"Old" People Writing for Teens V

Hapax Legomenon

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Oh man I love setting. Love, love, love setting. Love architecture. It's so fascinating.

The things you love tend to work their way into your work, so if you love the place you're writing about, I think your setting turns out better.
 

CoffeeBeans

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I've almost finished revision on the SNI, and setting is my least/favorite thing.

Most of the book is spent running from one planet to the next. Five planets, and seven cities. I tried really hard to make each of them unique/distinct, but then I get to three lines about how the bouncer at the bar has tattoos that mark him as part of a subculture from another planet.

I love these bits because I'm really into my world. I think other people will hate these bits, because why does anyone care about the bouncer's tattoos?

also, just to throw back, I love "Schrödinger's Manuscript" and welcome back EMaree! Welcome Adipose! :e2bouncey
 

CoffeeBeans

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Coffee, I love those kinds of descriptions! They'll make for great cosplays once your book gets all famous :)

As a cosplayer, this response makes my day.

Back when, I used to forum RP. When I'm worldbuilding, I try to leave a little room for someone to imagine some OCs in there... you know, assuming anyone ever reads any of them... :tongue
 
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Stiger05

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Casualrungal, congrats on all the interviews! I hope you land one of the positions!! I don't so much have great time management skills as a lot of downtime at work, haha. It's write a blog post or peruse boredatwork.com. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though!

I'm with Mel on setting. As a reader, I like enough to ground me in the scene and still let my own imagination work. As a writer, it's a tough balance. I tend to under-describe characters and over-describe place, so that's something I'm working really hard on with this ms. I think a few specific details in an otherwise generic place make a scene come alive, though. You may not go into detail about a house or living room's layout but be more specific about the charred floorboards salvaged from an old building and how the character likes to run their finger over the burn marks when upset. Things like that allow me to picture the setting, but still arrange things in my own head.

Thanks! Dual POV stories are NO. FUN. to query! :)

With you. I'm on sub with a dual POV now and it took a while to nail that query. I recommend the same thing I told Hap: pick one (usually the one who narrates first) and write the query from that POV, then reference that it's dual at the end. "YA contemp told from MC and other character's POVs."
 

SoCalWriter

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So, I've seen a lot of you talking about how dual POVs is difficult query, and I'm wondering if you all could elaborate more on why that is? My WIP has dual POVs, and I have never written a query before, so I'm just wondering what the issues are so I can be thinking about it ahead of time.
 

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Cheering you all on!
So, I've seen a lot of you talking about how dual POVs is difficult query, and I'm wondering if you all could elaborate more on why that is? My WIP has dual POVs, and I have never written a query before, so I'm just wondering what the issues are so I can be thinking about it ahead of time.

Generally queries should be in one POV. Splitting between multiple POVs means that the details you need to really present the character(s), concept, conflict, and stakes don't get to shine because you're introducing the conflict and character for more than one person, all within the same amount of space as you would for one. But your story was written about multiple people, and assuming they're equal in the novel, sacrificing one for the query can be a difficult task.
 

Sage

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I have names for the major characters in my magical realism book, and that's pretty exciting for me. Now if only they had a plot.
 

SoCalWriter

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Generally queries should be in one POV.

Really? I follow a lot of agent blogs and twitter accounts, and I have seen this issue asked several times and the agents all seem to say that your query should cover both and not focus on just one of the characters. In fact, one I was just reading said this exact thing when asked about focusing on one character's POV for the query: "your query should focus on both main characters, in order to best represent the entire book."

So, yeah. A little confusing. I mean, I am a long way off from writing my query, but I feel like there is so much conflicting info out there and I feel like you only have one shot with each agent, you know?
 

Sage

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That's very surprising, since I've always heard, in QLH (of course) and from agents, that a query should focus on one character. It's possible that they've changed their minds on this in the past couple of years when I haven't been following agents quite as much, but it's what I've always heard, and the above reason is why.

ETA: Not to be too confusing, I mean that the query should cover all main characters, but only be from the POV of one.
 
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Alexandra Little

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I think it's one of those "rules" meant to guide people who are new at the process. If you novel is, say, a romance, it should cover the two people involved on the romance. If there are two main characters in any genre of novel, I imagine the same suggestion applies.
 

Alexandra Little

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Hmmm. See, mine is a dual POV romance, so it feels so weird to only focus on one person's narrative arc.

I'd look up romance queries specifically then. I don't have access to my bookmarks at the moment, but I'm sure Kristen Nelson has an example up on her blog of a romance novel query. I know Miss Snark had a good example of a dual pov fantasy query up on her blog.
 

