The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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realitychuck

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I wonder what would happen if you sent them an obviously plagiarized manuscript? Say renaming "Huckleberry Finn" to "Rafting Down the Mississippi," doing a global search and replace (optional), and sending the result to them as your own. Would the accept that?

Might be an interesting experiment.
 

Richard

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Well, that would only work if they could be guaranteed to know Huckleberry Finn (for instance, if one of the Triumvirate of Doom had announced it was their favourite book, they'd really have to eat crow).

Also, that's in the public domain, so they could pretty much do anything they want with it anyway - hence things like http://www.customizedclassics.com/, where you can have yourself inserted into Romeo and Juliet (happy ending also available) and claim that it's just a reimagining, or a way of making the classics available to a whole new generation or whathaveyou. Much more amusing to imagine them reprinting a Harry Potter novel as 'Wizzard Skool' or similar.
 
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Ed Williams

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Now here's how you don't want to handle rejection...

Rejection is something that a person must take in stride. I have always been able to accept the opinions of the low life, unintelligent, back stabbing Ba****ds that have rejected me, with dignity and understanding. It is after all, the price we pay when we allow stupid people to read our work. They can think whatever they like as far as I'm concerned because I have all their addresses and can cause them major trauma later on, when they least expect it. In general, I think I handle it pretty well altiough I do sometimes, lock myself in my room for several days at a time and buy tissue by the case. I am a better person for it and will be even better than that when I get even with all the stinking slobs that have taken my name and the name of my book in vain.
Wouldn't you love to be the editor that gets to look at his manuscript?
 

Sher2

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Ed Williams said:
Wouldn't you love to be the editor that gets to look at his manuscript?

Oh, my Lord! Did that come off the PA boards?:confused:
 

Ed Williams

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Uncle Jim, you may very well be right...

...but I wouldn't have chanced it, given the potential for more than one interpretation of the contents, and yes, it came off the PA boards...
 

Savannah Blue

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Ed Williams said:
Wouldn't you love to be the editor that gets to look at his manuscript?

"...the opinions of the low life, unintelligent, back stabbing Ba****ds that have rejected me, with dignity and understanding."

Well, this ranks right up there with the quote from Mr. Clopper about holding your PublishAmerica book in your hands and sneering at the literary world. Not a very bright thing to say.
 

keltora

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Sheryl Nantus said:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7916.htm

Message:
I took a look at this "Travis Tea" and the book, "Atlanta Nights," through Google, and it took me to the Lulu.com website. Lulu is a POD that publishes books for free using POD technology, and charges for "special" items, such as cover art, hardcovers, etc. (Please don't mistake this for criticism of Lulu, as I believe if a book is good, it deserves to be published and there happen to be many avenues to that end, running the gamut from whopping-advance publishers to do-it-yourself vanities.)

Back to my research (which only used up about 10 minutes of my valuable time): it seems "Travis Tea" is simply a bunch of Sci-Fi/Fantasy writers who are members of the SFWA (Science Fiction/Fantasy Writers of America) and they were offended when PA "insulted" their craft by saying (and this quote is from their website): "...that SF & F authors are 'writers who erroneously believe that SciFi, because it is set in a distant future, does not require believable storylines, or that Fantasy, because it is set in conditions that have never existed, does not need believable every-day characters.'"

Therefore, these Sci-Fi/Fantasy writers concocted a scheme to "expose" the big, bad PublishAmerica for the...um...what?...publisher-that-is-willing-to-give-a-chance-to-books-that-might-have-been-passed-over-by-other-publishers...that it is. (Shame on you, PA!!)

This brilliant, mind-blowing, daring plot worthy of 007 himself consisted of...hang onto your garters here..."writing" a really bad book (what a feat of ingenuity!). This book, "Atlanta Nights," was sent to PA in the hopes of embarrassing the publisher when it was accepted for publication. (It was accepted, but not published by PA. It was published by Lulu...a POD.)

