The Expat/Emigrant Lounge

Fictional Cowboy

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Pleasure to meet you, Blackfish. I hope to give Minnesota one more year before I move. Give me the mountains of Wyoming or Montana any day. I used to love Minnesota when the blessings outweighed the curses. Then again, I don't know anywhere that's perfect and I only see it getting worse. I'm not a pessimist but I am a realist.
 

Blackfish

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Pleasure to meet you, Blackfish. I hope to give Minnesota one more year before I move. Give me the mountains of Wyoming or Montana any day. I used to love Minnesota when the blessings outweighed the curses. Then again, I don't know anywhere that's perfect and I only see it getting worse. I'm not a pessimist but I am a realist.

I'm not a pessimist by nature. I'm an optimist by nature. But, like yourself, I am a realist. And I am completely pessimistic and realistic about things that obviously aren't going to work. I'm pessimistic about doing things that don't work because doing more of what doesn't work still doesn't work. When something that doesn't work just doesn't work, it doesn't work no matter who tries to make it work, so I wish they would stop trying to make it work, because doing more of what does not work, still does not work.

It matters not at all where you go anymore. The State rules. Though there is something to be said for the western States. Nevada was great, outside of Clark County, that is to say. I love the look of Montana, Wyoming, Idaho. I have a nephew living in Montana presently, and he swears by it. Keeps telling me to move on out there. I love a lot of the good stuff Arizona and New Mexico have been doing in the last ten years or so, even if it is being done, for the most part, by a bunch of religious zealots.

I've done a lot of research into the matter, and my findings show that the freest place on earth right now is Hong Kong, China. Yes, you heard me correctly, Communist Hong Kong, China is the freest place I can find on earth right now.

I'm in Thailand as I write this, living under martial law, laughing at Americans who keep trying to tell me they're "free".

I think they need to travel more.

Yikes.
 

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I'd love to hear more about rural Thailand and the infamous expat visa-renewal bus, if you have a blog or something!

I did the "vis-run" by plane to KL and enjoyed a couple of days of pure bliss at not great costs, there being so many deals out there. Prob with doing a visa-run by bus or train is that the extension is limited (is what I understood). Like going to Myanmar or Penang. I choose KL because I have lived in the Far East long time ago and visited many of the places/countries in those days. KL was new to me and I loved it.
 

Creative Cowboy

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The No Pension Pensioner

Me, too. I keep the earnings way, way down, and don't have to file any tax forms and don't have to have anything like buying bullets for the army to go start another unlawful, unkind, unthinking, war of aggression against people who have done nothing to us.

I don't know how the laws work in Canada, but in the US, if you make under a certain amount, you don't have to file a tax return.

I've never been on welfare, nor would I ever, never called a cop, never asked for any kind of government services whatsoever.

I don't work here in Thailand, except to help my girl out once in a while. She runs the family resort business and every now and again I have to perform some tasks and run some errands. Yesterday I had to drive into Bangkok to get supplies from the market. Today I was cleaning fish in the big kitchen before the big Buddha ceremony to take place later on this morning (no, I'm not a Buddhist. Rabid anti-theist here.). Anyway, for the most part, I just keep up my workouts and spend all my time writing and traveling and basically doing whatever I darn well please.

I haven't published anything to date. Working and thinking and learning and writing a great deal on my memoir. It's just something I have been compelled to do for a long time now and I am taking the time and space that I need to get it all done. Lots of time and space here in the Magic Kingdom. Yes, even under martial law. This is the first time I have ever lived under martial law outside of the United States. It's going to be interesting to see what happens and what develops over the next few weeks. Will the military maintain law and order (even though there isn't any to begin with) while this latest round of elections gets underway, or will they only help to plunge Seveneleveland into a catastrophic civil war? Things are already laughable as can be, but now they're actually getting interesting. Stay tuned.
If I were to land in Canada today, I would land penniless and owing someone for the flight. Without a residence I doubt I would qualify for Welfare or any assistance until I go that sorted. I do not believe a homeless shelter counts as a residence. So I am not sure what I would do but my actual realistic best-case scenario is Welfare.

That’s a long drop from being an entrepreneur. Poland is a polite culture but not friendly. Sure they’ll toss me a crust of bread that cost more than the ticket home but I won’t actually get the ticket home. There is a very different thought process that goes on here and it makes me feel trapped, disempowered and even worse on the days I thoughtfully look over my dulled safety razor.