Sage

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Oh, actually, I don't usually look at romance novel queries, but I did read recently that dual POV is normal for them. (But YA romance is different from adult romance as a genre, so I don't know about that)

I have queried an urban fantasy novel with two main characters, each with their own POV--in fact, they were actually a split personality--and the advice was the same: pick 1 POV. And that was me coming in, saying, "I know the rule, but for this unique case, does using 2 POVs work, and if not, tell me why?"

In theory, any "rule" can be broken if it's done well, and if it works with the book. I've queried with a rhetorical question (a well-known "no-no") and gotten great results, but for most of my novels that wouldn't work. There are reasons behind the rules, and knowing those reasons is important when you're writing queries, particularly your first one. But as PuttPutt's excellent thread points out, if you have a winning query, it doesn't matter if it broke the rules. The problem is that you never know what element might hook an agent. It might be a phrase or an element you mention in your query or the voice or your title. The best you can do towards knowing if a broken rule is likely to work is the natural reaction in QLH, but you'll probably also get a mention of the rule, even if people like how you broke it.
 

Stiger05

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I tend to listen to Janet Reid when it comes to query writing and she recommends one POV for the query. Here's an example she praises on Query Shark.

One big thing to consider in this debate is how long you want your query to be. If you write it from multiple POVs, it will have to be longer in order to fully get the story of both protags in. Also bear in mind that more and more agents are reading queries on their phones and mobile devices, where even short paragraphs appear long, so brevity is even more desirable now than it has ever been.

Ultimately, though, go with what works best for you and your story, and remember that you're never locked in to using just one query. It's perfectly fine to try five agents with a two POV version and five with a one POV version and see which works best.
 
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wampuscat

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Setting. Ugh. I want to love setting. When I was a kid, I made up this whole little circle of people and their town and what not. I intend to do that with my writing too, but I get caught up in the writing and fail at the setting architecture bits. I'd like to do more worldbuilding, since I want to set multiple books in the same somewhat fictional area.

CONGRATS, CR! I hope all these opportunities pay off for you. The job with the agent sounds amazing. I generally enjoy my dayjob, but I sometimes wonder what opportunities I might've found if I'd put more time into considering the future.

Christabelle, :Hug2:. I haven't had time to pop over to QLH, but I'll try to. FWIW, I think your query started out light years ahead of my first attempts. I thought you were on the cusp of turning a "good straightforward query" into "I WANT TO READ THIS NOW."

I have to admit, I'm glad I've never queried a multi-POV MS, but all the advice I've read points toward focusing on one character and his/her story and just making sure it's intriguing enough for someone to want to read the book. I remember a query in QLH for a book about several characters. I think there was a 7 deadly sins theme and each storyline represented one. I think it's in the successful queries thread now. Let me see if I can dig it up. It might be helpful.

ETA: Found it! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8218384&highlight=written#post8218384 (But there are a handful of multi-POV queries in the successful queries thread.)
 
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RaggedEdge

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I tweeted a couple pictures of the water up and down if you want to take a look. Sounds like interesting stakes for your ms!

Stiger, when I hit your Twitter link it takes me to my Home page, not your page. So I couldn't see the pics. But I did see the Google Images page in the other link. That looks like a bucolic spot. :)


On dual POVs:
My WIP is one POV but I'm still considering making it two. I've never writtten dual before and I've shied away for some of the reasons in this thread. But when I wrote up a mock query for it as dual POV, I liked this approach:

I wrote the first paragraph from the female MC, since she starts the story (and she has the most at stake). But I gave the second para to the male MC, because he comes in the plot where the first para ended. And he throws the 1st MC a big curve ball that they then tackle together. I don't know but it seemed an appropriate way to introduce character, stakes, who's in the way, and begin telling what they do about it all. They both have a character arc, they both want something, they both have to face the bad guys to get want they want, etc. I've seen jacket copy that reads like that, although I understand the query is a different animal. Just something to think about. The critters in QLH are realizing the 'QLH query style' isn't the only valid style. Clarity is what's key. I think it depends on how much of the plot the two characters have in common. But again, I'm no expert on this! ETA: I forgot to add, that query had a third para too in which I bring the revelation of the male character forces the female to face a difficult choice.
 
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Sage

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Speaking of dual POVs, I'm really stumped about the POV for my NaNo novel. I'm kinda tired of juggling POVs, and it's been a while since I did only one. There are a lot of good points to using the POV I want for this novel (Colbie). I don't want the POV character to ever "hear" the teddy bear, which is harder if I'm sometimes in the POV who uses the teddy bear as an adviser. Also, I like sticking with the girl who can't recognize faces.

But I'm not sure a) her voice is different enough from my usual female POV voice, b) her POV will portray the love triangle (of which she is not the central figure) the way I want to, and c) her voice will give me the right feeling I want for this novel/setting/genre. That C is related to A & B.