Nevertheless, the Sci-Fi/Fantasy group calling itself "Travis Tea" are trying to get whatever mileage they can out of this. They are trying to get people to buy their bad book. They are trying to call attention to their "exposé" of the wicked PA. And now, because they apparently have more time than talent, they are trying to embarrass PA by posting stupid, bad reviews of its authors on Amazon.com. This last shows the moral character that they have (or lack), because it is rude and unprofessional to attack a fellow writer. Constructive criticism regarding art is one thing, but these are personal attacks aimed, not at the writer's product, but at the writer's publisher, of all things! I find it hard to believe the SFWA, as a professional organization, continues to allow this to happen in its name.

Another thing: If you look at "Travis Tea"'s other reviews, every last one of them contains a slam against PA and a plea for people to buy this "Atlanta Nights."

So, people, let's not spend any more time on this foolishness. Those Sci-Fi/Fantasy writers can continue to try to drag us down to their level by posting garbage, and we'll just continue to have Amazon take out the trash! Once again: [email protected] (thank you, Pierrette!).

Chins up and pens poised!
**********
:rolleyes:

obviously none of these people read the paper...

wonder how long this'll stay up.

LOL!

Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

DRAGON'S TONGUE forthcoming from Meisha Merlin in the Summer of 2006. Preview a copy at http://www.embiid.net.

 

keltora

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victoriastrauss said:
Hey, fake Travis, the Los Angeles Community College system isn't exactly jail (though it's all in the way you look at it, I suppose).

Yes, I can see your ISP.

- Victoria (a REAL Travis)

P.S. I TOLD y'all the fake Travis monitored this board.

Victoria, you are a Godess!

I didn't think they had internet access in prisons either, especially since I deal with requests from prisoners all the time. Most of them actually hand-write their letters because they are not even allowed typewriters in some prisons.

Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

DRAGON'S TONGUE forthcoming from Meisha Merlin in the Summer of 2006. Preview a copy at http://www.embiid.net.

 

keltora

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XThe NavigatorX said:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7916.htm

It never ceases to amaze me how people will ignore facts that don't suit them but will still point to the same source and treat certain passages as scripture. So now, there isn't one Amazon Slammer. It's a shadow wing of the SFWA.

I can just see them now. Robin Hobb sitting in a dark room, wearing a Harry Potter hat, and laughing manically as she posts yet another bad review.

I wonder how long before they figure out the real enemy is their publisher...

Then again, not all acorns become oaks. Some get eaten by the squirrels and the bears...

Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

DRAGON'S TONGUE forthcoming from Meisha Merlin in the Summer of 2006. Preview a copy at http://www.embiid.net.

 

DaveKuzminski

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I mentioned earlier that little offshoot called Title Wave Management formed by some PA authors. Well, now they know they've been given a negative recommendation from P&E and wrote asking that I remove it because they're not a literary agency. I wrote back to them and explained that their description of what they do is exactly what a literary agency does, so now I expect some of you might see messages about that in the PA forum. If so, give me a holler.
 

Ed Williams

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Wanna bet on how long...

....this will stay up?

Message:

Enjoyed your post and agree with it, but I was taken aback when I read -" they were offended when PA "insulted" their craft by saying (and this quote is from their website): "...that SF & F authors are 'writers who erroneously believe that SciFi, because it is set in a distant future, does not require believable storylines, or that Fantasy, because it is set in conditions that have never existed, does not need believable every-day characters.'"
I write fantasy and dark stories, and yes some of the characters and things that happen are unbelievable, but that is what makes it a fiction and fantasy. One thing I always do is try to make my charactere believable. I am surprise that PA would say something like this because they publish some of my work.

Ray
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Wonder what the job title and job description are for the person(s) that monitor the PA boards? Director of Truth Deflection?

It came from this thread: http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7916.htm
 

AC Crispin

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Tina, please forward the document

tinasamuels said:
Just received a four page reply from PA that the BBB in Maryland forwarded to me. I'd think it'd be of interested to ann or victoria, perhaps Dave. Who ever is in charge of gathering evidence PM me and I'll send it to you via snail mail.


