The Next Circle of Hell

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LC030308

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I'm also in the same situation as many of you. I completed the m.s. in June 07, was offered representation by agent in OCT, AND now I'm waiting for some finality of my work. I wrote the book I wanted to write, and will stick with it until the end. I have been subbing some short stories around while waiting. I wish everyone well with accomplishing the dream of publication.

SEMPER FI-
 

triceretops

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LC, the important thing is stay busy while your agent is pounding the pavement. I know it's difficult, and I face that every day. I've noticed my output has declined by about 60%. It's that damn anticipation thing going on.

Here's a perk for the agented and soon to be: I've never heard of any literary agent that did not have some contact, affiliation or direct connection with the movie industry. It's one of their little secret treasures they like to keep hidden for as long as they can. Just the mere mention of studio interest is enough to drive many authors into anticipatory fits of glee, and the minute they find out that their book has been sent to a producer or director, they blab it all over the internet. So many times this fact is kept low profile within the agency, with strict adherence to "mums the word."

I said book. Not a screenplay. Yep. Novels can go directly to studio heads/production companies for consideration. That happened to me--three times, with two different agents. In fact, the book can make the studio rounds before it starts the submission trail to the literary publishers. Here's the rub--your agent might not mention the studio or big wig, and that's to protect you. He/she might tell you that your little precious is out there kicking around in movieland, but that's all they'll tell you. This guards against you shooting your mouth off, or contacting that source yourself. You never, ever want to do status checks with movie heads, or publishers for that matter, behind your agent's back. Especially the movie industry, because there's too much at stake going on. It goes without saying, never drive a wedge between your agent and his/her source--you did not cultivate those contacts--your agent did. Just stay out of it and do a lot of praying.

Hint: No agent on earth can be enlightened enough or know about every possible publishing house out there. They have to watch the industry, look for new openings, startup houses, editorial changes, and the birth of new imprints from the majors. It's a constant learning and growing process. Agents are seldom idle. If you've just gotten wind of a promising contact that might fit your book (like a resonating glove, hah), for gawd's sakes, don't be afraid to alert your agent and tell them "Hey, look what I found! Whadda you think?" Contrarywise, most agents are receptive to industry info. In fact, mine told me that if I ran across any promising leads, to get ahold of him at lightspeed. This scenario is not you doing your agent's work--it's your agent trusting your judgement and allowing you some decision-making leeway on this magical submission tour.

The first thing my agent asked me was "Do you have any favorites?" Well, bust my buttons. Just so happened I did and sent the names and addresses to him. He was receptive and got them right out. Of course he can disagree, and he has a few times. That's where his expertise shines through--he'll know if a cetain house has just filled up their fantasy slots for the next two years because he's heard it straight from the editor. I would have never known that. We also have a rule that Baen is the last gasp, for instance. That's because those stinkers can take more than a year to get back on a full, and last time out for me, it was on an exclusive basis. So he'll concentrate first on the highest paying houses with the fastest turnarounds--it just makes economic sense for him to do it that way.

Somebody asked me in a PM how many houses my agent hits for me and for how long before giving up. This is kind of subjective and there are no hard and fast rules. Your agent gets requests for fulls, just like we get requests for partials and fulls. They solicit with phone pitches, e-mails, fax, face to face meetings, or hardcopy. It depends on the genre a bit, too. He/she is unlikely to get as many requests for a SF or western than they would for a really good romance or fantasy. But...all things considered in a perfect world, there's probably about 25 to 30 worthwhile houses out there that pay good money and have great contracts. So I go by my own 7-7-7 rule, as it pertains to my agent. He'll get seven full requests then send out that batch. He expects answers within three months from those seven, and tacks on another month for unforseen contingencies. Four months later another batch of seven are sent out. Then the last batch, which totals about 21 houses (out of 30, because he pulled about a 65% response). So after a year, if I'm damn lucky, I've had about 20 full reads. If there's no sale we go into a huddle for the next six months, and that's where I get to contribute more input into the process. If we haven't sold the book after 18 months, then it's my sandbox and I take over complete control. At this stage I'm only likely to find a POD outfit willing to buy the book. Whether he wants to get involved in a sale at this stage, is his decision. If he doesn't, I don't hold it against him.

