Introspective chapters

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sheadakota

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I am editing a novel that has an antagonist that is slowly sliding into insanity- he has a childhood filled with trauma- his family died in a fire when he was ten- he spiraled down and attempted suicide until one therapist broke through to him.

flash forward- he finds love- until she too is taken from him ( dies in accident) he has a mental break and decides to systematically kill everyone he thinks is responsible for her death-

Anyway- I have a few chapters- maybe two where it is just him speaking to his delusions and images of his dead wife- being introspective- he is a psychiatrist and he recognizes the slide the delusions for what they are, but he doesn't care- he embraces the insanity-

So- my question- finally- would a chapter where a character is basically talking or thinking deep thoughts to himself be dull? To me it fully rounds out his personality and explains why he does ( or doesn't do ) a lot of things. it is a thriller so action is required but this is the first time I have indulged in getting this deep into the bad guys head. these chapters are admittedly slow. but full of choice tid bits.

Any thoughts?
 
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Brightdreamer

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Couldn't say for sure without seeing it. Some authors can pull it off, and some can't. The fact that you yourself admit they're slow isn't necessarily a great sign, but it's all in the execution. (Is there really no way to slip those particular choice tidbits into the rest of the story? Must they be isolated in chapter-length soliloquies?)

I'd ask your beta readers what they think. It could be that your writing is interesting enough to pull it off, or it could be that these darlings need to die.
 

sheadakota

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That's my thoughts right now - cut them and try to incorporate the tid bits in other places- But they do so deliciously show his insanity-
 

Kolta

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Maybe his slow decline into insanity would better be illustrated by such instances gradually increasing in frequency and intensity as the story progresses (if it would allow for that, can't say for sure from here) instead of being slotted into whole chapters and getting all explain-y about why he does what.

What's even more interesting than getting into such a character's head is how exactly what's going on his head immediately affects the actions he chooses to carry out. I think those things side by side, these deep thoughts and how he uses them to justify what he's about to do, would be more effective in rounding out his personality than simply letting these long periods of talking to himself and just thinking stand on their own.

These delusions slowly slipping into everyday life might lend a little bit of reality to the idea that a lot of lines are starting to blur for him. Placing such things too far apart may dilute the effect you're going for. This kind of thing shouldn't look neat and tidy.

Hope this helps.
 

sheadakota

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yeah, actually that does help a lot- Thanks very much!
 

rwm4768

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Time for the patented useless answer. It depends on how well you write it.
 

sheadakota

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I should probably add that the book is under contract. My editor is also undecided on whether to keep them in or toss them- I am stopped cold on this one particular chapter. On one hand I feel it adds texture and depth and on the other it creates a bit of a sagging middle.
 

Jack McManus

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I am editing a novel that has an antagonist that is slowly sliding into insanity- he has a childhood filled with trauma- his family died in a fire when he was ten- he spiraled down and attempted suicide until one therapist broke through to him.

flash forward- he finds love- until she too is taken from him ( dies in accident) he has a mental break and decides to systematically kill everyone he thinks is responsible for her death-

Anyway- I have a few chapters- maybe two where it is just him speaking to his delusions and images of his dead wife- being introspective- he is a psychiatrist and he recognizes the slide the delusions for what they are, but he doesn't care- he embraces the insanity-

So- my question- finally- would a chapter where a character is basically talking or thinking deep thoughts to himself be dull? To me it fully rounds out his personality and explains why he does ( or doesn't do ) a lot of things. it is a thriller so action is required but this is the first time I have indulged in getting this deep into the bad guys head. these chapters are admittedly slow. but full of choice tid bits.

Any thoughts?

It sounds like it is presented the same as any other chapter of dialogue, if, as you say, he is "... speaking to his delusions and images of his dead wife ..." Not a bad thing when done well, which if your editor is on the fence, it is done reasonably well.

I think if some hints could be placed in early chapters showing him retreating by degrees into his delusions, priming the pump so to speak, then a whole chapter may be more satisfying.
 

