The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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NancyMehl

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Great job, Jenna!

JennaGlatzer said:
I know who you are.

You are so misguided. What you're doing helps NO ONE, especially you. Lashing out at PA authors is not just wrong, it's asinine. Pretending you're Travis Tea is a blatant attempt to polarize this and make PA'ers believe that we hate them and want to see their books fail.

It's gone too far.

Remove all your reviews by tomorrow or I will soon make sure that everyone else knows who you are, too.

Note to all: this is NOT someone who is welcome here in any way, and not a PA principal or PA booster. This IS someone who desperately needs a psychiatrist.

Wow. My fake "Travis Tea" review is gone, Jenna. I didn't even have time to contact Amazon. Thank you!

I would certainly like to know who it was. I think they should be exposed. They did a lot of damage and should face the consequences for their actions.
 

Kevin Yarbrough

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Sher2 said:
Holy Crappola! Me, neither. I only go check out those boards to see if anybody's come to their senses yet, and I have to be well fortified with coffee, cigarettes, and Ibuprofen before I can stomach it. :Huh:
Sherry, midol works wonders for that. You should try it. Have a smoke, take a few midol, wash it down with some Captain Morgan and you will be good to go. The liquor will make everything funy and the midol will stop you from getting cramps laughing...or crying.
 

NancyMehl

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Whoops...

Jaws said:
Hey, guys, can I politely—with my toothy sharkly grin in your metaphorical faces—suggest that y'all lay off the "fake Travis" issues in public for a couple of days? I need to let the h/e/l/p/l/e/s/s/ s/w/i/m/m/e/r/s/ parties in question get close enough to b/i/t/e/ manage in my charming sharkly way?

Sorry. We were writing at the same time, Jaws.

I have great respect for you and appreciate everything you've done for all of us. You're the best.

Shutting up now....:Hail:
 

AnneMarble

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realitychuck said:
I wonder what would happen if you sent them an obviously plagiarized manuscript? Say renaming "Huckleberry Finn" to "Rafting Down the Mississippi," doing a global search and replace (optional), and sending the result to them as your own. Would the accept that? Might be an interesting experiment.

Actually, submitting something that's not in the public domain would be even more interesting. After all, they already showed their lack of knowledge of copyright with at least one of their covers.... But that would be tricky legal territory for the sender as well. I guess you couldn't sign the contract on that without coming away with dirty hands yourself. :(

I wonder what would happen if someone submitted a book published by one of the PA powers that be?...
 

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Kevin Yarbrough said:
That reminded me of the movie "Bubbahotep". Have you seen it? Hilarious.

T42, I was never served with a notice. It was a strongarm tactic to make me shut up.

Oh, yeah... Joe Lansdale wrote the short story from which the movie was adapted, and Joe rocks.

And the movie rocks too.

Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

DRAGON'S TONGUE forthcoming from Meisha Merlin in the Summer of 2006. Preview a copy at http://www.embiid.net.

 

T42

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bikrpreacher said:
T42, thanks for the email.
Jenna, I did a search on bikrpreacher, as per an email from T42. I don't know if someone is using my username and then a pen name for the travis tea reviews or what is going on, don't have a clue of what you are talking about, have not tried to do anything wrong here and would never put a bad review on a book. here is the link from where I searched bikrpreacher

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=sr_rt_low/002-9689628-1988820?index=stripbooks:relevance-below&field-keywords=bikrpreaher

This is the second time you have chosen to say something publicly, when you should have checked with me privately. I really hate it that you either know something that I don't or you didn't check anything out first. You obviously have something against me. I'll come here for the pages on publishing, looking for writing work, and I'll go to other threads, but I'm through reading and posting on this one.
I have said before that I'm not here for a popularity contest, but I'm not here for you to slam either. One thing that is NOT good for the cause is fighting against each other.

I have enjoyed being here and meeting everyone, but find it interesting the things that can be said, talked about, laughed at, yet I am the one you single out. I have no clue as to why this idiot travis has taken a liking to me, and is using my name, if they are. But how can you say this is a fake travis, yet say I give bad reviews...guess you need to take class on couth Jenna. Sorry, but you are out of line.