You have a different perspective that should help you write a fine memoir and the wry, even sardonic sense that could make an interesting read. I will be watching the Thailand situation.
 

Creative Cowboy

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And The Horse I Rode In On....

So, the Creative Cowboy and the Fictional Cowboy come face to face at last. ;) I usually don't find other folks using "cowboy" often at all. It's great to see you, Creative Cowboy.

I couldn't help but jump into the expat thread. I used to be one myself and I miss it more than I miss anything else in life. I'm an American in Minnesota now but I've lived in the Czech Republic and Ireland. I miss Prague very much. And, although I didn't technically live there, I spent extended periods of time in Germany, Italy, Africa, and the West Indies.

It wasn't until I moved away from the U.S. that I realized that I'm not a weird misfit after all. I've just never lived, or desired, the American lifestyle. I've never found a place here where I felt like I belonged. I don't mean to put Americans down at all. I am one. What I mean is that my personality type and the way I live is more European by nature. Traveling around Europe, I wasn't out of place anywhere I went. I felt at home everywhere. The most common comment I heard from Europeans was that I wasn't like any American they ever met and would I please move to their countrUnfortunately, with the world the way it is today, the days of freely traveling around the world and settling down in another country are almost gone. Terrorism has every country on edge and the new rules and regulations make it so difficult. All because some people and governments aren't content with what they have and they're infected with greed and the lust for power and control. Way to ruin the world Big Business, World Governments, and Special Interest Groups! Not to mention how they love to blame everyone else for all the world problems except themselves.

The most difficult decision I ever had to make was coming back to the U.S. I thought it was going to kill me at times. I miss traveling. I'd love to experience living in more places like Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Wales, Poland, Costa Rica, Scotland, England, Canada, Norway and Sweden. Hopefully, some day I can.

Howdy Fictional.

Likewise, it is good to see another cowboy ranging around here. I have met a few cowboys around. Many real cowboys are poets. One is a cowboy writer in my extended family chucktyrell.com

I have gone by the handle Console Cowboy but Creative Cowboy is where all my creative projects emanate from. France’s lonesome cowboy is a perfect symbol for me, out drifting or ranging the world. Like the song goes… a long way from home.

I can empathize with your story. I was a tailored suit in my past life: a communications consultant who enjoyed freedom buzzing from one client to another, offering advice and feeling self-important. I miss those days of changing the world with ethical advice and saving people their jobs, but I figured I would have to turn back the clock to find the right woman to marry. So I came to Poland to find a wife for cooking, cleaning, loving, and sundry domestic support as well as someone with whom I could confide my thoughts without being interrupted by a competing story about a business day. I have a mirror for that if I want it.

The Polish expedition did not work out. The longer it did not work out, the longer I stayed hoping it would work out the longer I stayed. Then, one day, I had spent all my financial resources and had no opportunities to survive. Ironically I am still thought of as the rich Canadian by everyone who believes they are owed a living in Poland, which is not the motivation I expected from a stay at home partner.

The fact I am penniless acts as a kind of confirming belief that I am rich. Amazing how the mind works once it takes hold of a particular notion, no?

Not sure how I fit into the archetypes. I have lived on the streets in Warsaw twice. I have begged for food. I get to practice people’s language for a little pocket money but that kind of money is season, sporadic and unreliable. I wear rags & Wellingtons with holes in the toe. I have a woman who gives me a bed and food and free Internet. I have no other family.

Taking stock of my new-normal situation it was obvious I had to develop my writing and publish a bestseller. There is nothing else for me to do, in fact. But no pressure…. :roll:

I also have to deal with emotional issues of Icarian proportions. On the days when the melted wax is not as pliant, I struggle to get my mind out of bed.

It’s a bestseller I just do not have the emotional distance to write. So I write fantasy and crime when I write.

How about yourself, Cowboy? What do you write? How long have you been writing? What took your shitkickers to Czech and Ireland? How long were you residing?
 

Blackfish

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If I were to land in Canada today, I would land penniless and owing someone for the flight. Without a residence I doubt I would qualify for Welfare or any assistance until I go that sorted. I do not believe a homeless shelter counts as a residence. So I am not sure what I would do but my actual realistic best-case scenario is Welfare.

