have no problem with almost any type of gore. Offing a pet in a story doesn't make me recoil whatsoever. But then I am quite thrown off,as my family likes to say.

Texture of the brain? Exciting stuff!

I second everyone else. Go with your gut and keep readers like me in mind. I say,have at it!
 

Jacob_Wallace

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I don't see this as a big deal considering your antagonist is a possessed dog. And you already have its undead, decapitated body running around. And I assume you're killing it off at the end?

Also it's a surgical procedure done by vets. Not a psycho chopping its head off for fun.
 

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Tbh, I think your most difficult feat will be to convince an audience that a re-animated decapitated dog has the ability to search for its head and avenge itself.

ETA: Erk! That looks a bit harsh, just sitting there. What I mean is that severing the head is probably not going to be the bit that puts off readers. It's a horror story, after all, and the decapitation is justified. It also sounds reasonably neat -- vet surgery, no hacking and slashing, no whimpering dog, no arterial blood spray tracing the struggle of the dying pooch etc. That part of the story is also based in reality, so it's easy to persuade readers that it's both necessary and accurate. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have the head to remain active. But the part of the story where the rest of the dog is mobile and has a sense of purpose would be the sticking point for me as a reader.

Which wasn't the question you asked, of course!
 
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CharleeBeck

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Horror is horror. Some will turn you away, some will seriously respect you for it and go on to read more of your stuff. You have to make sure, though, that your book as a whole is good enough to pull that off.
 
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