Wish-fulfillment
- Thread starter gothicangel
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I don't have any problem with wish-fulfillment. There's a market for it, so authors would be stupid not to write it. If people want to escape into a relationship with a sparkly vampire, it's great for them that someone's written that book.
In my writing, I don't think there's a whole lot of escapism. I suppose I live an adventure through my books. I wouldn't want to go through what my characters go through, though. I believe in throwing every imaginable obstacle at them.
In my writing, I don't think there's a whole lot of escapism. I suppose I live an adventure through my books. I wouldn't want to go through what my characters go through, though. I believe in throwing every imaginable obstacle at them.
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Have you studied the historical roots of fiction? Myths and folktales are all about the special hero who goes to magical lands, slays giants and dragons, tricks sorcerers, and gets the girl. This is not any kind of new trend, it's a prehistoric human trait to want to consume and create wish-fulfillment stories. This is also apparent in the psychological roots of fiction, childhood pretend play. Young children typically choose roles that fulfill some basic wish; powerful parent, pampered and loved baby or pet animal, wealthy and stylish adult with a credit card and a cool car and grown-up clothes, respected warrior, royalty, witch or wizard, awesome dragon, scary monster, etc.
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Jamesaritchie said:
I would rather read about a weak, cowardly, stupid softie who rose above his faults and made a difference despite them. Try Brent Weeks' 'The Black Prism'. The MC, Kip, is all of the above.
Captain America was a skinny asthmatic before he got pumped up with mystery serum. We root for him because the little guy had guts first. Then he was given the muscle to back it up. Gilmore Hodge is already a big, tough soldier, top of the class, but we don't root for him because he's an arrogant bully.
I think the major problem in this topic is the definition of 'wish fulfillment'. Of course, all fiction is, in a way, wish fulfillment. The hero triumphs in the end, most of the time. I think gothicangel's point is about books where the reader assumes the role of the MC. Twilight and 50 Shades are written so that the reader can shrug into the MC like an old coat. The characters are just vague enough that it's easy to cut-and-paste their roles. Clearly, there's a market for that, and good for them. The writers are laughing all the way to the bank.
Myself, I don't want easy. I want a character who has a powerful enough personality that it imprints on the reader, rather than the reader pouring him-or-herself into the role. I want to feel the MC's plights and triumphs because they grab hold of me, not because I'm pretending I'm them. Yes, my wish is to see the hero triumph, and that, in the end, should be fulfilled. But I'm not wishing to be the hero. That is the difference.
And if it's not? I guess it depends on what you mean by triumph. What is it? Reaching his goal? Surviving
the day even if it means not reaching his goal? What? I mean, imagine the hero accomplishes his goal by
(or at) the end of the book, but there's still no happy ending, in part because of it. What then?
Did he triumph or not? 
I don't dislike wish-fulfillment fiction on principle, but there's one caveat I haven't seen mentioned: if the reader's wishes clash with the story's fulfillment, they could become disconnected from the protagonist. They may stop thinking about the story and start counting the ways the hero is not them.
That said, I also agree with bearilou.
bearilou said:
That said, I also agree with bearilou.
Authorial wish fulfillment is not the same as reader wish fulfillment. Is the author just writing a Mary Sue or Marty Stu? Some genres thrive on these characters. Romances, super hero stories and other SF&F all have occasional versions, some very popular. The truth is some days everyone wishes he were superman or the like. If the author can get the reader to go along with that wish fulfillment and not throw the book across the room....
And, yep. Some of them are cliche. Captain America gets his serum, Peter Parker his spider bite. It's what the writer does with it from there that gives a unique spin. It's also how well the writer has you, the reader, identifying with the character before the change that makes you keep reading to see what happens after.
And if it's not? I guess it depends on what you mean by triumph. What is it? Reaching his goal? Surviving
the day even if it means not reaching his goal? What? I mean, imagine the hero accomplishes his goal by
(or at) the end of the book, but there's still no happy ending, in part because of it. What then?
Well, yeah. Accomplishing the goal is one kind of triumph. So is survival. I'm actually quite fond of stories that have a bittersweet conclusion. Hellboy 2, for one. Liz has to choose between saving the world by letting him die, or saving him knowing he'll bring the end. My favorite kind of stories involve a ton of sacrifice and tragedy, and in the end, the MC is able to claim something that is worth what came before it. Not necessarily 'happily ever after', but it means that the earlier suffering wasn't in vain.
So, you understand their allegorical nature, yes?