That’s a long drop from being an entrepreneur. Poland is a polite culture but not friendly. Sure they’ll toss me a crust of bread that cost more than the ticket home but I won’t actually get the ticket home. There is a very different thought process that goes on here and it makes me feel trapped, disempowered and even worse on the days I thoughtfully look over my dulled safety razor.

You have a different perspective that should help you write a fine memoir and the wry, even sardonic sense that could make an interesting read. I will be watching the Thailand situation.

I had to laugh at my friends at dinner last night who told me they thought martial law being imposed on everyone was, "a good idea." I just grinned and chuckled at them. "It's a good idea", is something people say when they really have no choice in the matter. It makes them feel better about themselves. I said, "Good idea? Bad idea? What choice do you have? You have cheerful thoughts and desperate hopes or no hopes at all for the future -- while they have machine guns, tanks, bombs, convoys full of soldiers, and and endless supply of ammunition. The place is starting to look a lot like America. In America, they can't use the military on the population, so they worked their way around that, simplified everything, and militarized the police force instead." They frowned, their eyes widened, and they said no more.

I could keep my mouth shut, but tolerance is condescending. I sure don't want to condescend my lovable friends who are so good to me.

The times they are a changin'. No kiddin', eh? Has there ever been a time when the times haven't been a changin'? That is the very stuff, the very essence, the very nature of life: change. Every moment you breathe changes you. There is absolutely no hope of holding on to any one or any thing in this life. I still wonder why people try so hard. I mean, what are you thinking? You planning on living forever? You'd be the first. Good luck with that.

'Yes, there's life after death
'And how we know this to be true
'Is that when you're gone the world goes on
'Living without you
-- Blackfish

You sound like a good candidate for busking. My part-time gig in Las Vegas was busking. I absolutely loved every minute of it. I am a guitar player and played the Strip and Downtown in my spare time for years. Made a shit-ton of money. All cash. Try your hand at busking. You might like it. If you don't play music, you can read poems or create some kind of little gig for yourself. It really is a blast. I'm quite the ambivert, so it came easy for me. I can get on well with the people and make a good time of it. I gave directions, played happy birthday to party goers, took requests, did whatever to make people who were far away from home feel right at home. They paid me well for it. Always look your best and play upscale. Don't play the crappy parts of town. The tips are shit and too many hassles. Say what you want about rich people. They are almost always better behaved than poor folk.

You're right about Poland. It is the same for me, here in Thailand, thought I am not affected by it as much as other foreigners because I live in a rural area with my girl's family. But the truth is, there is no level playing field for you there and there never will be. Just as there is none for me here and never will be. But I don't need to work or be concerned about too much at all, so I could care less.

Being penniless is out of the question for me. I despise it. I have a nice chunk of cash in the bank and in hand everywhere I go in the world, plus a plane ticket back to the United States and solid connections when I arrive there. Money is good. Work is good. Take everything you can get.

When I graduated high school in 1983, I had a crappy little apartment and worked a bunch of boring, stupid jobs to pay my way. At that time, I had been reading a lot of Jack London. I was intrigued by the fact that he left behind his entire fortune to go to London, England and live among the street people there. He had read the slums there were some of the worst and notorious in the world. He spent two years there, bumming. Then came back to the States and wrote about it and made all of his fortune back and then some. That story had a profound effect on me.

In late fall 1984, I put my Kawasaki KZ750 in storage, threw pretty much everything else I had away, and pulled a Jack London of my own. I didn't go to London, but to the Twin Cities and surrounding areas in my home state of Minnesota. I bummed around that whole winter; hitchhiking, sleeping in doorways and abandoned houses and buildings, doing odd jobs for food money, etc.

I didn't take to the whole experience too well. I didn't find anything particularly exciting about it. In fact, I found it all quite boring, for the most part. I spent my days in public libraries, reading and studying, until I was sick and tired of reading and studying. I spent my nights looking for places to sleep and picking up odd jobs. I didn't like the idea of asking people for money. I would rather earn it. And you can go a long way on a little money when you have no financial obligations, no rent to pay, no car, no fuel bill, no power bill, no children to support, and so on. I spent my money on rugged outdoor clothing, gear, and food. that's about it. No one really even suspected that I was just a wanderer.

