S.T. Literary Agency / Stylus Literary Agency

St....what a rip off...here's my last letter to them

I'm bailing out of your program. $140 for just 10 contacts would break me financially because if there are no buyers for my book, you will want me to pay another $140 for 10 more and on and on............this kind of program you got running can make an author broke......and why would your company tell me in an email that you have over 200 contacts when all you're pitching to is 10 of them. That's pretty deceitful and misleading........because it makes us think that you would contact many of those 200 contacts, when in reality, you're charging us $140 for just 10 of them.......... In fact, I'm pretty upset that you would charge us $128 for the web site pitch page without informing me from the beginning that all these other costs were involved........

Interesting

This email discussion occurred over the last two days between P&E and Wendy Conger who appears to be a member of ST Literary Agency. Read the messages from the bottom up to get the correct sequence. The "Whatever." is her last response to me at P&E.


Whatever.



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto [email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I think it's high time...



Dear Ms. Conger,



No. P&E is a service to writers. As such, it has a right to post recommendations.



Cordially,

Dave Kuzminski, Editor

Preditors & Editors (tm)

-------------- Original message from "Wendy Conger" : --------------

….you take your derogatory remarks about ST Literary Agency off your site. Your concerns are unfounded and it’s not fair to this company. Please take it off. Thanks!

Wendy Conger

Mundelein, IL

Interesting

The email sounds a lot like a PA email Dave. Hmmm, interesting.:shrug

Kevin

Re: ST Literary Agency. Robert Fletcher and his crew.

:gone
They're about to slip off the front page of this thread. That would be a shame because they deserve to be right in front of the face of anybody looking for scam publishers. Would somebody put something appropriate in, so that they go back to the top of the heap?

Re: ST Literary Agency. Robert Fletcher and his crew.

Have they made any sales yet?

Re: ST Literary Agency. Robert Fletcher and his crew.

Hi HapiSofi,
Don't think they're really interested in sales. Just money. Terribly discouraging for new writers to be "caught" by those people.

Re: ST Literary Agency. Robert Fletcher and his crew.

Wish I had seen this site before e-mail communication with Jill, Robert and the crew at ST Literary. I e-mailed my script to them. Have not filled out their questionnaire which I thought sounded wierd, and have been trying to find out about them. Apparently hit the jackpot with this site! Started printing everything out, but stopped after the first 20 pages of complaints!

Like everyone else, if you see my filmscript, "APPOINTED ROUNDS" produced without my name, Barbara F. Seiden, or Laura Lisa (pseudonym) on it, please let me know ([email protected])! Thanks for all the input and warnings.

I could ask for the script back, but when they request an e-mail script submission, it's fruitless. I have also been trying to find a legitimate screenplay agent who will accept "new" (unpublished & unpurchased) writers. The "legit" agents won't even look at our scripts! How are we to be represented?

And if we have to sign their "release" forms, releasing them from lawsuits if they "happen" to come up with and sell a similar script idea, we sign away all our rights!

I've been a writer for a long time, and it is getting harder to get anyone to read it, let alone represent your work, let alone try to sell it!

Any ideas on legitimate filmscript agents who will consider "new" writers' works?

:shrug

Re: ST Literary Agency. Robert Fletcher and his crew.

you'll find listings at wga.org and in writer's digest's 'guide to literary agents' ... the listings indicate which will accept queries from newbies...

releases are sop for prodcos... it does NOT compromise your rights to your own material, but just protects them in case something they already have in development is similar and you decide to sue... and you won't get any legit prodcos to read your work without signing one...

to get to be one of the pros you have to go the same route they did... it's not easy... it's next to impossible, in fact, for a newbie to break in... but it's definitely impossible if you give up...

love and hugs, maia

To: The Queen Mum

Thanks for your input!

A Book for Y'all

Anyone who's considering ST Literary (and everyone else) should buy and read <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809325756/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/" target="_new">Ten Percent of Nothing</a> by Jim Fisher.