My genre right now is urban fantasy, and this is about the normal submission procedure for me. Every agent is different. I've heard of agents that query blast every possible source out there and cop as many as 30 full requests within a matter of weeks. So 30 fulls in hardcopy or email are sent out then and there. No fuss or messing around. Bam. I've also heard of agents who are content to send out three to five fulls and then chill until every last one of them is rejected. So, you're milage will vary.

Gak--I've been blabbering again!

Tri-red-shifting.
 

LianeW

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Thanks for the insights, Tri. :) My first novel went out on submission about two weeks ago, and I've been scouring the Interwebs desperately to get some idea of turnaround times before I start pestering my agent to give me a clue as to when I should expect to hear back. The waiting's not nearly as bad as it was in query hell, because it's all out of my hands now, but... still...

Film adaptations? Sheesh. I'd hate to have my stuff adapted for film. The odds of getting a Lord of the Rings are much, much lower than getting a Fantastic Four or Jumper. And even LotR got a godawful adaptation before a good one, which the author never lived to see. It's not worth the heartache of watching helplessly as it comes out all wrong.
 

Calla Lily

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Liane, does your agent send you monthly submission reports? Mine does. So the only time I bug her is if she forwards me a rejection with reasons (she just marks the form rejects on the sub report) or if I hear of a new lead.
 

stormie

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Tri and everyone--thanks for "listening" and your sage advice.

triceretops said:
But I'm a little perplexed that your original agent did not pursue the small and medium houses.
He said he and the agency don't, as a practice, submit to any of the houses smaller than, say, S&S.

The book my former agent was submitting, I am subbing on my own now to mid-size publishing houses. The third book is the one I'm querying agents with. (My first was pubbed by a very small publishing house. So tiny I doubt it even makes a blip on the publishing screen.)

I think if I had conversed more with my agent on what I didn't think would work on the second novel, rather than just going along with what he wanted, the book would have been much better.

Live and learn, and never stop learning. :)
 
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LianeW

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It's only been two weeks, so no. She let me know which houses she'd sent it to, and I don't think there've been any responses yet. I need to touch base this afternoon anyway (just to send along a partial + synopsis for my next project) so I figure I'll ask my other questions then.
 

donut

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ugh, this is the most depressing thread *ever*! Last time it was active, I didn't have an agent yet, so I didn't read with much attention... now I'm hanging on every word.

When I was unagented, I thought I'd finally be able to relax once I had an agent, because that's the hard part, right? ;) Now I'm realizing I still have so much further to go.

The worst thing is my friends and family don't get this -- once I told them I had an agent, they figured I was as good as sold. It will be so demoralising to have to tell everyone, "yeah, I had an agent, but the book didn't sell and he gave up on me." I don't think any of them realize how common that is.

Everyone thinks I should be celebrating now, but I've got this awful sense of impending doom... and I've only been on submission a week! All I can do is throw myself into my WIP and try not to think about it...
 

stormie

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ugh, this is the most depressing thread *ever*! Last time it was active, I didn't have an agent yet, so I didn't read with much attention... now I'm hanging on every word.

When I was unagented, I thought I'd finally be able to relax once I had an agent, because that's the hard part, right? ;) Now I'm realizing I still have so much further to go.

The worst thing is my friends and family don't get this -- once I told them I had an agent, they figured I was as good as sold. It will be so demoralising to have to tell everyone, "yeah, I had an agent, but the book didn't sell and he gave up on me." I don't think any of them realize how common that is.

Everyone thinks I should be celebrating now, but I've got this awful sense of impending doom... and I've only been on submission a week! All I can do is throw myself into my WIP and try not to think about it...
But for all the waiting, all the nail-biting, you HAVE an agent. That's a big step in the right direction. Means you have something there. So celebrate!
 

maddythemad

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Actually, I found editor rejections way nicer, because they always talk about how awesome you are and then reject you, instead of just slipping a "NO" into an envelope. Maybe because they don't want to piss off your agent?
 

maddythemad

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And Donut, a good agent will stick with you even if your first book doesn't sell. :) (But, yes, I can sympathize SO MUCH with telling people about your agent, and then having to be like, "Well... er... nothing is happening with that novel, actually." People I knew actually put BETS on which date it would sell by, which I really really really really really didn't want them to do.)
 

triceretops

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Uh, Donut...your agent is not going to dump you. Look at this way, you are about to communicate back and forth with somebody that adores your project. This is a time when you're going to find out a lot about each other--it's a journey of discovery. Don't tense up on this. This is a time to keep your spirits up. All this waiting stuff is natural and part of the process. You've graduated from query hell, and you know what that was like.