AND WHERE ARE YOU DEE WITH THAT NEWS!!!!

tina

Hi, Tina, I sent you a private message, but I thought I'd follow up here. Please send what you received to me at [email protected]

and cc Writer Beware:

[email protected]

Thank you!

-Ann C. Crispin
 

T42

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Letter From Barnes And Noble

I had written Mary Ellen Keating yesterday and also followed up with a phone call. (I had to leave a message) I asked them about PA and this is the reply I got just now. For those that don't know she is the Senior Vice President of B&N.

Dear Memory McDermott,Your letter to Mary Ellen Keating was forwarded to me for a response as my department manages the business relationships Barnes & Noble has with new start up publishers, and self-published authors, like yourself. All the titles PublishAmerica produces are available to Barnes & Noble customers either through orders in the stores, or online via Barnes &Noble.com (www.bn.com). The books are printed (on demand) when they are ordered, and shipped to the customer's home or back to the store for customer pick up. The terms for Publish America titles are not competitive in the trade bookstore marketplace: the books are non-returnable, the discount is not favorable, and most of the titles including "Tea for Two" Nature's Apothecary are about $5.00 over the going price for titles in the category. These factors in combination inform our decision not to stock the titles in the stores, and for the stores to decide not to do an event with the titles. I hope this information is helpful.
Marcella A Smith
Director Small Press & Vendor RelationsBarnes & Noble, Inc
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011
 

roach

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Which begs the question...

DaveKuzminski said:
I mentioned earlier that little offshoot called Title Wave Management formed by some PA authors. Well, now they know they've been given a negative recommendation from P&E and wrote asking that I remove it because they're not a literary agency. I wrote back to them and explained that their description of what they do is exactly what a literary agency does, so now I expect some of you might see messages about that in the PA forum. If so, give me a holler.

What do they describe their company as if not a literary agency?
 

T42

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underthecity said:
Well, this certainly contradicts everything PA has ever said about B&N.

Hmm.

utc
utc,
Everyone has always known that PA lies and I am sure they will try to turn this around somehow but this is straight from B&N which is a good company and I think in the long run B&N is not going to stand by and let PA take them down by using them as the #1 promotion scam to reel in innocent writers. No matter what PA wants to say, B&N is not sleeping with the enemy.
 

Jaws

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RealityChuck asked about taking a PD book, doing some search-and-replace, and submitting to see if PA bites.

That system has been tried; in the "real" publishing world; and it had such discouraging results that trying it on PA wouldn't necessarily show any difference. One attempt in the mid-1970s using a then-contemporary work (with the author's permission) and one attempt in the late 1990s using a public-domain work whose punctuation was updated from the 19th century to look more like "chick lit" had roughly the same results: Silent rejection 2/3 of the time, rejection without specific comment on origin 1/6 of the time, an rejection indicating some recognition for the remainder… except, in each study, one editor who explicitly recognized the "submission" and rejected it for that reason.

Remember that rejections usually don't state every reason for rejecting a work!
 

DaveKuzminski

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They even provided me with their URL at http://www.freewebs.com/titlewave so you can read it for yourself. The following are what convinced me to identify them as a literary agency.

"We are a fairly new company founded solely for the purpose of getting writers and authors everywhere where they want to be-Published. Our team is comprised of mainly published authors who are looking to represent other seasoned and up and coming authors through our experience in the industry. We don’t just pitch manuscripts; we polish them up, write proposals on behalf of the author(s), write synopsis’ and professional bios (when needed), and also help with tips for marketing after a publishing deal is secured. We DO NOT pitch manuscripts to self publishing companies, only reputable traditional publishing houses and presses who pay, at minimum, industry standard royalties."

"A lot of literary agents/agencies pitch manuscripts with no up-front costs, and then take a percentage of all royalties generated from a books’ sales, which is fine, they deserve it, but this can add up to thousands of dollars if not more. We operate by charging a one time fee (to cover all costs of pitching, follow-ups, etc.) and then pitch the manuscript until it hopefully gets published. There is no time limit on pitching a manuscript, but our average time so far is 2-6 months. To date we have successfully landed publishing deals for two new authors- "Goodbye Angels" By Roy Adams and "Silent Screams" By Drie Tierney, which are both due out later this year."
 
