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Misleading the reader all the way to the big reveal... Good or bad?

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Brightdreamer

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To be fair, we're desperately trying to get to Mars, and we can't even breathe there.

Yeah, but we're taking our own life-support systems if/when we go; we aren't just gonna pop open the hatch on the spaceship and take a big, deep lungful of death. 'Cause we've taken the time to ascertain that there is a potential hazard to our health on the planet we're visiting before turning up to invade and stuff...

As for the OP, sounds like a classic case of withholding too much info for the BAM! factor on the twist. In which case, as you've discovered, it comes across less as a clever punchline and more as an eye-rolling attempt to shock the reader. The ending has to take place in the same universe that the rest of the world occurred in - meaning the same events have to logically lead up to and include the twist. Otherwise it's a fatal blow to a reader's suspension of disbelief.
 

neandermagnon

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Is there a difference between a plot twist that takes place in the middle of the story (say the suspicious witness is proved innocent) and one that takes place at the end (turns out the detective was the real murderer)?

Either could work if done well. If done poorly, then the detective turns out to be the murderer thing is the one that's most likely to be terrible, because it's that much harder to pull off well. You would expect various suspects in a detective novel to be proven innocent as the story progresses, but to have the detective turn out to be the murderer would take careful handling. Isn't there a famous detective story where this happened? I've vaguely heard of it but can't remember any specifics.
 

neandermagnon

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The book hasn't been edited, but it's been out for a couple of years, and has some glowing reviews. I've checked out the negative reviews and they pretty much complain about the same stuff as I do, and then the reviewers felt the wrath of the troll-fans. I'm not interested in this author's other stories because they're in a genre I tend not to read anymore, but I certainly won't pick up any other of his stories, and won't be recommending him, that's for sure.

This reminds me of the terrible auditions you get on programmes like X factor. The person has a social group that look up to them for whatever reason (usually due to social dynamics and nothing to do with talent) and are constantly blowing smoke up their arse, telling them they're wonderful etc. The result is the first time someone tells them they're mediocre (or terrible, as the case may be) are the judges.

I would avoid any book where the author has acolytes that attack people who write bad reviews, because it smacks of the above. I can't say in any case whether that's what is really going on, but it certainly gives that impression.
 

Roxxsmom

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I'd be pretty damned irritated by an "it was all a dream" ending anyway. And for there to be no hint where there should have been a hint, well, I'd probably not be reading a book by that author again (unless I already had read and liked other things they'd written), and maybe even giving it a rather acerbic review (something I never do, since books that keep me to the end are usually decent at least).

Amazing their editor let that slide, honestly.
 

Once!

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Like all techniques, it can be done well or it can be done badly. If you weren't convinced by this particular example, then the author hadn't prepared the reveal well enough ... for you, at least.
 

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This reminds me of the terrible auditions you get on programmes like X factor. The person has a social group that look up to them for whatever reason (usually due to social dynamics and nothing to do with talent) and are constantly blowing smoke up their arse, telling them they're wonderful etc. The result is the first time someone tells them they're mediocre (or terrible, as the case may be) are the judges.

I didn't make the link between the two but you completely nailed it!
 

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I'd be pretty damned irritated by an "it was all a dream" ending anyway. And for there to be no hint where there should have been a hint, well, I'd probably not be reading a book by that author again (unless I already had read and liked other things they'd written), and maybe even giving it a rather acerbic review (something I never do, since books that keep me to the end are usually decent at least).

Amazing their editor let that slide, honestly.

The story wasn't actually edited, from what I assume, as there is no mention of an editor. It was proofread by a few people though, and I'm surprised (and disappointed, because I know some of them by name and they're quite "popular" in the circle) that no one actually mentioned anything. It's not a question of taste. I completely accept that one person might like a story but another one might not. We're all different. But I found so many problems with the story that even if I was wrong on some of them, the others should have been mentioned. I must say that there are very few typos, so that's a good thing. But there are still terms that are wrong. The French terms are all incorrect. You get "here ye" instead of "hear ye" when the person makes an announcement old-English style. "To make do" with something suddenly becomes "make due." A lot of fuss is being made by not knowing the pet's gender, but eventually "she" does something, and then the main character finds out the pet is female later on. I don't know. I've had so many facepalm moments my forehead was hurting in the end.