It's a history of the Dorothy Deering agency, with sidetrips into Northwest Publishing, Sovereign, and Commonwealth.

Go, read it. Ask your local bookstores to stock it. Put a copy in your local library. This is good stuff.

When you're done, see if ST still seems like a good idea. (And for Fletcher, if you're reading this, ask yourself whether forty months at Club Fed is one of your career goals.)

Robert Fletcher is a con man

Greetings to all,

I just had to come back, regardless of what my physician says.

I think I can write one more vicious polemic against Sydra Techniques/ST Literary and their cadre of greedy soulless bastards before my burnt-out heart explodes in complete disgust at age 49.

On writers.net someone posted Robert M. Fletcher's home phone number a few days ago.

New Zealander Hamish, fearful as always, deleted the post.

I checked an online phone book; Robert Fletcher's number is (561) 482-8159, and his address is 21689 Sutters Lane, Boca Raton Florida 33428.

I asked a lawyer - it is completely LEGAL to post the above.

The same Robert Fletcher of BYTEAUDIO.

The Robert M. Fletcher who was CONVICTED of securities FRAUD in Washington state.

Perhaps someone should call that amoral ogre skulking in the environs of Florida; the wife tells me I shouldn't.

She says $300.00 isn't worth worrying about, and I concede she is correct.

It doesn't matter - Fletcher, Mast, Williams, Rain and all the other skunks, including fat, slovenly Paul Anderson of Houston Texas, will soon be doing time at "Club FED", thanks to the FBI and others who are dedicated to destroying Sydra Techniques/ST Literary.

Read this and weep, Mr. Robert Fletcher.

Nigel Waters

Re: A Book for Y'all

>: Good on you Shiva. It's not yours or my $300.00, its the hundreds, or maybe thousands of poor suckers that are conned by that thieving bunch of crooks at ST.
I just hope you're right and he and his co-horts do finish up in the pen. Stay cool Shiva.:head

Re: Robert Fletcher is a con man

Thank you, Nigel. If you're really writing one last "vicious polemic against Sydra Techniques/ST Literary and their cadre of greedy soulless bastards," let me say one last time that I've always found your attitude refreshing. Inspirational, even.

Take care of yourself, eh?

Are we cutting into their profits?

Writer Beware gets more questions about ST--by far--than about any of the other 350+ agencies we're tracking. Based on the replies I receive, I figure that we turn 5-10 authors away from ST every week.

So with this, and the warnings I'm sure Dave K is also sending out, and the negative information easily available online, is ST feeling the pinch?

I just got word of a new "service" ST is offering...wait for it...paid editing!!! Also known as the fallback option of questionable agents whose fees aren't cutting it anymore (remember Melanie Mills?). Here's how the service is described to potential vic--er, clients:

"RapidPublishing has a subsidiary called, My Editor Is A Saint. They like to start with what they call a 'New Author Starter Package' - This is a comprehensive edit of your first chapter and an initial commentary regarding style and substance.

The New Author Starter Package is designed to enable you to gain a quick understanding of the editing process and to determine if you wish to go further or not."

The cost? ST authors get a deal! It's $99 for them, $149 for others.

Geez, what next? A vanity publishing option for those whose four rounds of "publisher submissions" have not resulted (surprise, surprise) in a sale? Whoops--I'd better bite my tongue.

- Victoria

Re: Are we cutting into their profits?

Geez, what next? A vanity publishing option for those whose four rounds of "publisher submissions" have not resulted (surprise, surprise) in a sale?


Remember when Ron Richard of Lighthouse Press (a tiny press in the Boca Raton area) allegedly said "We are in the process of formalizing a relationship with ST Literary Agency but have not worked out all the details as of this writing"?

I wonder exactly what kind of relationship that might be....

Re: Are we cutting into their profits?

Sunrisepro, agencies most likely are not going to rep an unknown, unproduced person. It's easier for a beginner to submit directly to the few major hollywood prodcos that will take submissions directly from screenwriters.