People like to talk about the homeless and how tough they have it. I don't agree. I was homeless for a Minnesota autumn, winter, and spring, which can be quite brutal. I didn't find anything tough about it. It's not that tough. If you use your brains and a little elbow grease even part time, a guy can accomplish just about whatever he likes. I just thought of it as, 'urban camping.' Lol. Nothing to it.

The truth is, most of the time I looked better than I did when I was living at home with my parents and going to high school. For richer or for poorer, for better or for worse, I was finally in that position in life where I could make my own decisions. And I looked forward to that. I love Freedom. I loved it then. I love it now. Wouldn't trade it for the world. At home, as a pre-teen, I had to wear what my father wanted me to wear, which was his old black leather work shoes he had abandoned. They were two sizes too big for me. He was too cheap to buy me fashionable, appropriate shoes and teach me how to wear clothes. Shirts and pants were whatever garbage he could get out of whatever the cheapest bargain bins were offering. Nothing matched, nothing fit. Of course, the children at school all made fun. In my teenage years however, I took jobs and bought my own clothes and shoes. If I couldn't find any job and didn't have any money, I stole them. I had my own car, my own motorcycle, and I did whatever I wanted. I ended up going out with one of the best looking and sexiest girls in the school for about a year. All the guys wanted her, but she was all mine. Then they were all jealous of me. I kept it simple. Solid, sturdy new shoes that fit, jeans, T-shirts, a jacket, and all the girlfriend goods I could get. "I need love to keep me happy! Baby, won't you keep me, happy!" -- Stones

I always forget that I am wry and sardonic. It comes second-nature to me. I seem to do it naturally. I had a lot of personal problems when I was younger. Especially in my twenties and thirties. I was angry all the time. I was an angry person. It took its toll on me, and left me wry, sardonic, and sometimes just downright mean and unkind. I've always hated small-talk, phoniness, and nonsense. It irritates the hell out of me. And since that is the stuff that makes up most people, well, that really put me in a bind. I didn't know how to handle it. I am doing much better these days. These were some of the things I had to conquer in order to be able to start writing my memoir.

I am still in that pouring out stage. Still gushing onto the computer screen all the little stories and crap I want to recall. My files are being built bit-by-bit.

I realize by now that editing is impossible. I can only do so much. I's still love to find an editor who perhaps has done something like this before, who I can rely on to get the job done and maybe even give me some direction. This is my first project and I haven't got a clue what I am doing.

Meantime the stories are getting written, wryly, sardonically, one piece at a time.

And I am just lovin' every minute of it, to tell the truth.
 

SamuelKristopher

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I miss New Zealand bread. Here in Germany it's either super organic black bread, or American style bread. I just get Semmel instead.

I've lived in Australia as well as Germany, and soon I'll move to Russia.
 

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Hi All

I moved from Manchester in UK to Ohio USA almost three years ago now after meeting my wife on Facebook. When I told the guy at the US Embassy how we met he said "Hmm, makes a change from World of Warcraft".

I've also previously lived in South Wales and Germany. I'm not moving ever again :)
 

Robbert

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Nice thread, thanks! Nice to know that so many others are in the same boat :partyguy:

But then again, I read somewhere …only 3% of the world’s population live outside their country of origin.

I always wanted to live abroad. I’m German born and bred. I left in my early twenties and then spent ten years in the UK, another ten years in Israel, finally setting up residence in Morocco in 2006.

What I loved about good ol’ Germany: whole-grain bread; wine gum; work ethics; the Autobahn and my 1968 Mercedes-Benz 280 SE
Not so much: the bureaucracy; so many things are verboten; trimmed hedges & accuracy...as in lawn edging shears (in that respect, the Brits come in a close second)

What I loved about England: tea; crisps; Indian food; the rolling countryside; people waiting in a queue; the British sense of humour!
Not so much: between 1985-95, the weather was mostly crap; the booze *shakes head*

What I loved about Israel: coffee; the food; the weather; the Kibbutzim; outstanding people (on both sides)
Not so much: road blocks; the constant stream of bad news; the paranoia about terrorists; the narrow-minded diehards (on both sides)

What I love about Morocco: coffee Cafés coffee; the food; the weather; the souks; the stunning scenery; the traditional arts and crafts
Not so much: the (traditional) backhanders; an absence of queues (…!) Yep, whether it’s at the counter in a bank, post office, you name it, no one queues behind you. But if you take a look to your left and to your right :crazy: :D
 

Creative Cowboy

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an absence of queues (…!) Yep, whether it’s at the counter in a bank, post office, you name it, no one queues behind you. But if you take a look to your left and to your right :crazy: :D

Welcome!

