The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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emeraldcite

Re: Something they might not think of

one thing that the pa authors don't understand about their 'publisher' is this:

imagine we're talking basketball. if you are picked up for your community team, you can consider yourself a 'basketball player.' you may be good. you may play a lot of games. Sure you have experience playing for a basketball team too. however, you can't go around calling yourself a 'pro' because you did not play in the NBA. you are not being paid highly for your skills.

same with PA. sure, they're publish. just as published as any vanity press produces. isbn's, online sales, and everything. but what they lack is reputation. PA doesn't edit (by edit i mean take the story, tear it down, build it back up again). they proof. they catch nominal errors. they slap a cover and sell it to the authors at a discount. not boxes of free copies. then, for being POD, it seems pretty hard to get what you demanded. on several of the PA boards there was talk of problems getting copies. you'd think that PA would make sure that if a group of authors were going to do a signing, there'd be books there. the signing could bring in sales. it could be a chance to sell their product.

alas, that was not how it was. some of the authors were lucky to get a few copies. so much for printing on demand. there was demand, and the printing couldn't meet it. that's why traditional houses have print runs and return policies. the book will be there when it is needed.

good luck to them trying to get agents, if they want them. but many of the authors who post on the PA boards are more concerned with having a copy in their hand than copies on the shelves.
 

Dragon Chow

I'm with you, Lisa

I want to shake people like this and scream "don't you get it?"

I understand you perfectly. I often feel like that too when I read the messages in the PA board. :cry

Some have argued that PA will have its day, that it is a company clawing its way up through other larger companies trying to keep it down.

That's not gonna happen, because PA has no intention of becoming like a traditional publisher. It takes too much work. They'll have to do things like manuscript selection, content edit, and <gasp!> marketing. Nope, selling overpriced books to their authors is much easier.

Yes, they're growing, all right. They're adding a hundred new authors every month. And since the old ones are stuck for seven years, the number just keeps growing. But numbers don't matter. They could have a million authors and a billion dollars in sales, but they still won't be taken seriously. Quality is what counts, not quantity.

DC
 

SRHowen

bangs head

The dark clouds floating in the sky releasing a mist on the ground have assisted in providing the perfect background on a dark and gloomy day. The sensation of self-doubt sinks in as an analysis of the situation leaves me feeling somewhat helpless.

I got stuck on this--and have been banging my head on the desk again and again :blackeye If this is a sample of the posters writing--well, umm bangs head again.

I can see why people go with PA--it is easy. No rejections, no one touches what you did and it answers a dream, you have a book to hold. But in the end traditional is a book in a book store, not one but many and in the big chains.

As too the old getting out of the big names so the young can get in and change things--who does this guy think works in the publishing houses?

Ugh, back to that paragraph--bangs head.

Shawn
 

DaveKuzminski

Two topics

There are two topics in the PublishAmerica forums that are of interest. One speaks of slammers and points at one of their authors who posts there and here. The other concerns their Independence imprint which may not be a hardcover book after all going by what the author stated in www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8919.htm
 

emeraldcite

so the basic premise is...

if you sell 500 or more copies, you get a bell on your book and a new publishing name. that'll fool them wascily wabbits.

a goal for achievement.
 

FM St George

Re: so the basic premise is...

smoke and mirrors yet again...

I'm so surprised.

not.
 

emeraldcite

question, dave

dave, which post is this?


quote/ One speaks of slammers and points at one of their authors who posts there and here. /quote

i couldn't find it and i'd like to read it.

thanks!
 

GravityFades

Re: Other topic URL

I'm the John they're speaking of. Pretty rabid stuff. Oh well, people will think what they will.

John
 

CWGranny

Re: Other topic URL

Wow John, they got vicious fast. Good thing they are so much more tolerant and big hearted than the folks on Writersnet because if they can actually slide downward in their response to you, I'd hate to imagine it.

Gran
 

darbyj

Nails on a Blackboard

Okay, the gee golly whillickers thing is reeeeally getting old. It's like I have a blackboard under my skin and it is being nail-scratched from the inside out.

John, I'm so sorry the post is turning that way. Unbelievable. The stupidity that comes out of some of those mouths, or rather, their fingers, never ceases to amaze me. You HAVE to stay with PA for the rest of your life because they are the future!? You can't be a PA author and see that there is something wrong with the way they do things?!

You are a voice of reason, John.

I can't say anymore, because I'm at a loss here.

Lisa
 

FM St George

Re: Other topic URL

obviously you don't have that horrible clause about your second book...

and if they really think that you could negotiate a decent advance with PA, well.... they're even more deluded than usual!

just wait for your access to be pulled...

*chuckle*

amazing how they don't dare go to the other boards to dispute you there, where they're not protected by the PA moderators, hmm?

we still love ya, John...