You may want to write some scripts that can be produced on an indie budget. It's a lot easier selling to an indie producer. Or you have the option of producing your materials yourself in the beginning.

Many famous screenwriters and directors starting out in the indie scene, where they obviously didn't have agents.

And yes, all major agencies do not accepted unsolicited materials.

If you live in LA or NYC, a good way to learn more about the industry is to intern for prodcos, studios, or agencies. Get to know people over a period of time and you'll find out how easy it is to submit to them.

JustinoIV

I worked out in L.A. years ago. I do know how it works. However, then, you could get an agent. Now you cannot.

Thanks for your well-meaning intents.

Re: Ann

Hello, everyone,

I've been reading this string for the past 2 hours. Hello, Ann. Good to see you, my friend.

I too have been scammed, but not by ST Lit. Mine was by Jillanne Kimble (Kimble-Unger Literary Agency). She charged me $350 to edit a 300 page novel. Said she was charging me $1.00 a page, but before it was all over, she did a total of 100 pages over a 9 month period.

Luckily, I got out before I signed a contract or A/A Agreement with her. I am now with a legitimate agent who hasn't charged me anything and has submitted to both Random House and Simon and Schuster.

So hang in there, all of you.

Best of Luck
Shay Wells

Read it and weep

Check it out, folks...a day in the life of an amateur agent:

www.stliteraryagency.com/-agentday

- Victoria

ST

"The editor is not available so I speak to her assistant, who is quite cordial. I learn that they are aware of the manuscript and author, it was submitted on February 14th, 2003… Valentine's Day – 15 months ago… "…it hasn't been read yet," the assistant reports, "did you have an update or changes?" I am assured that it is still pending review and not being ignored. I write up a short report and email it back to Boca Raton for Robert and the author."-from the website Victoria mentioned.

Is this normal? Or only because it is ST Lit? LOL. Fifteen months to get a decision??? Must be a tall tale. Most websites say up to 9 months for a decision for manuscript.

Response Times

Is this normal? Or only because it is ST Lit? LOL. Fifteen months to get a decision??? Must be a tall tale. Most websites say up to 9 months for a decision for manuscript.

Click to expand...

Publishers who accept full manuscripts (Baen) often take a long time (Baen) to read submissions (Baen). I've heard of people waiting more than a year for a response. I had a similar experience, although thinking back, I probably made some mistakes on my submission (postage choice, etc).

But of course, that applies to slush pile submissions -- manuscripts submitted by unagented authors. Agented manuscripts would take less time, if the agent was respectable. And ST ... Cough, cough. This just goes to prove that having a bad agent is just as bad as, and sometimes worse than, having no agent at all.

BTW some people suggest that if the publisher asks for a complete manuscript, you should submit a query letter and outline instead. Then, when you get the letter asking for the complete manuscript, you can send the manuscript directly to that person with a cover letter that says "Here is the manuscript you requested." Others say that submitting only a partial when the editor asks for the complete manuscript is silly, shooting yourself in the foot, etc. I don't know, they could be right. :shrug But I loathe the idea of leaving a manuscript in limbo for eons like that yet again, even though I will of course be working on something else during that time. g

Re: Response Times

Agented manuscripts would take less time, if the agent was respectable.

There's a category called "agented slush."

That's the stuff that comes from agents no one has heard of -- it goes into the same slush pile as the things you send in yourself.

If the house claims to only look at agented submissions, they still have a slush pile. Sounds very much like this guy, if he exists, is a slush agent.

==============

Meanwhile, in total fairness to ST, they claim to have two legitimate sales.

Whether the authors made the sales themselves then turned to ST for representation, is unknown. Both of the publishers take unagented works.

The first is <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0762736704/ref=nosim/madhousemanor" target="_new">Too Much Tuscan Sun: Confessions of a Chianti Tour Guide</A> by Dario Castagno with Robert Rodi, published by Globe Pequot. This is a perfectly respectable small publisher, specializing in sports and travel books. If, as suggested up thread, this book was sold for a royalty based on net, the deal Fletcher got wasn't very good at all.