Chris,
I don't think that anyone is picking on you. I emailed you because I wanted you to check out what I was seeing concerning your username here and what everyone else is seeing.
Remember not so long ago, my second day here you too accused me of something. Everyone is on edge because of PA's "bad tactics" and all the rumors.
I did not run because of what you thought. Buck it up girl and be a woman about this. If you are not guilty of anything then you have no reason to isolate yourself from everyone.
I'm sure Jenna has her reasons for what she said and was not meaning it as a "personal" attack but one of concern for everyone here. Take it as that and work it out.
 

T42

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Kevin, concerning the "served with a notice". I assumed you weren't. PA should be called on this behavior. (I should learn how to spell) To me, they are the one who has committed a crime and continues too. ( I should also learn how to use too, to, there, their and on and on):)
 

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Quote:
Rejection is something that a person must take in stride. I have always been able to accept the opinions of the low life, unintelligent, back stabbing Ba****ds that have rejected me, with dignity and understanding. It is after all, the price we pay when we allow stupid people to read our work. They can think whatever they like as far as I'm concerned because I have all their addresses and can cause them major trauma later on, when they least expect it. In general, I think I handle it pretty well altiough I do sometimes, lock myself in my room for several days at a time and buy tissue by the case. I am a better person for it and will be even better than that when I get even with all the stinking slobs that have taken my name and the name of my book in vain.
Wouldn't you love to be the editor that gets to look at his manuscript?
Ed Williams said:
Wouldn't you love to be the editor that gets to look at his manuscript?
Hmm. I think I have, Ed. Numerous times. In some cases they even write back telling me what an idiot I am for not "understanding" them or their story. My standard reply is an apology for confusing them to be a professional and assurances that it won't happen again.
 

NancyMehl

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Chris...

bikrpreacher said:
This is the second time you have chosen to say something publicly, when you should have checked with me privately. I really hate it that you either know something that I don't or you didn't check anything out first. You obviously have something against me. I'll come here for the pages on publishing, looking for writing work, and I'll go to other threads, but I'm through reading and posting on this one.

Chris,

I'm not big on pleading with people to stay on any forum or thread if they don't want to. We're all adults. If you don't want to be here, that's your decision. However, something that was said earlier is true. People are on edge because of many reasons - all of them beginning with PA. I have personally tracked people down who have launched Amazon attacks - and revealed them months before others realized who they were. One woman finally had all her reviews deleted from Amazon because of her hijinks. A lot of PA authors still don't realize that she was writing the bad reviews they were receiving. However, I may have pointed the finger at the wrong person this morning based on one word. Sometimes, we tend to get into a frenzy with this kind of stuff - and innocent people can get hurt.

I encourage you to shrug it off and stay with us. The way you handle things may not be my way, but it doesn't mean that I don't respect your drive and passion.

I hope you stay. But it's up to you.
 

JennaGlatzer

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Chris, and I will say this in public because I feel it's important: This is what I'm referring to: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/A3GF6V94GB/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

It appears that you wrote the first one yourself, no? And if so, the others are yours, too... I hope I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like. I hope you do correct me. I didn't say anything horrible to you-- all you had to do, if that's the case, was to say, "No, Jenna, that wasn't me," and I would have said, "Okay, sorry I misunderstood."

My "couth" is what stopped me from questioning you in public in the first place when I realized that you were the very same person who was acting as a plant in a private anti-PA group, then took *MY* private e-mail to someone who was to appear on NBC and posted my contacts' info publicly on PA's boards. I worked hard to get that appearance set up, to aid in the efforts to show the public what PA is all about, and if they got flooded with e-mail saying "PA is great!" I had to worry that they would start believing, "Oh, well, it's obviously not hurting these people, so why should we report it as a scam? Let them have their delusion in peace." You could have derailed my efforts, and you broke the trust of everyone in that group-- most of whom are here now.