I can switch those traits between Colbie and Jie (and it would kinda be hilarious if Colbie had to constantly be consulting with the teddy bear for Jie's sake because she's so not a teddy-bear person), but the narrative and emotions I feel when thinking specifics for the novel is coming so naturally from Colbie. I mean, I really only know what happens in the opening, but it's all from Colbie's POV.
 

jtrylch13

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Casual - Your job hunt sounds like exhausting fun. Interning for a lit agent would be awesome, especially if you get paid! Good luck.

Christabelle - I commented on your query the other day, and I agree with Becca and Lenore X. Once people start seriously diverging on opinions, it might be time to just go with what you want. I was okay with the split POV, it just needed a little focus, but I can see using one POV too. It's up to you and what you want. I think your query attempts are pretty good. Picj what you want and eventually critters will focus on what you can fix within the paramaters that you set for yourself.

So I started over on my synopsis. I'm going for cut-and-dry and boring, just to see if I can get it down to a more manageable size. Then I'll add a little voice if there's any room. I liked my first attempt way better, but I guess I don't want to overwhelm an agent with length.
 

RaggedEdge

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So I started over on my synopsis. I'm going for cut-and-dry and boring, just to see if I can get it down to a more manageable size. Then I'll add a little voice if there's any room. I liked my first attempt way better, but I guess I don't want to overwhelm an agent with length.

jtyrlch - I really like this article on writing a synopsis. It says it 'probably should be dry.' But there are other good tips, too. I could make mine drier and probably bring it into the one-page limit but until someone insists it be a page, I'll keep my 1.5-page. ;) Also by the same guy: a sample synopsis and a link to many more.

Casualrungal - just wanted to chime in with how happy I am for you! I hope you get the paid position, but any position sounds like a step in the right direction. Best of luck!
 
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Sage

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Editor rejected TM :(

On the plus side, I can work on aPB and LG now without wondering if I'm going to be doing more revisions.
 

jtrylch13

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I tried really hard to make each of them unique/distinct, but then I get to three lines about how the bouncer at the bar has tattoos that mark him as part of a subculture from another planet.

This sounds totally interesting to me! I love sort of random colorful things that create a world.

Personally, I prefer an author give me an IDEA of the setting and then let my imagination fill in the blanks.

Yes! I don't want every detail. I have an imagination. Let me use it! On the other hand, I do love to create setting for my own novels. I just have to be careful not to go to far.

You may not go into detail about a house or living room's layout but be more specific about the charred floorboards salvaged from an old building and how the character likes to run their finger over the burn marks when upset.

Yes on this! Finding interesting ways to present info is great.

I have names for the major characters in my magical realism book, and that's pretty exciting for me. Now if only they had a plot.

Story of all my ideas right now. Characters, world, no plot!

I feel like there is so much conflicting info out there and I feel like you only have one shot with each agent, you know?

This is why I stress over every word, every comma of my query. I've spent so many hours researching agents, their preferred queries, how to format an equery, etc. It's a lot of work! No that I'm complaining. I love it. But it's a lot of work. :)

I thought you were on the cusp of turning a "good straightforward query" into "I WANT TO READ THIS NOW."

I agree!

My novel is triple POV, but since it is mainly in one POV I only went with the MC's. Having read Christabelle's query, I thought she pulled it off well.

Sage - I'm sorry about TM. That stinks.

I missed quoting someone who said that QLH is starting to understand that the QLH way of writing a query is not the only way to write a query. I totally agree with this. My first two attempts with I Have No Name queries over the past year garnered attention from some of the better known squirrels in there, and not the good kind of attention. They ripped me apart. None of them critiqued my current attempt. I feel like maybe they are sticking to queries in genre they write, maybe? Though they weren't incorrect about my query, it can be hard to take advice from people who don't write your age group or genre. I liked having other YA writers help me iron out my current query.
 

jtrylch13

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Oh, and thanks Ragged for the links. I'll check them out.
 

jtrylch13

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Ragged - Checked those links. I've read them both before, but helpful to review. I'm definitely shooting for shorter right now. I wish he would have written synopsis of books instead of movies. It would have been a bit more helpful, though same principle applies. Interesting thing to note, he says two pages double spaced, and as far as length that's a good guide, but to email you have to single space it with a space between paras anyway. A lot of the info in QLH on synopsis I think focuses on how to write a paper synopsis in terms of format and length, but so many accept or expect email queries these days it would be great to have some info on that. i found a few and came up with my own process, so maybe I'll share in there.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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Just wanted to say that I got my first acceptance today. My short story "With Polish" will be appearing at Every Day Fiction on October 24th.