The second is A Marriage Built To Last by Rev. Billy Crone, from <a href="http://www.mapletreepublishing.com/" target="_new">Mapletree Publishing</a>, a miniscule startup publisher based in Iowa. Rev. Billy's book is scheduled to come out next summer. We'll see if they're still in business by then. Based on their website, no agent is required. It seems unlikely that Rev. Billy got an advance, either.

While these are legitimate sales, assuming Fletcher got them, not the authors themselves, they certainly aren't spectacular ones. Nor does he seem to have jumped into the leagues where you need an agent to be considered. Two minor sales after years in business is still a pathetic record.

Re: Response Times

The impression I have is that ST is trying to get just a couple of legitimate sales just to blunt some of the criticism or ST managed to get real lucky. I'll believe it was more than luck when ST gets a book accepted at a publisher that requires agented submissions.

Robert Fletcher, ST Literary, the BBB, and REFUNDS!

Hi,

I discovered some very interesting news over at AuthorsDen and figured I would pass it on to interested parties.
It seems that a man named Todd Cheney has managed to get Robert Fletcher to refund the money that he fleeced from Mr. Cheney under false pretenses.
Here's the link: www.authorsden.com/visit/viewblog.asp?authorid=16018
The Florida Better Business Bureau, of which ST Literary is allegedly a member, apparently persuaded Mr. Fletcher to return Mr. Cheney's funds.
I find that quite illuminating; perhaps others who have been taken to the cleaners by Mr. Fletcher will get wind of this, contact the Florida BBB and also receive refunds.
This could amount to many thousands of dollars indeed; perhaps hundreds of thousands. That will definitely cut into Robert Fletcher's profit margin.
If enough people complain to the authorities, Mr. Robert Fletcher of ST Literary should be out of the 'agent' business by the end of the year.
I certainly wouldn't miss them, but unfortunately Mr. Fletcher will simply reincarnate ST Literary into yet another scam, probably an online 'editing' business, as I have heard rumored lately.
Or perhaps they'll finally lock him up in one of those country clubs for white-collar criminals, with his record, such is not beyond the realm of possibility.
Goodbye ST Literary, may you NOT rest in peace.:grr

ST Contract

I'm new to your boards, but not the writing game. I was recently "accepted" by ST. I was very excited when I received my AIF (Author Information Form) until I read that they liked to deal "with writers like me".

This phrase gave me shivers, so I did more investigating and ran across the boards. Judging from the number of adverse comments sprawled through these pages about ST Literary Agency (and I admit that I haven't read them all in the two days that I've known about you), I became quite wary.

Sure enough, this evening I received an email with the contract offer. Granted, I'm not a lawyer, but the contract is straightforward. It mentions nothing about "up front fees", but it does mention admin fees. Here is the contractual paragraph of which I speak:

"Any Administrative fees approved, by, and paid by Writer for services performed by Agent will be reimbursed from Agent proceeds in the event of a sale. The Writer is NOT RESPONSIBLE for any administrative fees not specifically agreed to by Writer in advance. The Agent is not responsible for damage or loss or return of any material."

The contractual package also included pages that constituted the up front "fee" in the form of an OPP (Online Pitch Page). This is the second paragraph from the explanation of the OPP form.

"There is a one-time intake fee of $79 for the building of the website Online Pitch Page and a one-time fee of $50 for setting you up in our database system that we will use for the term of our engagement. ($79 for the OPP and $50 for the database and setup processes = $129 total)."

As a Database Administrator, I know that it takes approximately ten seconds to add a new user to a database, although, I have to admit that the OPP page is intriguing because it is in the form of a web site.

However, I think I'd much rather tape 129 George Washingtons to my TP roll than to use it for "Administration Fees".

Victoria, if you are reading this, and you want a contract for Writer Beware, just post it here. I'll watch for a response. My guess is, however, you have already had this offer.

Sincerely,

Ulysses Grant Lyman