personal rejections

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cynreeda

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I've been sending out a few short stories the past two months and all of them (save one) have been rejected multiple times. It's usually a personal rejection, but like you said, it never says more than a form. There's not critique or reason for why it was rejected. Usually just that the story isn't what they're looking for.

I don't take rejection personally and they just kinda slide off. I just look at it as an opportunity to send to a different publisher that might just appreciated it.
 

blacbird

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It's usually a personal rejection, but like you said, it never says more than a form. There's not critique or reason for why it was rejected. Usually just that the story isn't what they're looking for.

That's not a personal rejection; it's a form rejection, pure and simple. If it says nothing specific about the story submitted, it's just a plain ol' NO.

caw
 

Jamesaritchie

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Yes, there's no mistaking a personal rejection. It really is personal, uses your name, the story's title, and tells you specifically why the story was rejected. Real personal rejections are always helpful in some way, and mean you're getting close to being published.
 

Jamesaritchie

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A lot of the rejections I got have used my name and story title, which is kinda why I thought they were personal. Either way, they don't bother me.

They shouldn't bother you, unless you submit often, and never get anything except form rejections. If this happens, if you submit a lot but never get personal rejections, you have a problem.
 

gettingby

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Yes, there's no mistaking a personal rejection. It really is personal, uses your name, the story's title, and tells you specifically why the story was rejected. Real personal rejections are always helpful in some way, and mean you're getting close to being published.

I don't always find them helpful. They don't seem to say why the stories are being rejected even if they tell you that you are close. Maybe they are helpful because you can mention what was said in your next cover letter to them, but as far as why it was rejected never seems to be that clear. I had one editor send me a phf copy of my story with pen-marked comments on it. This was great to see, but I'm sure not why that story was rejected. I'm pretty sure it meant that my story was read more than once since it was printed out and written on. But even with all that, I don't really know why they didn't take it.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I don't always find them helpful. They don't seem to say why the stories are being rejected even if they tell you that you are close. Maybe they are helpful because you can mention what was said in your next cover letter to them, but as far as why it was rejected never seems to be that clear. I had one editor send me a phf copy of my story with pen-marked comments on it. This was great to see, but I'm sure not why that story was rejected. I'm pretty sure it meant that my story was read more than once since it was printed out and written on. But even with all that, I don't really know why they didn't take it.

A story an editor marked up is a gem. It may not tell you exactly why it was rejected, but no editor takes time to mark up a story unless he thinks that writer is on the right path. Usually, such comments, and any editing, are things the editor believes yu need to work on.

A personal rejection either says you came very close, which should be helpful in making you write and submit a lot more stories, if nothing else. But good personal rejection letters do tell you something about why the story was rejected. I can't recall receiving a personal rejection that didn't tell me why the story was rejected.

Maybe this is because of the stories I've sold, but this is the way it seems to work for most of my writer friends, as well.
 

cynreeda

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They shouldn't bother you, unless you submit often, and never get anything except form rejections. If this happens, if you submit a lot but never get personal rejections, you have a problem.

I have 12 submissions (4 different stories), one was accepted. I got my first personal rejection. They said that the narrative was farther removed than what they were looking for. I suppose that means I didn't get into the character's head enough?

So really I have 11 form rejections between 3 stories. Do you consider that a problem? What kind of problem?
 

pdichellis

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I have 12 submissions (4 different stories), one was accepted. I got my first personal rejection. They said that the narrative was farther removed than what they were looking for. I suppose that means I didn't get into the character's head enough?

So really I have 11 form rejections between 3 stories. Do you consider that a problem? What kind of problem?

Use Submission Grinder (free) and/or Duotrope (subscription) to check the markets that sent you rejections. See how often they send forms vs. personals.

For example, Grinder shows one of the top mystery markets sent 0% personal rejections during the past year, all forms. I've gotten nothing but forms from them, but that's how they work, so no worries. If they'd sent a lot of personals, but only forms to me, I'd guess my stories weren't even close to what they wanted and would rethink what I submit to them.