Warsaw banned and removed all the open air bazaars during my first decade here. There was even quite a violent struggle at the bazaar as merchants were forcibly removed.

Backhanding here is a sophisticated industry, which is easier to deal with after you accept it. It is like tipping in a restaurant except you do not get any service before you tip so you better have the tip in your pocket!

How are queues handled where you are at? Here people just talk it out. The person entering the area asks who is the last person. Sometimes they argue. This system makes it difficult for me because I do not know the local language but it has never become a problem. Someone will stand up for me in the face of a queue jumper.
 

Robbert

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How are queues handled where you are at?

Badly. Two problems spring to mind:

(1) Whoever is on friendly terms with the person behind the counter is served on the spot.

(2) A missing awareness of a person's privacy; needless to say you'll ask who was last, but on the whole people here don't queue. Everyone walks straight up to the counter and awaits h/her turn. When it's your turn, you'll just have to learn to ignore the cluster of people around you.
 

brasiliareview

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Robbert, have you become an expert negotiator living in Morocco? I haven't had a chance to visit it, but from what I've read bargaining is an essential skill. What was your greatest victory, bargaining for something?

If anyone else has a story to share too, please do.
 

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I'm originally from the US (Pacific NW); moved permanently to the UK five and a half years ago after meeting my English husband at university while I was studying abroad. Now a British citizen.

I never really understood America when I lived there, and understand it even less now. No plans to ever move back! Though I enjoy the odd trip to see my family and eat way too much amazing food (oh, the food...)
 
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PenTeller

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Question for other ex-pats (sorry if this has been discussed before - this is a long thread!): when you write, are your books set in your current country, a country you used to live in/your "home" country, or somewhere else entirely?

I think I would have a difficult time writing from the perspective of an American now, as the voice in my head isn't right...I lost most of my American accent and dialect, so I don't think it would be authentic. May give it a try eventually, though.
 

Robbert

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Robbert, have you become an expert negotiator living in Morocco?

As much as I'd like to answer your question, I'm a wee bit hesitant because this thread doesn't seem to be the right place.

If this is where we introduce ourselves and cheer each other on, maybe we should start a new one where the emphasis is on insights / learning aspects / difficulties...of living in a different culture, how it affects one's writing, one's writing perspective, chosen language etc.?
 

brasiliareview

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As much as I'd like to answer your question, I'm a wee bit hesitant because this thread doesn't seem to be the right place.

If this is where we introduce ourselves and cheer each other on, maybe we should start a new one where the emphasis is on insights / learning aspects / difficulties...of living in a different culture, how it affects one's writing, one's writing perspective, chosen language etc.?

Oops, didn't mean to stretch this thread beyond its raison d'etre. I'd certainly participate in a new thread like the one you suggest.
 

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As much as I'd like to answer your question, I'm a wee bit hesitant because this thread doesn't seem to be the right place.

If this is where we introduce ourselves and cheer each other on, maybe we should start a new one where the emphasis is on insights / learning aspects / difficulties...of living in a different culture, how it affects one's writing, one's writing perspective, chosen language etc.?

Is it? I kind of just assumed this was the the thread/lounge for expats, all conversation welcome. Happy to move conversation to a new thread, though!
 

Robbert

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Okay, bargaining in Morocco. I shall look at it from three perspectives:

Tourists
Of course, they’re easy prey. The problem is that most Westerners think of bargaining as something which is morally reprehensible, i.e. exposing the shop keeper as a greedy person. Understandably, tourists attach more importance to an object’s symbolic value than to its real value: they just buy things for friends and family, or things they don’t really need, or things they have no knowledge of (carpets and jewellery are two classic examples). And what does it actually mean to get something for half of its ‘original’ price…?