I asked you about this privately and agreed to give you a fresh start. I was, however, very surprised that you would have the nerve to show up on MY boards without so much as an acknowledgment or apology that you had just tried to blow the hard work I was doing weeks earlier. You were a plant then, so why was I supposed to believe you weren't a plant now if you didn't even acknowledge that there was anything wrong with what you did before?

Trust is earned. I'm now supposed to trust that you went from being an ardent PA supporter who would work against us to being totally on our side in a matter of a few weeks. I do not know yet whether you deserve it, and what I see is a lot of self-righteousness when a little humility might be in order. You've been fighting this fight for a couple of months now, while many of us have been actively in this fight pretty much since PA opened its doors. Show a little respect for that. You are not the first person here to take action-- not at all. There has been a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes here for some time, much of it by volunteers who have nothing to gain from this except the satisfaction of helping writers.

The only other time I said anything "negative" to you was when Uncle Jim asked you to stop going off-topic and posting chit-chat and your very next post was more chit-chat and a comment like, "Oh, we've been warned now!" So I deleted those remarks and asked you to take the chit-chat elsewhere... politely.

You've been shown a warm reception by the very people you tried to work against. Don't push your luck.
 

bluwinteryfox

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This that and other things

Every PA person who is unhappy with PA goes through different stages. Not everyone is at the same place. Some people lash out because they are angry, either at PA or themself for being so stupid to go with them. Some are embarrassed because they got scammed.

I for one cannot understand a lot of the anger and hatred I see for PA. Yes I’m upset with their lies, yet I’m equally upset :Headbang: with myself because I signed the contract. I also cannot understand why anyone would be embarrassed. That makes no sense to me.

I had a book signing at an independent book store. They purchased 10 copies of my book. At the signing, I sold 7, which for that store is a good signing. I had several people ask me about my publisher. I told them PA isn’t a real publisher, but more on the order of a vanity press. I know I saved two people from going with PA.

I really think if anyone has a problem or an issue with another poster, they should do it privately. Remember PA does read this board. I’m sure they are thrilled whenever they see dissension :box: within the ranks.

I should have realized Jenna would have done this privately first, since you are a classy lady.

I started to reply to several posts because they got me angry. I waited until I cooled down then realized that I wasn’t as upset as I first one. Remember, think before you speak.

Now I'll step off of my :Soapbox:
 
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realitychuck

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Jaws said:
That system has been tried; in the "real" publishing world; and it had such discouraging results that trying it on PA wouldn't necessarily show any difference. One attempt in the mid-1970s using a then-contemporary work (with the author's permission) and one attempt in the late 1990s using a public-domain work whose punctuation was updated from the 19th century to look more like "chick lit" had roughly the same results: Silent rejection 2/3 of the time, rejection without specific comment on origin 1/6 of the time, an rejection indicating some recognition for the remainder… except, in each study, one editor who explicitly recognized the "submission" and rejected it for that reason.

Remember that rejections usually don't state every reason for rejecting a work!
The difference is that PA is likely to accept it. :)

The experiment proved nothing about mainstream publishers -- the rejections could have been due to recognizing the plagiarism, but in PA's case, an acceptance would show they didn't read the work.
 

realitychuck

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bluwinteryfox said:
Every PA person who is unhappy with PA goes through different stages.
I've been thinking that Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's stages of dying are appropriate:

1. Denial ("No, it can't be. PA is a traditional press.")

2. Anger ("Those bastards lied to me!")

3. Bargaining ("Please, Larry, can I have my book back?")

4. Depression. ("I'm an idiot for getting scammed.")

5. Acceptance. ("On to my next book.")
 

Sheryl Nantus

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realitychuck said:
I've been thinking that Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's stages of dying are appropriate:

1. Denial ("No, it can't be. PA is a traditional press.")

2. Anger ("Those bastards lied to me!")

3. Bargaining ("Please, Larry, can I have my book back?")

4. Depression. ("I'm an idiot for getting scammed.")

5. Acceptance. ("On to my next book.")

well, I can tell you that I went through all of them... I'm not afraid to say it.