I'd love to either give a negative review or at least contact the author to voice my concern. In the circle, there have recently been talks about how criticism shouldn't be taken personally, but with an open mind, so you craft can improve. But seeing the trolling and all the "he's such a wonderful writer" I'm reluctant to voice my concerns, because of the repercussions on people I'm associated with. Because people have a tendency to not being able to dissociate single individuals sometimes. I can't even tell the other authors who are in the box set, well those I know anyway, because if my book was in there, I'd have been horrified. And this story is the first book of the set, and as a reader, it's completely put me off reading the others. I'm sure I won't be the only one. It's all very sad :(
 

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Like all techniques, it can be done well or it can be done badly. If you weren't convinced by this particular example, then the author hadn't prepared the reveal well enough ... for you, at least.

I'm not t all sure I'd call this a technique. It sounds more like a tired plot that was overdone a hundred yeas ago. Not everything can be done well. Some things will inevitably fail regardless of how well the writer des them, simply because they're not only overdone, they never we a good idea.
 

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Like all techniques, it can be done well or it can be done badly. If you weren't convinced by this particular example, then the author hadn't prepared the reveal well enough ... for you, at least.

*Waving frantically* Hi Will! Good to see you here (I haven't checked your blog lately, not been on Wordpress much unfortunately). The plot ending was the last straw, really. I was going on with the read hoping that, as some of the good reviews suggested, the ending would redeem all my "uh?" moments. Sadly it didn't happen. For me :)

PS: is the forum having problems?
 

kuwisdelu

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Ever read "An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge"?

Possibly one of the most famous, and well-done, examples of what you're citing. And incredibly bitter and cutting because of how well it was done (Bierce was a fucking genius, though)......sounds like what you read was a shitty and poorly executed raping of that story and multiple others....

That was my first thought.

But then, I thought it was stupid and cheap even when "well-done".
 

Once!

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I'm not t all sure I'd call this a technique. It sounds more like a tired plot that was overdone a hundred yeas ago. Not everything can be done well. Some things will inevitably fail regardless of how well the writer des them, simply because they're not only overdone, they never we a good idea.

If we all thought like that we would have no plots left that someone wouldn't say had been done before. Boy meets girl? Nation A goes to war with Nation B? Hero fights monster?

Yes, it sounds like a tired plot and a lazy way to end a book. But we can't tell that for sure from a second-hand description. Nor can we say that there will never be a well-written reveal using similar ideas.

Let's see ... Shakespeare's "A midsummer night's dream", Coleridge's "Xanadu", The Wizard of Oz, Inception, the Matrix, Do Androids dream of electric sheep?
 

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"An Occurrance At Owl Creek Bridge" is really good, though. But when I first read it, there was the not-expecting-it thing, too.

Also, and this seems to matter to me--it's short. It's not a whole novel. A novel is more of an investment for the reader, and the disappointment can outweigh the pleasure of a clever ending.
 
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DjentlemanJoe

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A truly brilliant plot twist is done so that it is obvious throughout - so obvious and yet we don't see it.

If a plot twist is written by not giving us the information in the first place then it isn't really a twist at all - It's just annoying.
 

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A truly brilliant plot twist is done so that it is obvious throughout - so obvious and yet we don't see it.

If a plot twist is written by not giving us the information in the first place then it isn't really a twist at all - It's just annoying.

Example two will make me never read you again

But maybe the boon i the OP's post, the author thought she had? (grasping here) Maybe there were hints? I am really bad at hints. Something to be aware of it you rely on hints....there will be people who do NOT get them. As long as you are good with that...
 

DjentlemanJoe

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Example two will make me never read you again

But maybe the boon i the OP's post, the author thought she had? (grasping here) Maybe there were hints? I am really bad at hints. Something to be aware of it you rely on hints....there will be people who do NOT get them. As long as you are good with that...

Indeed.

I think there's also an inherent difference too between a plot twist and a plot that leaves you to think.

I think sometimes authors want to achieve a plot with an open ending or situation, and end up instead trying to create a plot twist with missing information, rather than intentionally not answering a question in order to leave the reader able to make their own conclusions.
 