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realitychuck said:
I wonder what would happen if you sent them an obviously plagiarized manuscript? Say renaming "Huckleberry Finn" to "Rafting Down the Mississippi," doing a global search and replace (optional), and sending the result to them as your own. Would the accept that?

Might be an interesting experiment.

No; it'd just be wrong.
 

Jaws

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Cue the Cellos!

Hey, guys, can I politely—with my toothy sharkly grin in your metaphorical faces—suggest that y'all lay off the "fake Travis" issues in public for a couple of days? I need to let the h/e/l/p/l/e/s/s/ s/w/i/m/m/e/r/s/ parties in question get close enough to b/i/t/e/ manage in my charming sharkly way?
 

DeadlyAccurate

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I know you guys have looked at PA's "Why PublishAmerica" page, but I thought this was interesting:

The majority of our books that are sold retail are sold in physical brick and mortar bookstores. Tens of thousands of people and hundreds of our authors across the nation have purchased PublishAmerica books from physical brick and mortar bookstores.

From what I can tell, this is a flat-out lie. Why don't the authors make more of a stink about this? When the author of Angel Assurance mentioned her books being available in stores, people jumped all over it and asked how that happened, because no one else could get theirs in stores.

PublishAmerica has a full-time, full-fledged marketing department whose sole mission is the growth of the company. PublishAmerica sends review copies and book release announcements, gratis, to reviewers, sponsors and attends seminars, industry trade shows, works on direct mailing campaigns for each individual book, and sends out 10-15 press releases about our new authors each day. See our Up In Lights section for examples of the national press that many of our authors have enjoyed.

Again, are they really doing this? The authors are always talking about all the marketing they have to do, and none of them brag about all the marketing PA does on their behalf.

PublishAmerica can remove the stigma of paying to be published. With PublishAmerica, you will have the very important distinction of having your next book ACCEPTED BY A TRADITIONAL PUBLISHING COMPANY.

You'd think the difficulty in getting their books into stores would be a sign that somethiing is wrong. PA is implying that by publishing with them, they are going to make you legitimate. That would seem to me that the authors who publish with them want to be seen as legitimate authors (as most of us do.) So why do so many on the boards get this "those other publishers are all hoity-toity, and we don't want to be like them" attitude?

Some of our authors who have previously been published by a traditional publisher still encounter the same difficulties when submitting their second or third books, especially if sales of their first books did not meet the publisher's expectations. We are proud to say that we will take a fresh look at your next book, regardless of your prior failures, or successes.

I do understand that successive books can and frequently are rejected by the publisher, but unless your first book sold for a million dollar advance that wasn't earned back, wouldn't most authors get another chance? (I admit to ignorance on this subject, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
 

NancyMehl

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Thanks...

T42 said:
utc,
Everyone has always known that PA lies and I am sure they will try to turn this around somehow but this is straight from B&N which is a good company and I think in the long run B&N is not going to stand by and let PA take them down by using them as the #1 promotion scam to reel in innocent writers. No matter what PA wants to say, B&N is not sleeping with the enemy.

Memory,

Thank you for posting that letter. It supports what others have been saying all along. I wish we could post it on every page of this thread until every PA author has read it!

Good job!
 

Kevin Yarbrough

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keltora said:
The title of the story is "Beelzebubba..." It came up after a discussion with one of my editors (the one who edited BUBBAS OF THE APOCALYPSE and FOUR BUBBAS OF THE APOCALYPSE), so it's planned for a future chapbook that will include me and two other authors with the same house.

The premise of my story is "He don't want your soul...he's just after your beer..."



Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

DRAGON'S TONGUE forthcoming from Meisha Merlin in the Summer of 2006. Preview a copy at http://www.embiid.net.





That reminded me of the movie "Bubbahotep". Have you seen it? Hilarious.

T42, I was never served with a notice. It was a strongarm tactic to make me shut up.
 
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