:(

but onwards and upwards!
 

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Priceless1, yer telling me that...

Hmm. I think I have, Ed. Numerous times. In some cases they even write back telling me what an idiot I am for not "understanding" them or their story. My standard reply is an apology for confusing them to be a professional and assurances that it won't happen again.
....this is a legitimate statement from this PA author, and that this is their standard operating behavior? Uncle Jim, and myself to some degree, wondered if maybe it wasn't a put on of some sort. Oh man.....
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Ed Williams said:
....this is a legitimate statement from this PA author, and that this is their standard operating behavior? Uncle Jim, and myself to some degree, wondered if maybe it wasn't a put on of some sort. Oh man.....

yes, but don't forget that most of the authors have been convinced by PA that their story is THE best thing since sliced bread - after all, it went through that tough submission process, right?

:(
 

T42

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Samples From PA

T42 said:
I had written Mary Ellen Keating yesterday and also followed up with a phone call. (I had to leave a message) I asked them about PA and this is the reply I got just now. For those that don't know she is the Senior Vice President of B&N.

Dear Memory McDermott,Your letter to Mary Ellen Keating was forwarded to me for a response as my department manages the business relationships Barnes & Noble has with new start up publishers, and self-published authors, like yourself. All the titles PublishAmerica produces are available to Barnes & Noble customers either through orders in the stores, or online via Barnes &Noble.com (www.bn.com). The books are printed (on demand) when they are ordered, and shipped to the customer's home or back to the store for customer pick up. The terms for Publish America titles are not competitive in the trade bookstore marketplace: the books are non-returnable, the discount is not favorable, and most of the titles including "Tea for Two" Nature's Apothecary are about $5.00 over the going price for titles in the category. These factors in combination inform our decision not to stock the titles in the stores, and for the stores to decide not to do an event with the titles. I hope this information is helpful.
Marcella A Smith
Director Small Press & Vendor RelationsBarnes & Noble, Inc
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011

What I am showing you are a few samples of the letter that was written to a PA author and accidently sent to me by PA:)

Dear Mr. *********
Your accusatory tone is way out of place, especially given that you, and your lawyer, obviously know very little about the publishing industry.

For an attorney to make such a statement with such an obvious lack of knowledge about PublishAmerica or the publishing industry, is sheer nonsense, and does nothing but clarity the attorney's credibility. We will expect an apology from you, and from your attorney, and we will not be ceasing anything.


Author questioning the book and mortar bookstores:
Yes, it is true. Actually, like all traditional publishers, our books are available through ALL bookstores throughout the US and most of Europe. Just last week, for example, Barnes and Noble, by far our largest customer, ordered 456 books from PublishAmerica. The week before that it was 512 books, the week before that 448. Each and every day, brick and mortar bookstores purchase PublishAmerica books roughly 335 times

My letter~The do not use that tone

Dear Mr. McDermott,
Please do not address us in such a tone. Apparently you did not receive our email of 2/4/2005. We will resend it now, and we would be interested in your reaction.

Thank You,

PublishAmerica Author Support


This was part of my "we will not terminate your contract" letter.
I also got the spill about B&N which I have gotten many times before.
I will now send a copy of my letter from B&N to PA and ask that they think again about not terminating my contract and many others since they have put themselves in the position of ruining B&N reputation by false advertizement, promotion and association with a company such as themselves.

Maybe I could get them on the fact that they keep calling me Mr.:wag:
 

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Sheryl, you have a way...

...with words, dear, let no one tell you otherwise. Is that attitude really that prevalent throughout PA?