Moroccans
Shop keepers are more than happy to make as much money on a Moroccan as they do on a tourist. Of course, easier said than done—and in case it does happen, this person will sure be the laughing stock of h/her community. Two surprising aspects of bargaining: there’s very little talk of actual numbers, it’s all about “scanning” each other and “reading” between the lines; if business was hard but fair (paying a reasonable price), it is not unusual to get an appreciative pat on the back

How I do it
Being able to speak a little Arabic / Berber helps to avoid coming across as a tourist. In routine situations bargaining is not needed. But if I need something outside the usual range…
…and I know the price for it, I won’t pay one Dirham more (which often involves drinking a lot of tea)
…if I don’t know the price but can wait a little, I’ll try to find reliable information (easier said than done)
…if I don’t know the price but need sth. on the spot, I’ll work out the absolute max I’m willing to pay and then stick with it (yeah, drinking a lot of tea)

My biggest bargain ever? My wife. For free!
 

Kaitlin Brianna

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Question for other ex-pats (sorry if this has been discussed before - this is a long thread!): when you write, are your books set in your current country, a country you used to live in/your "home" country, or somewhere else entirely?

I think I would have a difficult time writing from the perspective of an American now, as the voice in my head isn't right...I lost most of my American accent and dialect, so I don't think it would be authentic. May give it a try eventually, though.

I'm an American living in China, and although I sometimes write stories set in China, I'm not very comfortable writing from a Chinese perspective, at least not for my main character. The cultures are so different and even though I've lived in Asia for a total of about five years now, I know I'll always be culturally western. I'm more comfortable writing from the perspective of people from Western countries where I've never lived than I am writing Chinese protagonists. On the other hand, I do have a lot of insight about Asia, it is just through a western lens, so I do like to write characters like myself, westerners in Asia.

I hate bargaining. I only make myself bargain hard because I know the sucker foreign tourists who don't bargain at all are contributing to the Chinese idea that all foreigners are an easy target, and I don't want to be a part of the problem.
 

brasiliareview

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Interesting perspectives on bargaining. In Brazil I speak some Portuguese but it doesn't help me with bargaining. My accent determines my status of them, as opposed to us. So for example at the market:

wife: how much is this?
seller: R$60
wife: I can pay R$50.
seller: no that's too low.
wife: is it made out of gold??

Then they accept her price. Me, quips like "gold" don't work. The sellers hold firm. I come up a little. Seller is firm. I say I'll think about it and start to walk away, giving them the chance to say wait, okay it's yours. But they don't.

So I find a seller offering a bit lower of a starting price, and pay that without further discussion.
 

L M Ashton

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Question for other ex-pats (sorry if this has been discussed before - this is a long thread!): when you write, are your books set in your current country, a country you used to live in/your "home" country, or somewhere else entirely?

I think I would have a difficult time writing from the perspective of an American now, as the voice in my head isn't right...I lost most of my American accent and dialect, so I don't think it would be authentic. May give it a try eventually, though.

I write science fiction and fantasy, so my settings are pretty much always made up. Usually. I have one story that's set in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada - starting in West Edmonton Mall, actually, where I used to work. It's set in the future, though, so it's not the same as it is now.

My stories do tend to acquire local and other flavour. My characters are not all white. Heck, they're not all human. I have a variety. :)
 

Susan Anwin

deep blue electric angel
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Born and raised in Hungary, lived 1.5 yrs in Israel (Jerusalem, appearing in my book) living in Iceland (appearing in my book) in the past 3 years, thinking about moving on to Ireland next year.
 

DjentlemanJoe

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I was born in England, but spent a year and a half in South Africa before coming back home.

It was a mixed experience, in some ways the best and worst thing I've ever done. I'd never change it, and I'd ALWAYS recommend people spend some time living abroad. It gives you so much more perspective on your life.
 

brasiliareview

author of Sweet Bread
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Born and raised in Hungary, lived 1.5 yrs in Israel (Jerusalem, appearing in my book) living in Iceland (appearing in my book) in the past 3 years, thinking about moving on to Ireland next year.

Which language is the most difficult to master?

I was born in England, but spent a year and a half in South Africa before coming back home.

It was a mixed experience, in some ways the best and worst thing I've ever done. I'd never change it, and I'd ALWAYS recommend people spend some time living abroad. It gives you so much more perspective on your life.

Tell us the worst thing! You know, if it's not PTSD or anything. I want to go to SA to see some of the sites of the Cradle of Humanity, if possible, or at least museums of paleo-anthropology like the Transvaal Museum.