Best wishes,
Peter DiChellis
 

SML7318

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At times it's annoying when a personal consists of "not for us, thanks" when I've received a form from the same publication, but the forms that I do appreciate are the tiered ones from One Story. At least you can tell if you're going in the right direction.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I have 12 submissions (4 different stories), one was accepted. I got my first personal rejection. They said that the narrative was farther removed than what they were looking for. I suppose that means I didn't get into the character's head enough?

So really I have 11 form rejections between 3 stories. Do you consider that a problem? What kind of problem?

In your case, it really sounds like you're telling stories that just aren't what the editors are after. You had one accepted, so you have some writing talent, but the biggest hurdle most talented writers face is learning to tell the right story, in the right way. This is what fit is all about. No matter how good a story is, if it doesn't fit, if it isn't the right story, told the right way, it's going to receive a lot of rejections.

I know that was the hardest lesson I had to learn, but once I figured out how to read magazines in a way that let me write stories they wanted, and that no one else could give them, my sales percentage went through the roof.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Twelve submissions, with one acceptance and one personal rejection doesn't sound to me like a bad percentage.

caw

It depends on who bought the one story, but it's far from a good percentage because selling one to a good magazine means you have the ability to sell many.

Even at my worst, new writer, never even tried or thought about writing before, I had about a thirty-five percent acceptance rate. Once I learned how to give editors stories, character, and settings they'd never seen, and that fit the magazines, this percentage more than doubled.

Not reading the magazines you submit stories to can bring the percentage way down, of course.

The number one cause for a very low percentage is poor writing, but for those who write well, who know how to build character and story, teh number one reason is writing stories that have nothing fresh and original about them. They're well-told, but the editor has seen them a thousand times.

Beyond this, it's all about fit, and a surprising number of talented writers simply don't know how to write stories that are a perfect fit for a given magazine. Until they learn this, sales are going to remain few and far between, even if they have a ton of talent.
 

gettingby

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It depends on who bought the one story, but it's far from a good percentage because selling one to a good magazine means you have the ability to sell many.

Even at my worst, new writer, never even tried or thought about writing before, I had about a thirty-five percent acceptance rate. Once I learned how to give editors stories, character, and settings they'd never seen, and that fit the magazines, this percentage more than doubled.

Not reading the magazines you submit stories to can bring the percentage way down, of course.

The number one cause for a very low percentage is poor writing, but for those who write well, who know how to build character and story, teh number one reason is writing stories that have nothing fresh and original about them. They're well-told, but the editor has seen them a thousand times.

Beyond this, it's all about fit, and a surprising number of talented writers simply don't know how to write stories that are a perfect fit for a given magazine. Until they learn this, sales are going to remain few and far between, even if they have a ton of talent.

I don't even have an acceptance rate. I guess the only one I got was when I was accepted into a competitive and funded MFA program. I know it's not a publication, but someone thought the story I applied with was good enough to pay me to go to school for writing.

But I have sent out hundreds of submissions. And I'm sure that it is less than half that even got personal rejections, though, I do get personal rejections on a regular basis.

I think one acceptance in 12 submissions is great, provided it is an impressive publication. It's actually really great.

I read so many literary journals, and I always feel like I know who is most likely to take a story when I finish it. But they don't take it. Maybe I just have really bad luck or I'm not as good as I think, but this is what I signed up for with the MFA experience. I'm not ready to give up even though I have made writing my priority for a few years and still haven't been able to get in anywhere.

I don't think poor writing or fit are my problems. Having worked for two literary journals, I know there is a lot of pressure to attract big names and solicit work. Stories from the slush pile can make their way to publication. I have seen this happen, but for a lot of literary publications, editors are looking beyond the slush pile for submissions. Our competition is more than just people who submit. It is also the people asked to submit work.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I don't think poor writing or fit are my problems. Having worked for two literary journals, I know there is a lot of pressure to attract big names and solicit work. Stories from the slush pile can make their way to publication. I have seen this happen, but for a lot of literary publications, editors are looking beyond the slush pile for submissions. Our competition is more than just people who submit. It is also the people asked to submit work.