Brightdreamer

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I should probably add that the book is under contract. My editor is also undecided on whether to keep them in or toss them- I am stopped cold on this one particular chapter. On one hand I feel it adds texture and depth and on the other it creates a bit of a sagging middle.

Well, in that case, all else being equal, my vote would be to pare it down or dump it. Texture is nice, but sags aren't, and if texture for texture's sake creates a sag... JMHO. (Again, though, I haven't read it. Can you get a trusted beta to break the tie?)
 

sheadakota

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I wish- I have a few non-writer betas, my writer betas are too busy with their own projects at the moment. I could post the chapter in question in SYW though- ( it would be fine with my publisher)
 
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RAL

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I wish- I have a few non-writer betas, my writer betas are too busy with their own projects at the moment. I could post the chapter in question in SYW though- ( it would be fine with my publisher)

I'll take a quick gander over there ... At least until the wife bat descends from the sky to send me in to put the four year old to bed!
 

RAL

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Sorry ... Didn't see it up over there.
 
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Jack Asher

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I am worried that, judging from the synopsis of the character arc, you don't know more about mental illness then you have read in comic books.
 

sheadakota

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I am worried that, judging from the synopsis of the character arc, you don't know more about mental illness then you have read in comic books.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm old with alligator armor for skin, so I can handle that. However, might I implore you to please be a tad gentler in those opinions? There are tenderfoots all over this board who might indeed take a comment like that personally. I actually was not asking about my character arc and I gave a ten-second description of the character in question- beside that we are a community here - we should support one another. not tear one another down.

writing is such a lonely and often misunderstood endeavor to begin with I see no reason to be mean spirited or hurtful to one another - and whether you intended it to be or not, your comment could have been misconstrued as such. I am confident that I have not portrayed my character in a comic book style- but if I were someone else a fragile ego or a potential talent may have been seriously hurt.
 

Namatu

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I am stopped cold on this one particular chapter. On one hand I feel it adds texture and depth and on the other it creates a bit of a sagging middle.
It sounds intriguing. Perhaps the scenes merely need some tightening up to maintain pacing.
 

Jenkki

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I would find such a chapter (especially more than one) kind of strange in a thriller. Is he ever arrested at some point, interviewed by a police psychologist? Does he have a therapist or even someone he could talk to about his issues.

Another way to frame it might be scattered journal entries, evidence introduced at trials, etc.

Congrats on the contract!
 

sheadakota

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I think i have it figured out- it is difficult to construe an entire novel by what I've described- this is also the 4th book in a series so the protags are all well developed, but the middle- ahh that middle- kills me every time :)
Thank you all so very much for your wonderful advice and input!
 

BethS

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Even an introspective chapter has to go somewhere. It needs to be a progression. Something needs to change by the end of it, for better or worse.
 
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Jack Asher

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Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm old with alligator armor for skin, so I can handle that. However, might I implore you to please be a tad gentler in those opinions? There are tenderfoots all over this board who might indeed take a comment like that personally. I actually was not asking about my character arc and I gave a ten-second description of the character in question- beside that we are a community here - we should support one another. not tear one another down.
You haven't allayed any of my fears. Your use of "insane" could be construed as offensive itself, but I've chosen to assume it's simply ignorant. You haven't told us what the character is suffering from, his symptomology, pathology, or diagnosis. You only say that he has "a mental break" and somehow this is supposed to make him kill everyone.

Aside from the repugnant stereotype of a mentally ill person becoming a killer (we are in fact much more likely to be the victim of violent crime), you haven't given us any indication that you understand mental illness, its treatments, or the mentally ill.

And if you want offensive this:
But they do so deliciously show his insanity-
made me want to smash my monitor.
 

Reziac

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Lois McMaster Bujold does this in Mirror Dance. There are a couple chapters that are mostly Mark's internal breakdown arguing among its component parts. It works great because it's established that Mark is borderline to start with and stressed to the max right now, and we're ready to see some internal churn (which also serves to introduce ... ah, I forget if it's just the nameless one or all of them).
 
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