Getting the idea = panic
Writing the book = panic
Finishing the book = panic
Query Hell = panic
Partial and Full requests = panic
Landing an agent = panic
Selling the book = panic
Good reviews and sales = panic

You see, it never really stops. But look at the list and see where you are as opposed to where you began.

Donut = progress.

Heh, heh. Writers have earned the privilege to bitch about everything.

Tri
 

Calla Lily

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Getting the idea = panic
Writing the book = panic
Finishing the book = panic
Query Hell = panic
Partial and Full requests = panic
Landing an agent = panic
Selling the book = panic
Good reviews and sales = panic

Heh, heh. Writers have earned the privilege to bitch about everything.

Tri

:ROFL:Tri, that was great. Never thought I'd be wishing for panic...but I am.
 

donut

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Thanks, Tri -- and everyone. I can always count on you guys to talk me down from the edge. I do have faith in my agent, and I know he wouldn't have taken me on if he didn't believe he could sell my book... Still, it's tough not to fixate on the horror stories.
 

Irysangel

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I think it's an agent preference thing. I know I have friends that have agents that won't even sub to some of the smaller houses at all - Juno is not even on their radar. Why? Because the money they would make - 15% of $500 is $75.00 - isn't worth it to them because of the time it would take to deal with the editor, negotiate the contract, etc. That's why a lot of agents pursue only the big houses and I don't necessarily blame them.

And for an agent to stop submitting after hitting the big '7' isn't all that unusual either. Though a good agent will know different contacts, different lines, or even try a different angle (can this book be YA instead of adult).
 

Doug Johnson

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  • Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over editors and worrying about them made our lives unmanageable
  • Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
  • Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God
  • Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
  • Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs
  • Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
  • Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings
  • Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
  • Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
  • Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it
  • Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out
  • Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other writers, and to practice these principles in all our affairs
 

popmuze

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Actually, I found editor rejections way nicer, because they always talk about how awesome you are and then reject you, instead of just slipping a "NO" into an envelope. Maybe because they don't want to piss off your agent?


Exactly! Which is why editor rejections are even less revealing than agent rejections. An agent who rejects you probably never expects to see you again. While an editor has to deal with the same agents over and over. That's why the only rejections I take seriously now are the ones with..."if you do this and this I'll publish it...or at least read it again."
 

rachel.moore.hawkins

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Man, am I glad I found this thread! My agent is planning on sending out my m for its first round of submissions either next week or the week after; she said she wants to "clear the decks" before she starts sending it out, so even though patience is not one of my virtues- ;)- I'm glad she wants to devote as much attention as she can to it. Still, I have to say that this feels more nerve-wracking than Query Hell, namely because it's like it's soclose but not quite there, you know? Plus, I was ridiculously lucky in my querying experience (less than 2 weeks to find an agent), so I'm sure that fate will now make me wait for the damn thing to sell for at least a year or two, ha ha!
 

triceretops

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Dear Chris:

this from Wizards of the Coast:


Weʼve had a chance to read and discuss Chris Stevensonʼs Lupus Strain, and unfortunately Iʼll have to pass. Iʼm a little nervous that the next werewolf novel anyone publishes will be the one after the last one anyone buys, and though interesting it didnʼt blow me off my feet the way Iʼd need it to to get past that fear.

Best of luck with it, though, it does have a lot to recommend it!


Oh, well. Clearly this editor is werewolf shy, and I don't blame him. Roughly 50% of the editors are receptive to new (unique) werewolf/vamp books, and the other half never want to see their doors darkened by them ever again. I will say this: werewolves and vamps are not dead. Along with dragons, they are the only popular crypto creatures that have huge fan bases, clubs and monsterous forums (pun intended) dedicated to them, from a huge demographic audience.

Sad, but not defeated.

Tri
 
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