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The story wasn't actually edited, from what I assume, as there is no mention of an editor. It was proofread by a few people though, and I'm surprised (and disappointed, because I know some of them by name and they're quite "popular" in the circle) that no one actually mentioned anything.

One reason why I don't read self published stuff unless it's by an author I already know or it comes highly recommended by someone whose taste I really trust. But my reading speed is so slow these days that I don't have enough time to read all the stuff I'm reasonably sure will be good, or at least professionally edited.

Sounds like you got a bum steer from some people whose taste you usually share, though. It happens. Probably just chalk it up to being one of those things, unless it becomes a repeated issue with this crowd. It may be that there was something else about the book that they liked so much that the flaw didn't even register. We can all be pretty forgiving of books that hit most of our buttons the right way but have a plot hole you can drive a truck in.

On an aside, it is pretty unfortunate that an honest and respectfully worded review that's less than stellar now invites harassment and trolling.
 
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Lady Ice

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It depends for me. Sometimes it's not always about the plot twist. The car crash one sounds like it could have been interesting if it was executed well, though I would have hoped that the writer would weave that theme into the rest of the novel/leave little clues that all was not as it seemed.

There's one play/film that has a great double twist. I'd remembered the twist but forgotten the double so gasped along with the rest of the audience.

I don't mind about whether the twist is guessable or not but it has to come out of the logic of the world and the possibilities that the world has that have been set up. Being able to surprise readers organically is much more satisfying than to come up with something they couldn't have guessed.
 

MagicWriter

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To make it very short, the book starts with a car crash against a tree. One of the passengers survives and goes on with his life. Meets a girl and gets married, etc. etc. In the end, you find out that the guy "lived" that stuff while on the brink of death, still at the crash scene, and that his wife was actually the passenger of another car that got smashed in the crash. I've gone back to the accident scene, and there is absolutely no mention of another car at all.

I'd have felt happier with the ending if the author had mentioned that the driver had swerved and smashed into the tree to avoid another car (he was under the influence), but as it reads, he just "misjudged a curve". As a reader, I feel that was misleading, and that the "big reveal" was therefore rather "meh". There's something about not picking up clues that make you go all "aaaaaah I've got it now!" at the end, but if you can't even get the chance to guess, what's the point?

This is bittersweet. I like the story, but the execution has to be just right. Reminds me of M. Knight Shyamalan's "The Village". Doesn't mean you shouldn't do this, but you may want to read other works that are similar to what you are trying to do in this story, see how they were executed. Ask a lot of questions and write them down while you read, how did you feel at the end, what did you wish you knew to prepare you for the end? You'll want to address your own questions in the work you are writing. Sounds like a very interesting story, good luck!

And here is Ebert's review of The Village:
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-village-2004
 

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I agree with most of the other replies. This can be cool if done well. Much like the whole "it was all a dream" thing, I usually hate endings where it's revealed that the characters were actually dead/in comas/dying and nothing was real, but it can work. There's a movie with Anne Hathaway (I won't say the title to avoid spoiling it) that I felt pulled this off pretty well. It was done in a way that caught me off guard and was moving enough to make me cry.

The best way to do this is to provide plenty of clues that could mean something entirely different. So that in hindsight, it all makes perfect sense but still wasn't something you easily could have guessed. I have such respect for writers who can truly surprise me this way! So many twists are obvious and expected, and that gets old.
 

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I saw a movie that was eerily similar to the one you are describing. It was a good story until the very end, when it was revealed that it was just a dream, and the wife the male protagonist had pursued tirelessly was in fact a total stranger, the wife of another man in another car. Then it became a "what a boatload of piece of xyz", on my part, lol. So no, I will not touch another book by that author. There is an unspoken rule, a delicate trust between authors and readers, that once lost, can never be regained, and the "ha, see, I got you, you idiot!" trick thrown by the author definitely broke that trust. Now, if the woman were, say, the male protagonist's long lost girlfriend, whom he unexpectedly reunited at the point of accident, and he constructed this dream before he died to fulfill an unfinished dream, that would have been different. A total stranger, and he planted her as his wife? So unreal!
 