*My dissertation was on Scottish and even Pictish folklore.
That kind of reminds me of Phoebe and Cole. Just changing "the world" for her sisters and you got it.
Sometimes the beauty of a story lays in its tragedy. And sometimes,
you just wanna slap the author in the face for ruining it all
I guess there's a time for everything.
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I agree. As the world gets tougher to live in and more and more disasters and financial problems permeate real life, it's nice to get away for a while. It's nice to escape into a world where the hero wins out in the end despite his/her difficulties. Also, the majority of agents seem to agree that an optimistic ending sells better than a pessimistic one. That doesn't mean the MC always gets what he/she wants but it ends in hope.
. "Grog was stalking the rhinoceros when suddenly (I bet they used that word then) the rhino wheeled and charged! And Grog (got all heroic and stuff). The end." Both Grog and Storyteller get an extra ration of rhino liver. Everybody's happy.
cept maybe the rhino...
It's escapist at its purest form. It's not just wish-fulfillment for the writer; it makes the readers feel the same way. I was 15 when I read Twilight for the first time and I loved it. I'd never had a boyfriend so the whole thing with Edward sounded so romantic to me. The whole idea of falling in love and having it last forever? The idea of a man like Edward falling in love with a plain girl like Bella? A plain girl like, as I thought, me?
Of course, it only took me about a year before I realized that Edward was controlling, creepy, and a stalker but it was a great escape for me while it lasted.
Of course, it only took me about a year before I realized that Edward was controlling, creepy, and a stalker but it was a great escape for me while it lasted.
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Unless the rhino achieved a higher spiritual enlightenment from his sacrifice to feed the tribe.
That was amazing. It was like you articulated everything I've ever thought about the old ''torture your character'' adage and then sent me to a magical world that prevented me from doing anything productive for two hours.
I agree - and probably making the mistake of picking up on the two most publicized examples. I think what it boils down to, is the execution. When I think of it the movie The Artist, is wish-fulfillment [wannabe actress rises to A-lister, and snags the Hollywood hottie.
So what you're saying is what is what makes a ''bad wish-fulfillment story'' is that you deem it as being poorly executed, but if it's tastefully executed, it's not one of those ''bad'' books, like Twilight. Is this really about trendy writers and a cliched archetype, or about good vs. bad books?
There are people who love wish-fulfillment, and there are people who love angst tales where everything bad possible happens to the character. You could argue ancestry for either.
If something is an allegory, does that make it any less of a wish-fulfillment story? Recent popular movies contain tales of Knights, Greek Gods, and other ''allegories'' most likely have not been perpetuated for thousands of years due to their allegorical value, but due to some other factor, and for some is probably some level of ''wish-fulfillment.''
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Allegory doesn't make up even half the content of the average myth. There is a lot of literal material in there too. Myths about, say, marriage, are usually about actual marriage. Now, marrying a half-animal person who later gets turned fully human might be an allegory for marrying a foreigner who learns to compromise about cultural practices, and marrying a god might be an allegory for marrying the rich handsome chief of the next tribe over, but the story is still very much about a young single person transitioning through the difficulties of getting married to the state of being happy in that marriage.
Whether this story is enjoyed by young people who are likely to attempt marriage soon, newly-married people struggling with that transition, or older people who wish they had the chance to go back and do better at finding a good mate, that all can be described as wish fulfillment. It also can be described as mimesis, the educational act of playing pretend to prepare oneself to deal with real situations in the future. Envisioning an ideal future is an important part of figuring out what goals you want to aim for in your life and looking at an example of how other people (i.e. characters) got there.
Yes, the other side of things is important too - seeing examples of marriage gone badly wrong and potential mates who should be avoided. But ultimately the instinctive goal of mimesis is learning problem-solving, which means that it's satisfying to read about a problem being resolved happily, and not so satisfying to read about things that don't make anyone happy.
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Pearl? Did I miss something? Pearl who, the character in The Scarlet Letter?
This, this, and more this. I'm all for conflict, interesting twists, even drama, but damn.... I don't want to read an endless, torment-filled novel that only gives me pleasure (if I'm lucky) in the final pages. I want to soar with the characters, get the real feeling that everything will be okay, even if difficult circumstances surround them. GIVE ME HOPE--even if it's doomed.
This is amazingly well-said. To touch more on what you've said... The best examples are Arthurian tales. Pretty much every story is an allegory, but it was also accepted as fact at the time. And not every folktale/myth is an allegory.
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