{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}
 

GravityFades

Re: Other topic URL

Hi gang. Oddly enough, I did have that clause. I sent PA my next novel, a thing called Gravity Fades. They passed on it. I attempted to answer them, and lo and behold, I've been banned (big shock). Oh well. Moving along.

John
 

GravityFades

Re: Other topic URL

That last post was less than clear (getting gnawed on will do that to a feller). I sent Gravity Fades to PA in the summer of 2002, I think. Anyway, they did take a pass on it. What's coming out in May is my private eye novel.

The "them" I was referring to were the other posters. That's when I found I'd been banned. Gosh, I feel like I've joined a secret society or something, The Banned League! Do we get a club newsletter, secret grips, a hat, what? *G*

John
 

GravityFades

Re: Other topic URL

That last post was less than clear (getting gnawed on will do that to a feller). I sent Gravity Fades to PA in the summer of 2002, I think. Anyway, they did take a pass on it. What's coming out in May is my private eye novel, Until the Last Dog Dies.

The "them" I was referring to were the other posters. That's when I found I'd been banned. Gosh, I feel like I've joined a secret society or something: The Banned League! Do we get a club newsletter, secret grips, a hat, what? *G*

John
 

GravityFades

Re: Other topic URL

duplicate posts...brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department...*G*...I'm gonna rest now...

John
 

vstrauss

Re: Other topic URL

Welcome to the League of the Banned, John. I've been following your posts here and elsewhere...I had a feeling your days were numbered on the PA board.

Now about that secret handshake...

- Victoria
 

FM St George

Re: Other topic URL

don't worry, John - I somehow think you'll survive without them...

*laughs*

and at the same time, anyone getting a rather cultish vibe from the rantings?

wow... basically, if you publish once with PA you're bound to them for life...

scary stuff...

*falls over trying to perfect secret handshake*
 

astonwest

Re: Watch your back, John

It's pretty sad when they start circling their wagons and such...

"Robinson, you can't play act as the voice of reason on this board while taking vicious shots at our publisher (and us) on a different forum."

Unfortunately, if he ended up taking shots at "our publisher" on the PA board, he'd have his posts removed, and would have ended up banned anyway...you can't have it both ways, Mr. Garrett...

"Did you ever stop to think what another publisher would think of you when you became self-righteous upon changing publishers?"

Judging from the comments John received (listed over on the writers.net thread mentioned) from editors and agents, I don't think anyone is going to consider what John has done (I'm still trying to see where he has become 'self-righteous') as something horrible.

"As soon as you hooked up with a satellite publisher who promised the moon and the stars you folded up any integrity you had."

Huh?

Myself, if a publisher came to me and told me they would be using an actual publicist to go around to stores and plug my book, I'd sign with them too...I don't mind doing work trying to plug my book, but it takes a ton of time which should be spent in writing my next one...

"Don't get me wrong. I love it when people get offered an advance. The thing is, you can negotiate your contract with PA for an advance like the professionals do."

I'm curious...has Mr. Marcus ever been offered an advance? I tried negotiating the second contract...one of the clauses was the advance...I didn't even go as high as "the professionals", only to $100...they wouldn't bite. Ha.

(Of course, the fact I've often complained about the overpricing of my book probably didn't help me out... :p )

"As far as attacking the close this board and the people who post here, this board has a very positive feel where you and your new friends are so negative that nobody lurks or cares."

Yes, I can tell it has a really positive feel...just from that post right there...and all the others bashing the non-compliant...

Sigh...

(Be careful, though, John...you mentioned when your book was going to be out, so I imagine the crew over yonder will be looking to make sure to post negative reviews as soon as they can...)

From the other mentioned thead:

"I guess I assumed that when and if your book made the Independence Books label that all the Waldens bookstores would carry them. This is evidently not the case."

Oddly enough, I realized this wasn't the case to begin with...I went further and asked whether stocking decisions would still have to be made through the regional offices, as was the case before. No answer (though the other question in that same e-mail received one)...

oh well...

John, for joining the League of the Banned, you receive a free gift...you know how to contact me... :)
(make sure to get your secret handshake in order first...)
 

astonwest

Re: Other topic URL

"wow... basically, if you publish once with PA you're bound to them for life..."

Unfortunately, their standard brainwashing regimen attempts to get folks to believe that if you've been published by PA, you've got the best thing going, so why would you even CONSIDER going anywhere else? PA's own propaganda proclaims how many of their authors return for their future books...

Funny, the folks I've talked to haven't been all that interested in sending future works to PA...and once I (since I was contractually obligated) sent in my second work for consideration, and we were unable to come to an agreement on a contract, I don't plan on doing so again...
 

dgkgoldberg

a list of non-randomn thoughts

My second novel came out with a reputable small press that publishes traditional horror and dark fantasy and offered a reasonable advance for a novice.

I can't imagine defining myself or my career as a (name of press) author. That's just plain weird at best, jejune at moderate best, and pathologically deluded at worse.