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Axl Prose

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Nothing to add but I really enjoyed all the responses. I have something in the back of my head I would love to try, and I think if done right it would be killer. But man, there really is a fine line there. I don't think I have the patience or skill to try it yet, but you all gave lots of food for thought.

Somebody mentioned Sixth Sense. That is about as good as it can be done. First time I saw it I was like, what, he's dead? But then you go back and see how he never interacts or talks with others and is pretty much ignored by everyone but the kid. Very thought out.

On the other side, somebody mentioned Signs, which is a good counter, but The Village is an even better bad example. At least in Signs it was just a bad, corny way to kill the bad guy. More of a deus ex machine in my eyes. But The Village, that is plot twist to explain everything. But without any clues given, and really just doesn't make that much sense. Seriously, they are all living in some kind of park, and the evil beast is them dressing up to keep people from leaving. Came out of nowhere, and I don't mean that in a good way.
 

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The story the OP described is a classic example of an 'ass pull.' The writer creates a twist ending with absolutely no foundation anywhere in the story. Instead relying on coincidence or some undisclosed piece of information.

I love plot twists, both as a writer and as a reader. As others have mentioned, the key is to provide clues throughout. It's just fine to hint at the wrong conclusion so long as you never come out and state it.

I once wrote a story about a ruler who'd lost his wife a long time ago and had a son who was approaching adulthood. He decides to arrange a marriage with a princess who is a few years older than his son. The ruler talks his decision over with an advisor who worries about how the son will react. The father admits he will not be happy, but will understand duty and that some times arranged marriages are necessary.

We see the girl's perspective on the match, she is nervous, but hopes it will be a good union and wants to make a good impression on the family.

Of course the readers assume the son is the one betrothed, but it's actually the father. The twist worked because when you went back everything that was said could apply to either the father or the son.

Now, if instead it had been stated that the son and princess were going to marry. And the son spent the entire novel trying to come to grips with this, then at the very end had the father suddenly fall in love with her. All with no previous suggestion of any feeling or interest, that would be an ass pull and a very unsatisfying end.

Twists are great, but they have to be set up, and have to make sense.
 

Dancre

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Sometimes writers write from the character's pov. The guy didn't know his wife was in the other car when he crashed, so how could he know she was dead or even crashed? You're looking through the character's eyes and you see what he sees.

Have you ever seen the movie Oculus with Karen Gillan? It was out earlier this year in which a mirror is like a gateway to demons who kill people. We only get a small background of the mirror, but are never told why it does what it does or if it finds its victims or is it random. The reason why is because we are seeing from the characters povs. we only know what they know which is why it increases the creep factor. THe rest is shrouded.

In the same way, the character probably didn't know his wife was in the other car so we don't know she is in the car till the end. If the character only sees his car crashing and then goes into the dream state, he doesn't know his wife is in the other car which means we don't know she is in the car. Does that make sense? It's a great writing trick.

Just curious, as you all have more experience than me...

I have just finished this book, and the whole experience has been a massive disappointment on many levels, so that's why I'm asking for other opinions, I think I'm a little biased and require some objectivity.

To make it very short, the book starts with a car crash against a tree. One of the passengers survives and goes on with his life. Meets a girl and gets married, etc. etc. In the end, you find out that the guy "lived" that stuff while on the brink of death, still at the crash scene, and that his wife was actually the passenger of another car that got smashed in the crash. I've gone back to the accident scene, and there is absolutely no mention of another car at all.

I'd have felt happier with the ending if the author had mentioned that the driver had swerved and smashed into the tree to avoid another car (he was under the influence), but as it reads, he just "misjudged a curve". As a reader, I feel that was misleading, and that the "big reveal" was therefore rather "meh". There's something about not picking up clues that make you go all "aaaaaah I've got it now!" at the end, but if you can't even get the chance to guess, what's the point?

Just wondering if deliberately omitting details is common practice among authors, or if there really is a certain craft in building up a plot to get a big reveal and that this author kind of failed meaning another disappointment to add to my list.

Don't get me wrong, though, the disappointments caused lots of thinking, and there was lots of learning done in the process :)
 
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