And now, to this, per our friends in Maryland:

Just last week, for example, Barnes and Noble, by far our largest customer, ordered 456 books from PublishAmerica.
Let me get this straight - PA claims around 11,000 authors, and Barnes and Noble ordered 456 books? That's pathetic, even more pathetic when you think about the fact that those orders probably came in on about 50-75 titles. The books aren't selling, and PA is bragging about it? And here's something else to raise the "pitifulness factor" even further, check this out from the Barnes and Noble website:
Barnes & Noble, Inc. (NYSE: BKS), a Fortune 500 company, is the world’s largest bookseller, operating 840 stores in 50 states.
So basically there was about half of a PA book ordered for every Barnes and Noble bookstore in America last week. Folks, that's not pathetic, that's outright STOOGIAN....
 
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Renee

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Ed Williams said:
....needs somebody to put their shoe up his or her heiny just as far as it can go. Deliberately slamming anyone's books for the sheer sake of doing so is wrong, simply wrong. I despise PA, but I would never advocate taking it out on their authors - they have huge obstacles sitting out in front of them anyway, and for someone to do something like this is simply disgusting. PA will gain sympathy from actions like these, not be taken down, whoever you are, wise up! I sincerely hope that it's not someone from our boards who's responsible, and I don't think that's the case - if it proves out otherwise, they need to be banned forever, as our stance on something like this should be uncompromising.

I agree, Ed, very well said.
 

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Ed Williams said:
...with words, dear, let no one tell you otherwise. Is that attitude really that prevalent throughout PA?

And now, to this, per our friends in Maryland:

Let me get this straight - PA claims around 11,000 authors, and Barnes and Noble ordered 456 books? That's pathetic, even more pathetic when you think about the fact that those orders probably came in on about 50-75 titles. The books aren't selling, and PA is bragging about it? And here's something else to raise the "pitifulness factor" even further, check this out from the Barnes and Noble website:
So, basically there was one point something PA books ordered for every Barnes and Noble bookstore in America last week. Folks, that's not pathetic, that's outright STOOGIAN....


If there are 840 bn stores and only 456 PA books ordered last week, wouldn't that be less than one book per store? lol Or, you could say, half of all the bn stores have one PA book in them.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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back to the pricing thread...

thanks, Ed...

meanwhile, back at the "how expensive is my book going to be?" thread:


Message:
The local snotty Barnes and Noble manager told me a PA paperback would cost at least $27.00. I was shocked but then went to Border's. They had a few PA books on the shelf costing $19.95. Guess Barnes and Noble was wrong. That woman was very anti-PA, she actually referred me to IUniverse. I still would rather it cost less than $19.95, because I know when I am looking for a book and find two similar books, I go for the cheaper one.

LAdams
2/23/2005
08:01:01

RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
My book is but 166 pages and retails for $19.95. I have not had a single person flinch when they heard the price. I have never had to discount the price to get someone to buy.
If you have a good book people wll pay without question.
If you don't believe in the quality of your book how do you expect others to do so.
At an auction for charity before Christmas my book went for $90.00.
Belive in yourself and your work...do not undersell.
Just my 2 cents worth :)
Peace,
Larry~
http://www.larrya.us

jck
2/23/2005
09:04:00
RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
PA books are premium books because you will sign all your copies. Readers can come on here and see the authors on the message boards. They can link with your web site to contact you personally.
Compare this to buying a cheap paperback with no personal contact with an author.
PA has also allowed you to use the cover art for merchandising. Many give away free bookmarks etc with their books.
A person will always spend a little more for added value. The price of you book is the least of your problems so do not worry about it.
john

twoclots
2/23/2005
09:38:02

RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
Sorry folks, I have to totally disagree, you may sell a few dozen, hundred books at $20 or 12 uk pounds, but the mass readers buy books at a max of $10 or 7.5 UK pounds, AND the vast marority will not go above £5 pounds, damn where's that pound sign,or $7. Myself and wife included. Now no way are we knocking PA, by publishing for free they have allowed us to retain a healthy marketing budget which could mean high volume sales, IF the price is right.which would be good for PA and every author connected to it. The quality of our product is not in question, and is a very enjoyable read in a novel style. Advance publicity already supports this.But we don't want to sell a few thousand books, the market appeal of Two Clots in a Camper could reach hundreds of thousands. Are we wrong to be content with 'small potatoes, is not yours, the orginal land of oppertunity. If JK Rowling (Harry Potter) had gone with PA would she have only sold 50 copies????
No offence to anyone intended.
Cheers
Steve (Linda does not know I've written this)
www.twoclots.com