I do want some of what HB smokes. I often make really bad decisions. I made one horrid publishing decision. But, I have never been able to look at my errors and do a King Midas spin. I'd love to do that, I'd learn nothing but I'd be semi-euphoric. Poor HB. Bless his heart. He can't tell the differance between being percieved as an inconoclast or gadfly and the pointing and laughing.

What none of the Jim Jones is alive and well and pouring the Kool aid crowd seems to get is that:

Many people are readers. Many readers do not like some books. If a reader does not like something I have written that is not invalidated because the reader does not have a book. Part of the borg seem to believe that a poster on any message board or book sell site should be invalidated if they have not written a book.

First time novelists regularly get advances that are enough to buy decent used cars.

Many publications pay more for one short story than the authors will net for the sale of 100 Publish America books.

No one considers Publish America authors a threat.

Some people are concerned that Publish America will lure more people into a world of poor distribution, foul editing, broken dreams and distortions regarding the business of publishing.

And, when the PA trolls do a google search on me I am aware that some sites do incorrectly list me as a self published writer vis a vie my first novel. That is inaccurate and I have tried without success to get the offending web sites to remove that text. Please feel free once you have done said search to email me with your questions in referance to that, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions.
 

aka eraser

Re: Other topic URL

I had a vision.

The time-the near future- perhaps 2005/6. The place-the PA message board: HB, the last remaining pirate, is clinging to a piece of PA flotsam and using his remaining strength to rail against the Traditional Publishers who torpedoed his beloved boat.

Fade to 404 Error message.

Ok, I admitted on another thread that screenplays aren't my thing.

Try not to feel bad John. Near as I can tell, every writer with a spine has been banned from PA.

Maybe it's time to revisit that t-shirt idea?
 

Ed Williams 3

Now I better understand the impassioned defense of PA...

....by Mr. Marcus. I figure that since PA books are not typically sold in bookstores, online sales have to comprise the bulk of the sales these books achieve. I also figured that Amazon is a good place to guage sales strength of the various PA titles, as it is the best known online bookseller. Currently PA lists 3356 titles on Amazon, and factor in that the top selling PA books may have sold around 500 copies. With all that being said, out of 3356 books, Mr. Marcus' current literary efforts are sales ranked as follows:

1106. The Joe Schmoe Show
by H. B. Marcus (Paperback - October 2003)
Avg. Customer Rating:

Usually ships in 24 hours
List Price: $19.95
Buy new: $19.95
Used & new from $19.55

2833. Crispy
by H. B. Marcus (Paperback - December 2001)
Avg. Customer Rating:

Usually ships in 24 hours
List Price: $19.95
Buy new: $19.95
Used & new from $18.69

No wonder the slavish devotion to PA, most of it has to be due to publishing self preservation. Well, at least there is one bright spot in all this - sell two or three copies, and you could be in the top fifty PA best sellers in no time!
 

FM St George

Re: Now I better understand the impassioned defense of PA...

ah, but the majority of PA books don't even sell 500 - I believe there's only TWO of them currently under the now-useless Independence Books label. Which means pretty well nothing, as the PA authors point out in another post.

the sad thing is that these people are spending more time promoting and preaching than writing... and are getting more in the hole financially than if they had just printed up copies at Kinko's and just handed them out.
 

CWGranny

Actually

Amazon is not a good place to judge PA sales. The bulk of sales from many (if not most) PA books come from the author buying the books and reselling them. Now, this used to be reflected in Amazon because authors bought from Amazon and resold in order to (1) get royalties and (2) qualify for all these "make x number of sales and get y" promotions PA has. But, since PA makes the greatest profit by selling to the author directly (rather than through Amazon), PA has wisely made bulk sales to authors award royalties and qualify for sales promotions.

Also, to be perfectly fair, I know of 2 PA authors who sold 1000 books -- through truly Herculean promotional efforts that consumed a blinding amount of each person's time. You won't see them post on the PA board because they lost posting privledges a long time ago (back during the first rash of "pretend PA authors" who popped up on the board only long enough to smear people PA didn't like and then disappeared.) Seems your password would suddenly stop working if you were foolish enough to object to your publisher letting their message board be used that way -- go figure. Both of those authors have moved on to other projects and I don't believe they promote their PA books anymore.

I also suspect Christy French probably sold 1000 copies of her PA book (which apparently did not keep her from moving on to a different POD publisher). And I think I remember Lynn Barry saying she sold 1000 and joined the club (she does most of her sales as resales, I think -- buying the books and selling them from her diner). I suspect she is the only 1000 seller you will see on their message board.

Apparently selling 1000 books doesn't automatically make you a bubbling happy PA author. It's probably the realization that if you had a more...supportive publisher ... those 1000 sales (coming as they do through copious hours, dollars, and sweat) would have been more like 10,000 sales. That realization tends to drain away your appreciation for the $1 advance and the flowers they used to send when you became a 1000 book seller.

Gran
 
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