If the problem isn't poor writing, then reasons for rejection are limited. It almost always comes down to same old, same old stories, or to fit. Or both. Both is common.

It's true that selling a story to a good magazine is not easy. You have to write a story that's better in some way than what the known name writers submit. Not as good as, but better.

But a story that's well-written, that isn't just another same old, same old story, and that fits perfectly what the editor is after, will do this almost every time.

Too many writers read the magazine, and then give the editor a story like all the others that editor has bought. I won't say this never works, but it's rare. The trick is giving an editor a well-written story with good characters that's not like all the others that editor has bought, but that still fits what the editor wants.

Assuming the story is well-written, and has good characters, originality plus fit doesn't guarantee a sale, but it does guarantee a very high sales percentage. Like originality, fit can't be overemphasized.

How many times have you had editors praise your writing, even praise the story, but say, "Not for us"?

Again, assuming good writing and characterization, this is what "Not for us" means.
 

blacbird

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But a story that's well-written, that isn't just another same old, same old story, and that fits perfectly what the editor is after, will do this almost every time.

All of which you only really know if it gets accepted for publication. Thus, completing the circularity of the argument. I can't see how anybody could possibly kn ow this, for certain, in advance of submission.

Unless maybe they bribed the editor.

caw
 
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Jamesaritchie

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All of which you only really know if it gets accepted for publication. Thus, completing the circularity of the argument. I can't see how anybody could possibly kn ow this, for certain, in advance of submission.

Unless maybe they bribed the editor.

caw

Sure, but this could essentially be said about any profession on earth. The only way you know you got it right is to do it successfully, whether it's writer, heart surgeon, or plumber.

But you have talent at any of these things, there will be indicators along the way, whether it's getting good grades, or have a professor, doctor, or whoever, say you're getting better and better.

Writing is the same way. You can't know you've got it right until you sell an editor a story, but if you have any talent, there will be indicators along the way that say you're getting closer and closer. Editors will praise your writing, they will say "Very close", and mean it.

I don't even think most of these things are difficult to know at all. It's pretty easy to tel whether you're writing same old, same old just by reading enough of the magazines.

It should also be pretty easy to get a solid feel for what the editor likes as far as style, pace, flow, characterization, fast or slow moving, etc.

Again, no one can really help F students, but if you have the talent, the work ethic, and reasonable smarts, I think the only difficult part of teh process is learning how to give editors the old "Just like everything else, only different" type of story.

Both parts of this statement are critical. You need the "Just like everything else", and this is what you learn by reading stories with an eye toward what an editor likes.

The you need "only different", but in a way that doesn't conflict with "Just like everything else".

One writer may learn this through instinct, another through the sheer volume of reading, writing, and submitting, and another through critical study, but I think every successful short story writer has learned it.

For me, it was learning to give editors what no otehr writer in the world could give them, which is myself. My very real characters he's probably never seen, my detailed, come to life settings he's never visited, and probably never heard of, and my specific life experiences from childhood on up. Well, and through specific life experiences of those people I know really well, and was often an observer to.

As soon as I learned to incorporate these things in stories that were "Just like everything else", sales skyrocketed.

From my reading, I think this is pretty much what all successful writers do, whether they're writing literary tales, werewolf tales, or aliens visit Lady Gaga tales.

Anyway, sure, there is no way of telling you have it right until an acceptance or three rolls in, but there will always be indicators, trail markers along the way. Unless you're an F student. Then all the trail markers say "No admittance allowed".
 

SymbolicGuitar

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What episode of south park was that? I used to think I knew them all by heart, now I realize I'm not quite that cool after all..
 
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