twoclots
2/23/2005
10:22:45

RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
Whoops, cardinal sin, I cannot believe how bad my spelling was in that last reply, serves me right for rushing to do a reply in a break instead of waiting until I got home.
Sorry
Steve, again.
PS Larry, John, if you have met or signed copies to everyone who bought your books we are not talking high volumes here are we?
Also if I sign every copy, that implies that they are all ordered from my personal supply?
I now await the flack, or hopefully some support!

twoclots
2/23/2005
10:34:37

RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
Larry, out of interest, your book is currently on Amazon UK for £8.55 or about $15.39. just thought you might be interested, it also rates 4 stars.
Cheers
Steve
I'll shut up now!
Fellow Brits, the pound sign is invisible when you type, but comes up in the final script, bye..

Joyce Ann
2/23/2005
10:58:52

RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
I have been told that $9.95 is the median retail price for
a book of 107 pages. Anyone know any different?
Joyce Ann

jck
2/23/2005
12:25:13
RE: Retail Pricing????

Message:
It is important to deal with one question at a time. The fact is many top selling books command a high price. People pay extreme prices for so called designer labels. I agree the public will not pay a higher price for run of the mill books.
As for signing copies, during your initial work on promoting your book, that is what all authors do. The point is that if you can make the breakthrough you can visit stores and sign multiple copies there. Also you can send slips with a signed paragraph to all stores to add to your book.
Only 2% of all books make it into bookstores and then only 1 out of 3 books in stores make a profit. Even though everyone realises that fact it is lost when everyone wants their book to be the one. Only a small few will make it and if you search the posts you will see some doing really well.
Pride comes with having your book published and after that you are left with a product. The question is can you sell your product and does anyone want it?
Every problem under the sun is put forward as an excuse for authors being unable to sell their product. Time should be spent solving the problems in a novel way apart from hard work.
Larry has a good product, people want it, and he is making sure they know about it.
My book is science and logic, if people do not want it then I will not sell any copies, but one thing is for sure and that is they will know about it.
The price of my book is the price on the cover but the content is priceless. My book will be worth whatever the price is on the cover.
Imagine you only had your authors copies and could get no more copies, how much would you sell a copy for then?

*************

this... can only go from bad to worse. Wait until they actually GET their copies and try to sell them.

there's a reason why the exodus of PA authors happens 1) when you get your first copies 2) when the royalty checks go out.

:(
 

priceless1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
....this is a legitimate statement from this PA author, and that this is their standard operating behavior? Uncle Jim, and myself to some degree, wondered if maybe it wasn't a put on of some sort. Oh man.....



Sheryl Nantus said:
yes, but don't forget that most of the authors have been convinced by PA that their story is THE best thing since sliced bread - after all, it went through that tough submission process, right?

:(
I can honestly say that of those who wrote back to me after I've rejected their submission, only a small number were PA authors. In those cases, Sheryl, I agree with you that the PA experience may have fostered a degree of arrogance. But I've seen the same response from those who have never been published. Go figure.

I place no stigma upon anyone's previous publisher, only their behavior. It takes me a long time to formulate a thoughtful and helpful critique that accompanies most of my rejections. When someone fires back a nastygram stating that I don't "get" them and insists upon defending their work only reinforces my opinion that they are achingly unprofessional.
 

Ed Williams

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Kelly, you are now understanding...

....why I was not a statistics major in college...

confused-smiley-013.gif


P.S. I made the correction, thanks!
 

KellyS.

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Ed Williams said:
....why I was not a statistics major in college...

confused-smiley-013.gif


P.S. I made the correction, thanks!


Please don't take that wrong!!! I didn't mean it as in your face or anything like that, really. I just knew it was actually worse and THAT I had to point out.

Kelly
 
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